2015-2016 NBA Thread

[Jenksismyhero]

Yeah. When I say didn't like, I think pau had issues with Thibs style, but he also benefited from it. I think Butler would take over this team, but you do have the issue with Rose being there. If Rose was gone, I kind of think Jimmy could be that true leader, but with Rose here, it is that uncomfortable...if Jimmy says something Rose still has some of that persona from his past. Makes it awkward.

 

I'm interested to see how Rose does with Jimmy out though (do we see more progress with him and do we see more of that "alpha" come out?

 

Pssh, f*** no. He just sat out a game for being "sore."

[Chisoxfn]

I'm dubious about Rose and Thibs' relationship. A couple of weeks ago Rose said he hadn't spoken to Thibs since he was let go. What's that tell you? I think Taj is the only guy that was vocal about liking Thibs. Even Jimmy to a certain extent seemed to tire of him. Noah definitely. And Pau was probably never a fan based on style of play.

IIRC, Butler was talking to Thibs in the off-season. So I don't buy it. I also have heard from people that Pau was pretty much the one primary player who was anti-Thibs (but not like he hated him, just wasn't 100% on board with everything Thibs did).

 

I know Rose made those comments, but I think that is just more how Rose is. Too many times have we heard interviews of Rose and his loyalty and essentially he'll always back whomever he is with and as a result, I think it has more to do with Rose not wanting to stir the pot, etc, than anything else. I've never ever heard about an issue between Rose and Thibs. Rose & Gar, yes, but not Rose & Thibs.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Butler and Noah developed into stars under Thibs. They might have developed into stars if Hoiberg coached the last 5 years, we obviously will never know. Mirotic's regressing though, and he was one guy they assumed would blossom away from Thibs, is depressing. Would the rent a point guard have worked under any other coach?

 

 

Noah was never a star. Worst DPOY in league history.

[Chisoxfn]

Pssh, f*** no. He just sat out a game for being "sore."

You know, of all people, I just live with it from him. As long as he plays aggressive when he's in. Right now, he's on pace for I think 70 games (*knock on wood*). Given where he's coming from, that is a good thing. And I still stick to my theory that post ASB Rose will be the best Rose anyone has seen post surgery. I'm curious if Butler being out will spark it or not. Reality is, only way Bulls don't keep losing is if Rose really puts this team on the back (something he has not really had to done since he went out with his initial injury).

 

Does anyone think all these struggles make it more likely that the Bulls resign Noah (the true leader). Noah should be far more of a value too, given the fact that he's coming off injury.

[Jenksismyhero]

You know, of all people, I just live with it from him. As long as he plays aggressive when he's in. Right now, he's on pace for I think 70 games (*knock on wood*). Given where he's coming from, that is a good thing. And I still stick to my theory that post ASB Rose will be the best Rose anyone has seen post surgery. I'm curious if Butler being out will spark it or not. Reality is, only way Bulls don't keep losing is if Rose really puts this team on the back (something he has not really had to done since he went out with his initial injury).

 

Does anyone think all these struggles make it more likely that the Bulls resign Noah (the true leader). Noah should be far more of a value too, given the fact that he's coming off injury.

 

I love Jo, but he's not a complete player, and it absolutely kills this team. It's 4 on 5 with him out there, even when healthy. They need to look elsewhere. Same with Pau. The rumors about resigning him for 20 million is absurd. Find the next superstar to pair with Butler. Hope Portis develops into a Taj-like contributor. Hope McDermott can hit open shots. Hope Mirotic plays with a brain. And then draft well.

[Chisoxfn]

I love Jo, but he's not a complete player, and it absolutely kills this team. It's 4 on 5 with him out there, even when healthy. They need to look elsewhere. Same with Pau. The rumors about resigning him for 20 million is absurd. Find the next superstar to pair with Butler. Hope Portis develops into a Taj-like contributor. Hope McDermott can hit open shots. Hope Mirotic plays with a brain. And then draft well.

I figure that rumor from windhorst had to be the Bulls trying to gain leverage for a potential Pau trade.

[southsider2k5]

Agree with everything you say. I think it is unfortunate that the bridge to Thibs was done though, because I feel Gar completely sabotaged him (and obviously by last postseason, Thibs had finally had enough and was going to start leaking stuff). On a sidenote, Taj might be out. Sounds like he's pretty beat up, but given how and what he plays through (same with Jimmy), I always wonder how the guys deal with Rose.

