2015-2016 NBA Thread

[Jenksismyhero]

You guys are nuts if you think Gar is going anywhere. The team is without 4 of its 6 most important players. Easy, built in excuse.

[Dick Allen]

Google Bulls will continue free fall, and get behind the paywall for Haughs column today. Sometimes I think he's a dufus, but I think he nailed it today.

[Chisoxfn]

Google Bulls will continue free fall, and get behind the paywall for Haughs column today. Sometimes I think he's a dufus, but I think he nailed it today.

Yep. That was a great article. Just finished reading it.

[Dick Allen]

Yep. That was a great article. Just finished reading it.

I thought the line the minute they fired Thibs made one of the most coachable teams one of the most uncoachable was genius.

[Jenksismyhero]

I thought the line the minute they fired Thibs made one of the most coachable teams one of the most uncoachable was genius.

 

I mean, that's just revisionist history. The team stopped listening to Thibs that last year. They were tired of him. I loved Thibs and what he did, but it was time for a change.

 

I love how Haugh and others keep saying "we need change just for change!" while at the same time claiming change for change with Thibs was a terrible decision. Which is it?

[Chisoxfn]

I mean, that's just revisionist history. The team stopped listening to Thibs that last year. They were tired of him. I loved Thibs and what he did, but it was time for a change.

 

I love how Haugh and others keep saying "we need change just for change!" while at the same time claiming change for change with Thibs was a terrible decision. Which is it?

Gar wanted us to believe they stopped listening to Thibs last year, but I don't believe that for a second. As far as I can tell, they haven't ever even started listening to Fred.

 

By the way, I do agree, that injuries have played a pretty critical role in this losing streak. Wilbon was on about a day ago saying the roster isn't near as bad as the record and other teams feel Bulls roster is talented. But he went on to say we have major leadership issues (and ultimately I also think we have major coaching issues to go along with the injuries).

 

Butler

MJD

Mirotic

Noah

 

Plus: Some games missed by Rose, Pau, Hinrich, Aaron Brooks.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

I mean, that's just revisionist history. The team stopped listening to Thibs that last year. They were tired of him. I loved Thibs and what he did, but it was time for a change.

 

I love how Haugh and others keep saying "we need change just for change!" while at the same time claiming change for change with Thibs was a terrible decision. Which is it?

 

What was reported all last season is that Gar let the team know prior to the season was Thibs was a lame duck and they really needed to listen to themselves, and not Thibs. Now that has come home to roost

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

The Bulls really are in a crappy position right now.

 

Making the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed and losing in the first round does this team no good. Frankly, I'd start rebuilding now and trade anyone that has any semblance of value.

[southsider2k5]

Gar wanted us to believe they stopped listening to Thibs last year, but I don't believe that for a second. As far as I can tell, they haven't ever even started listening to Fred.

 

By the way, I do agree, that injuries have played a pretty critical role in this losing streak. Wilbon was on about a day ago saying the roster isn't near as bad as the record and other teams feel Bulls roster is talented. But he went on to say we have major leadership issues (and ultimately I also think we have major coaching issues to go along with the injuries).

 

Butler

MJD

Mirotic

Noah

 

Plus: Some games missed by Rose, Pau, Hinrich, Aaron Brooks.

 

 

This is absolutely true. If you think about it what you think other teams around the NBA would look like if you removed their best player, plus a couple of other starters, and key reserves?

 

I can also agree with the second part as this team, even when it was close to healthy, had way too many nights where it didn't show up.

 

Look, I am of the opinion that the bridge to Thibs was done. It was burnt down and over. I get why the coaching move was made. But nothing about Fred Hoiberg has impressed me, even with the obvious injury caveats included.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Gar wanted us to believe they stopped listening to Thibs last year, but I don't believe that for a second. As far as I can tell, they haven't ever even started listening to Fred.

 

By the way, I do agree, that injuries have played a pretty critical role in this losing streak. Wilbon was on about a day ago saying the roster isn't near as bad as the record and other teams feel Bulls roster is talented. But he went on to say we have major leadership issues (and ultimately I also think we have major coaching issues to go along with the injuries).

 

Butler

MJD

Mirotic

Noah

 

Plus: Some games missed by Rose, Pau, Hinrich, Aaron Brooks.

 

 

They clearly stopped last year. At least, parts of the team. Gasol never bought in to the way Thibs did things. I doubt Mirotic or McDermott did either. Guys didn't exactly clamor for him to stay.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Gar wanted us to believe they stopped listening to Thibs last year, but I don't believe that for a second. As far as I can tell, they haven't ever even started listening to Fred.

