2015-2016 NBA Thread

[LDF]

Wasn't firing Thibs supposed to fix the chemistry? Oops. Chemistry is just something people point to when people win. Teams that loved each other have sucked, teams that hated each other have been great, and vice versa. But if basketball players don't like playing with each other, and players can hate a guy but like playing on his team, team performance is going to take a hit. I think there are a lot more guys who would have liked to play with Michael Jordan than who wanted to hang out with him after a game. A beat guy noticed this when they were 10 over .500. This core quit. Many mentioned when the Bulls quit against Cleveland in the playoffs. Why was that a coaching issue and not a player or front office issue?

 

The problems with this team were misdiagnosed by those in postion to attempt to fix them. Moving forward, IMO, someone else should be making the diagnosis.

 

ahh yes it was...

 

but many things needed to go right, and it didn't.

rose needed to stay healthy, noah needed to play like old, the team was to gel, the coach needed to take these players to the next step.... etc .....

 

thibs was a great coach, even when the FO fired adams. the bulls invested in the wrong players while not fixing what needed to be fixed.

 

now, rebuild. the expiration is done. there is no time to fix this team, not when a majority of a salary cap in on 1 player who gets hurt.

 

now this is nothing against rose.... it is crap happens.

[Dick Allen]

Which is a long way of saying, it is everybody's fault, except the guys who have actually quit.

No, the players have been a problem. The Bulls FO hasn't seen them as a problem up until now. They seem shocked players got hurt with Thibs no longer there. Give Pau $20 million a year, bring back Noah, and see what happens. Guys will get hurt, the team will be mediocre. The Bulls need someone who isn't tied to these guys who can see the forest through the trees. That isn't Gar or Pax. I am not of the illusion the Bulls can be legit title contenders next season no matter what kind of mind they let make the decisions, but it needs to be someone else. This arrangement isn't working, hasn't worked, and won't work.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Nobody else will want Rose for his contract price.

He is, however, an expiring contract at that price in 2016-2017. That might make him much more movable than previous. Similarly, the dramatically expanding cap will help.

 

You might not get much for him, but facing reality - the Bulls have 3 guys, Rose, Gibson, and Mirotic, who are free agents at the end of 2016-2017. There will be the money to keep them but if this team is not a championship team, keeping them doesn't get you closer to one. Maybe you hold onto Mirotic and hope he takes a big step forward in year 3 compared to an honestly disappointing year 2, but the other 2 should be movable and Gibson might even bring a quality draft pick (late first/early 2nd) as a return.

[Chisoxfn]

If you mean resigning Gasol for 20 million a year, then sure.

No way. I don't see it.

[Chisoxfn]

This roster should have been WAY better than it was. At some point, the players should answer for this season.

Roster deserves blame but the front office imploded too. Everything is a mess and with the players imploding I have a hard time giving Hoiberg a pass either. Managing personalities and players was supposed to be his strong suit and he's failed miserably. It will never happen, but in a vaccum, everyone should be out. My ideal would be Paxson stays, hires a new GM, and they bring in a new coach, etc. It won't happen, I think all that goes is Gar, but I do think Hoiberg has a short leash.

 

Maybe Hoiberg saves us and goes back to college.

[LDF]

No, the players have been a problem. The Bulls FO hasn't seen them as a problem up until now. They seem shocked players got hurt with Thibs no longer there. Give Pau $20 million a year, bring back Noah, and see what happens. Guys will get hurt, the team will be mediocre. The Bulls need someone who isn't tied to these guys who can see the forest through the trees. That isn't Gar or Pax. I am not of the illusion the Bulls can be legit title contenders next season no matter what kind of mind they let make the decisions, but it needs to be someone else. This arrangement isn't working, hasn't worked, and won't work.

 

and i hate to compare them to another chi team, the sox. the same question was asked by jr to kw. this was even mention several yrs ago in the famious 3 yr plan interview, i think.

 

but the owners ask of keeping the core together and get a couple other players. and i beilieve kw said no. rebuild.

 

like that was a hard decision to make, but it was a right one, the same is now with the bulls.

[Chisoxfn]

If the guys don't like playing with each other, I see no reason not to make some major changes. Not blow it up Sixers style and be horrible for years, but I would hope the Reinsdorfs would be willing to bring someone in to make changes who isn't attached to any of these players. Something big is going to have to happen for the Bulls to really have a championship quality roster.

I'm trading for Anthony Davis (deal Buckets plus for him and hope New Orelans feels the heat to move him). Or whatever you need to. Bulls need to make a shakeup and I agree with you it would be best served with new blood and a new culture. Sad how fast and far the franchise has fallen.

[LDF]

He is, however, an expiring contract at that price in 2016-2017. That might make him much more movable than previous. Similarly, the dramatically expanding cap will help.