 

From the outside looking in, it is tough to call. Management wanted him to make changes that he refused to make. They wanted him to get an offensive assistant, which he refused. It isn't hard to squint to see what working with a guy like Thibs would be like. Obviously the Bulls were pretty bitter with him at the end, but that didn't happen for no reason.

[Dick Allen]

I love Jo, but he's not a complete player, and it absolutely kills this team. It's 4 on 5 with him out there, even when healthy. They need to look elsewhere. Same with Pau. The rumors about resigning him for 20 million is absurd. Find the next superstar to pair with Butler. Hope Portis develops into a Taj-like contributor. Hope McDermott can hit open shots. Hope Mirotic plays with a brain. And then draft well.

For the Bulls to be a championship team in the next 4 or 5 years, they are either going to have to miss the playoffs and get unbelievably lucky in the lottery, or sign a free agent star. You would think signing the free agent star would be easier, but I don't know. I just think you decrease your odds of signing a star when Gar walks into the room, considering with the cap, the money is all the same.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Chisoxfn]

For the Bulls to be a championship team in the next 4 or 5 years, they are either going to have to miss the playoffs and get unbelievably lucky in the lottery, or sign a free agent star. You would think signing the free agent star would be easier, but I don't know. I just think you decrease your odds of signing a star when Gar walks into the room, considering with the cap, the money is all the same.

I agree on all counts. Getting a star is the key (in short-term) and to me that is much easier to do via FA than draft (given where Bulls stand). I wonder if Bulls can swing a deal with Sixers for Nerlens. There are young players out there who might be on the block.

[soxsoxsoxsox]

I just think you decrease your odds of signing a star when Gar walks into the room

 

GAR hanging with MELO must have been fun

[DBAHO]

So non Bulls related, Houston lost pretty badly to Portland last night, Howard, Harden, Morey and Bickerstaff all had a meeting after the game and now Dwight Howard is apparently getting shopped.

 

I think Howard probably told em it wasn't working, and he can't play with Harden as the Alpha Dog anymore and he was going to use his ETO.

 

My guess is if he's dealt, he ends up in Brooklyn for Lopez + something, or to Miami for Whiteside and bad contracts potentially.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I agree on all counts. Getting a star is the key (in short-term) and to me that is much easier to do via FA than draft (given where Bulls stand). I wonder if Bulls can swing a deal with Sixers for Nerlens. There are young players out there who might be on the block.

 

Nerlens Noel is the guy I wanted all along. I don't think Noel is a good fit next to Okafor, and if Embiid comes back next year, they'd have a logjam of poor spacing. I wonder if Noel could be had for Niko + first rounder. Noel would be a good fit next to Gasol and Portis.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Nerlens Noel is the guy I wanted all along. I don't think Noel is a good fit next to Okafor, and if Embiid comes back next year, they'd have a logjam of poor spacing. I wonder if Noel could be had for Niko + first rounder. Noel would be a good fit next to Gasol and Portis.

 

 

Gasol is going to be gone though.

[bmags]

Lopez + something is hilarious considering the team. Picks? Jarret Jack?

[bmags]

Nerlens Noel is the guy I wanted all along. I don't think Noel is a good fit next to Okafor, and if Embiid comes back next year, they'd have a logjam of poor spacing. I wonder if Noel could be had for Niko + first rounder. Noel would be a good fit next to Gasol and Portis.

 

Why would Philly rely on Embiid coming back?

[thxfrthmmrs]

Why would Philly rely on Embiid coming back?

 

Even if Embiid doesn't come back, they eventually need to break up Okafor and Noel. They just aren't a good fit next to each other from I what saw earlier this year.

[Jose Abreu]

Looks like Houston will trade Howard

[bmags]

Hard to remember how dominating Howard used to be. 2009-2011 was a long time ago now.

[Chisoxfn]

Anyone see Teddy Greenstein's piece in the trib?

 

Anyone want to bet that Gar or someone close pushed this piece for the Trib to try and stop the bleeding from the media (who is all up in arms with where the Bulls are) .

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baske...212-column.html

 

Some of Teddy's points are valid and clearly the roster with Taj out was awful, but still.

 

Lets not forget that the 2014 team, had Noah (who was playing studly, but by this point on one knee and getting ready to have a pretty serious off-season surgery) with Hinrich and DJ Augustin getting the bulk of the minutes at the starting spot. That Wizards team was athletic and on the climb and there were some tight games in between. I'd argue the Bulls lost to the better team and I was so amazed that the 2014 team was able to get seeded where it was (given the talent it had or rather, didn't have). To me, it is more evidence that coaching can help a ton with seeding in the regular season, but in best of 7 series, coaching, while still key (due to in-game adjustments) can't out-battle talent differentials like the one between the Wizards and Bulls. Reality was, Bulls couldn't really elevate there game any more and they ultimately had zero scorers on that team at all (I suppose Boozer was the closet thing to a scorer on that squad and he clearly was on his last legs as evidenced by fact he played one more year with Lakers before dissapearing).