 

By the way, I do agree, that injuries have played a pretty critical role in this losing streak. Wilbon was on about a day ago saying the roster isn't near as bad as the record and other teams feel Bulls roster is talented. But he went on to say we have major leadership issues (and ultimately I also think we have major coaching issues to go along with the injuries).

 

Butler

MJD

Mirotic

Noah

 

Plus: Some games missed by Rose, Pau, Hinrich, Aaron Brooks.

 

 

They also don't have any dogs on that team. They really have no leaders that take over a lockerroom and decide how things are going to go. Derrick can't speak. Pau chooses not to. Everyone laughed when Butler attempted to try. Noah is gone and nobody else matters.

[southsider2k5]

They clearly stopped last year. At least, parts of the team. Gasol never bought in to the way Thibs did things. I doubt Mirotic or McDermott did either. Guys didn't exactly clamor for him to stay.

 

I agree. There was definitely a significant stretch where the team mailed it in last season.

[whitesoxfan99]

They clearly stopped last year. At least, parts of the team. Gasol never bought in to the way Thibs did things. I doubt Mirotic or McDermott did either. Guys didn't exactly clamor for him to stay.

 

Well Mirotic has regressed this year and McDermott is still a net negative every time he steps on to the court so the coaching change seems to have done them both a lot of good.

[Dick Allen]

Games missed last season, 50 wins.

Pau 4

Butler 17

Noah 15

Dunleavy 19

Gibson 20

Hinrich 16

Rose 31

McDermott 46

Snell 10

 

 

If they tuned out Thibs, they haven't tuned in anyone this year. If it was time for Thibs, it's time for the Mayor and his boy Gar.

 

Gar really needs to go. He forced out Ron Adams, now with a ring at GS. Wouldn't let Thibs hire the strength guy from Houston, now with SA. I read when Thibs was hired, it was a JR pick. Pax wanted Collins, Gar wanted Mike Brown or Lawrence Frank.

 

 

It wasn't time to change the coach. It was time to change the players. The team isn't good enough. There isn't a coach in the world that would make this team healthy and championship caliber.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Chisoxfn]

This is absolutely true. If you think about it what you think other teams around the NBA would look like if you removed their best player, plus a couple of other starters, and key reserves?

 

I can also agree with the second part as this team, even when it was close to healthy, had way too many nights where it didn't show up.

 

Look, I am of the opinion that the bridge to Thibs was done. It was burnt down and over. I get why the coaching move was made. But nothing about Fred Hoiberg has impressed me, even with the obvious injury caveats included.

Agree with everything you say. I think it is unfortunate that the bridge to Thibs was done though, because I feel Gar completely sabotaged him (and obviously by last postseason, Thibs had finally had enough and was going to start leaking stuff). On a sidenote, Taj might be out. Sounds like he's pretty beat up, but given how and what he plays through (same with Jimmy), I always wonder how the guys deal with Rose.

[Dick Allen]

Well Mirotic has regressed this year and McDermott is still a net negative every time he steps on to the court so the coaching change seems to have done them both a lot of good.

Butler and Noah developed into stars under Thibs. They might have developed into stars if Hoiberg coached the last 5 years, we obviously will never know. Mirotic's regressing though, and he was one guy they assumed would blossom away from Thibs, is depressing. Would the rent a point guard have worked under any other coach?

[Chisoxfn]

They clearly stopped last year. At least, parts of the team. Gasol never bought in to the way Thibs did things. I doubt Mirotic or McDermott did either. Guys didn't exactly clamor for him to stay.

What benefit was there to clammor for him to stay? Jimmy has made it clear he was a believer. Rose and Thibs were always close and I don't recall Taj or Noah being happy. I don't know that Mirotic would know any better and while Doug might have been upset he was hurt so it is a moot point (and Thibs supported Doug's drafting). Pau is the one outlier who did not like Thibs (and it isn't a shock since Pau is pretty low key and largely used to being coached by Phil who was very low key in the grand scheme of things).

[whitesoxfan99]

Also, while injuries definitely are impacting this team, the fact is even when their record was good this team was basically playing like a .500 basketball team in terms of their efficiency margins. Their best month of they year in terms of win-loss record was November and they actually got outscored by their opponents that month. They won a lot of close games (7 of their 8 wins were by 6 points or less) and only one of their losses was a game they had a chance to win so they were never as good as their record indicated. This has been a mediocre at best team from day 1 this year and now that they are having injuries they have gone from mediocre to downright bad.

[Chisoxfn]

Games missed last season, 50 wins.

Pau 4

Butler 17

Noah 15

Dunleavy 19

Gibson 20

Hinrich 16

Rose 31

McDermott 46

Snell 10

 

 

If they tuned out Thibs, they haven't tuned in anyone this year. If it was time for Thibs, it's time for the Mayor and his boy Gar.

 

Gar really needs to go. He forced out Ron Adams, now with a ring at GS. Wouldn't let Thibs hire the strength guy from Houston, now with SA. I read when Thibs was hired, it was a JR pick. Pax wanted Collins, Gar wanted Mike Brown or Lawrence Frank.

 

 

It wasn't time to change the coach. It was time to change the players. The team isn't good enough. There isn't a coach in the world that would make this team healthy and championship caliber.

Yeah - I remember when I say who Gar's coaching picks were and I was like, it all makes sense. He wanted to the coaches who were push overs and controllable. I wouldn't have had an issue with Pax's choice in Collins and well I was glad JR won out. And I agree, this team has battled injuries forever (and given the injury track record you should expect it) and it wasn't until early March last year when they hit 25 losses.

[Dick Allen]

Bottom line is Gar got exactly what he wanted, and it blew up in his face. He needs to go. Someone else needs to clean his mess.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Dick Allen

[whitesoxfan99]

What benefit was there to clammor for him to stay? Jimmy has made it clear he was a believer. Rose and Thibs were always close and I don't recall Taj or Noah being happy. I don't know that Mirotic would know any better and while Doug might have been upset he was hurt so it is a moot point (and Thibs supported Doug's drafting). Pau is the one outlier who did not like Thibs (and it isn't a shock since Pau is pretty low key and largely used to being coached by Phil who was very low key in the grand scheme of things).

 

The funny thing is Pau played better under Thibs last year than he did his last few years in LA (some of that was actually being healthy) and he hasn't played any better this year under Hoidberg than he did last year.

[Chisoxfn]

Also, while injuries definitely are impacting this team, the fact is even when their record was good this team was basically playing like a .500 basketball team in terms of their efficiency margins. Their best month of they year in terms of win-loss record was November and they actually got outscored by their opponents that month. They won a lot of close games (7 of their 8 wins were by 6 points or less) and only one of their losses was a game they had a chance to win so they were never as good as their record indicated. This has been a mediocre at best team from day 1 this year and now that they are having injuries they have gone from mediocre to downright bad.

The problem I have, is while they might have played mediocre, the roster, at the start of the season was far better than mediocre. The combination of poor fit and poor coaching have just made things worse (to go along with injuries). Nothing I've seen from Fred makes me think he's a good coach, but I'll also admit he's in a tough spot. But when it comes to Gar, he made his bed when he came out strongly and talked about how Fred was the guy who was going to maximize the talent, etc, and this team has done nothing but got worse and I don't see how JR ignores it.

 

I don't think Gar is someone JR will "protect". Pax, absolutely. I think it is unlikely Pax gets fired.

 

An interesting alternative is whether Hoiberg would move into the front office (vs. coach). I.e., do the Bulls fire Gar, have Pax take on greater reigns, and have Hoiberg become GM?

[Jenksismyhero]

What benefit was there to clammor for him to stay? Jimmy has made it clear he was a believer. Rose and Thibs were always close and I don't recall Taj or Noah being happy. I don't know that Mirotic would know any better and while Doug might have been upset he was hurt so it is a moot point (and Thibs supported Doug's drafting). Pau is the one outlier who did not like Thibs (and it isn't a shock since Pau is pretty low key and largely used to being coached by Phil who was very low key in the grand scheme of things).

 

I'm dubious about Rose and Thibs' relationship. A couple of weeks ago Rose said he hadn't spoken to Thibs since he was let go. What's that tell you? I think Taj is the only guy that was vocal about liking Thibs. Even Jimmy to a certain extent seemed to tire of him. Noah definitely. And Pau was probably never a fan based on style of play.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

The funny thing is Pau played better under Thibs last year than he did his last few years in LA (some of that was actually being healthy) and he hasn't played any better this year under Hoidberg than he did last year.

Yeah. When I say didn't like, I think pau had issues with Thibs style, but he also benefited from it. I think Butler would take over this team, but you do have the issue with Rose being there. If Rose was gone, I kind of think Jimmy could be that true leader, but with Rose here, it is that uncomfortable...if Jimmy says something Rose still has some of that persona from his past. Makes it awkward.

 

I'm interested to see how Rose does with Jimmy out though (do we see more progress with him and do we see more of that "alpha" come out?

[Jenksismyhero]

The funny thing is Pau played better under Thibs last year than he did his last few years in LA (some of that was actually being healthy) and he hasn't played any better this year under Hoidberg than he did last year.

 

Pau sulked his way through those last years in LA. I don't give much credit to Thibs for that. He also became the #1 option on offense for the most part last year. He could take 18 footers all day long under Thibs.

 

But of course that was the problem come playoff time. They had no other options because Thibs sucked as an offensive coach.