 

Did Boozer retire or just decide he didn't want to be a role player (as I'd still think he could easily come off of plenty of teams benches, including, at this point, the Bulls bench).

[ozzfest]

The problem I have, is while they might have played mediocre, the roster, at the start of the season was far better than mediocre. The combination of poor fit and poor coaching have just made things worse (to go along with injuries). Nothing I've seen from Fred makes me think he's a good coach, but I'll also admit he's in a tough spot. But when it comes to Gar, he made his bed when he came out strongly and talked about how Fred was the guy who was going to maximize the talent, etc, and this team has done nothing but got worse and I don't see how JR ignores it.

 

I don't think Gar is someone JR will "protect". Pax, absolutely. I think it is unlikely Pax gets fired.

 

An interesting alternative is whether Hoiberg would move into the front office (vs. coach). I.e., do the Bulls fire Gar, have Pax take on greater reigns, and have Hoiberg become GM?

Hoiberg was the GM that took two point guards ahead of Steph Curry. He drafted Johnny Flynn and Ricky Rubio. I don't think I want him running the show...Soxtalk will eventually realize that John Paxson is the head of the snake. As long as Paxson is still running anything. The Bulls have no shot.

[Jenksismyhero]

Hoiberg was the GM that took two point guards ahead of Steph Curry. He drafted Johnny Flynn and Ricky Rubio. I don't think I want him running the show...Soxtalk will eventually realize that John Paxson is the head of the snake. As long as Paxson is still running anything. The Bulls have no shot.

 

Wasn't that Kahn?

[bmags]

Yes, it was specifically not Hoiberg. I don't know how anyone makes that mistake.

[bmags]

Anyone see Teddy Greenstein's piece in the trib?

 

Anyone want to bet that Gar or someone close pushed this piece for the Trib to try and stop the bleeding from the media (who is all up in arms with where the Bulls are) .

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baske...212-column.html

 

Some of Teddy's points are valid and clearly the roster with Taj out was awful, but still.

 

Lets not forget that the 2014 team, had Noah (who was playing studly, but by this point on one knee and getting ready to have a pretty serious off-season surgery) with Hinrich and DJ Augustin getting the bulk of the minutes at the starting spot. That Wizards team was athletic and on the climb and there were some tight games in between. I'd argue the Bulls lost to the better team and I was so amazed that the 2014 team was able to get seeded where it was (given the talent it had or rather, didn't have). To me, it is more evidence that coaching can help a ton with seeding in the regular season, but in best of 7 series, coaching, while still key (due to in-game adjustments) can't out-battle talent differentials like the one between the Wizards and Bulls. Reality was, Bulls couldn't really elevate there game any more and they ultimately had zero scorers on that team at all (I suppose Boozer was the closet thing to a scorer on that squad and he clearly was on his last legs as evidenced by fact he played one more year with Lakers before dissapearing).

 

Did Boozer retire or just decide he didn't want to be a role player (as I'd still think he could easily come off of plenty of teams benches, including, at this point, the Bulls bench).

 

Also remember that Noah entered that series on basically one leg that led to that surgery.

[southsider2k5]

Hoiberg was the GM that took two point guards ahead of Steph Curry. He drafted Johnny Flynn and Ricky Rubio. I don't think I want him running the show...Soxtalk will eventually realize that John Paxson is the head of the snake. As long as Paxson is still running anything. The Bulls have no shot.

 

Hoiberg was the GM? What?

[Dick Allen]

Also remember that Noah entered that series on basically one leg that led to that surgery.

Yeah,blaming losses now on injury, LMAO. They have been hurt ever since Rose's MVP year. Even with minutes restrictions. Even without Thibs. Noah used to get hurt before Thibs was ever there.

 

 

What I don't get about Greenstein and anyone else who thinks Thibs being gone had to happen, how can you say that, but come up with excuses this season? They had the coach they wanted. They had the roster they wanted, and now it's worse than ever. Even their players are saying they are losing games they used to win. Taj getting hurt? Is that something new? He gets hurt every season. If you aren't going to get rid of Gar/Pax, you must get rid of Hoiberg.