 

You might not get much for him, but facing reality - the Bulls have 3 guys, Rose, Gibson, and Mirotic, who are free agents at the end of 2016-2017. There will be the money to keep them but if this team is not a championship team, keeping them doesn't get you closer to one. Maybe you hold onto Mirotic and hope he takes a big step forward in year 3 compared to an honestly disappointing year 2, but the other 2 should be movable and Gibson might even bring a quality draft pick (late first/early 2nd) as a return.

 

and if the bulls don't want to hold onto miro, then a nice piece can be had for him via trade. same as with bulter. if the want to trade him.

[Chisoxfn]

Rose is absolutely moveable at this point. He's played pretty good basketball for a while now. Cap is going up.

[Balta1701]

Roster deserves blame but the front office imploded too. Everything is a mess and with the players imploding I have a hard time giving Hoiberg a pass either. Managing personalities and players was supposed to be his strong suit and he's failed miserably. It will never happen, but in a vaccum, everyone should be out. My ideal would be Paxson stays, hires a new GM, and they bring in a new coach, etc. It won't happen, I think all that goes is Gar, but I do think Hoiberg has a short leash.

 

Maybe Hoiberg saves us and goes back to college.

My guess based on my opinion of the ownership group is that they spend their FA money on someone who is neither gasol nor Durant and say this roster has one more good year coming, with no major changes other than that.

[Y2Jimmy0]

and i hate to compare them to another chi team, the sox. the same question was asked by jr to kw. this was even mention several yrs ago in the famious 3 yr plan interview, i think.

 

but the owners ask of keeping the core together and get a couple other players. and i beilieve kw said no. rebuild.

 

like that was a hard decision to make, but it was a right one, the same is now with the bulls.

 

 

Kenny Williams won a championship though. John Paxson has won 5 playoff series in 14 years. It's enough.

[Dick Allen]

I think the Bulls could trade Rose pretty easily. It depends on what they would get back. The cap is going up significantly. You wouldn't get a superstar return for him. But if they don't plan on maxing him, why not take what you can get?

[Chisoxfn]

Wasn't firing Thibs supposed to fix the chemistry? Oops. Chemistry is just something people point to when people win. Teams that loved each other have sucked, teams that hated each other have been great, and vice versa. But if basketball players don't like playing with each other, and players can hate a guy but like playing on his team, team performance is going to take a hit. I think there are a lot more guys who would have liked to play with Michael Jordan than who wanted to hang out with him after a game. A beat guy noticed this when they were 10 over .500. This core quit. Many mentioned when the Bulls quit against Cleveland in the playoffs. Why was that a coaching issue and not a player or front office issue?

 

The problems with this team were misdiagnosed by those in postion to attempt to fix them. Moving forward, IMO, someone else should be making the diagnosis.

Benching Noah before the season start was probably something Hoiberg does differently. Amazing how far this team fell when Noah got hurt (and no, Noah wasn't some great player anymore, but you have to believe to some extent, he was a guy that others followed and listened to).

 

I think Gasol absolutely has to go. Not because of his play, just because he's a squeaky wheel when it comes to practice, etc. He's a vet who will play through injuries, etc, but he isn't a tough practicer and doesn't exhitibt the habits you want your young players to look up to when the game isn't going on. If you put him on a team with another strong leader (kobe, etc), than it works well, in fact, he is the perfect counter to say a Kobe, but on this Bulls team, with no leader, ugly. This whole roster was ugly and Hoiberg was supposed to be the people coach and holy hell did things go wrong.

[Chisoxfn]

I think the Bulls could trade Rose pretty easily. It depends on what they would get back. The cap is going up significantly. You wouldn't get a superstar return for him. But if they don't plan on maxing him, why not take what you can get?

I fully agree with you. Guys a lot worse than him are going to get paid.

[Balta1701]

I think the Bulls could trade Rose pretty easily. It depends on what they would get back. The cap is going up significantly. You wouldn't get a superstar return for him. But if they don't plan on maxing him, why not take what you can get?

I'm just wondering if, given his contract, you could get a first round pick for him. Maybe if you took back a longer contract perhaps? With the cap space you wouldn't have to match the guy coming back if both teams had money available.

[Kyyle23]

I'm just wondering if, given his contract, you could get a first round pick for him. Maybe if you took back a longer contract perhaps? With the cap space you wouldn't have to match the guy coming back if both teams had money available.

 

*cough*lakers*cough*

[Chisoxfn]

I'm just wondering if, given his contract, you could get a first round pick for him. Maybe if you took back a longer contract perhaps? With the cap space you wouldn't have to match the guy coming back if both teams had money available.

Teams in basketball purgatory would take a shot on Drose. They would look at his improvement as the season progresses, being another year removed from the injury, etc, not to mention potential for a clean slate as reasons why they make the deal. They know they can't get anyone with the draw of Rose via FA so why not take a chance on a trade. Would the Knicks or Lakers do it, no, but if you are the Kings or some other franchise in a smaller market lacking enough stars to win, I see a lot of reasons why you take the chance on Rose, see if he takes off and you'd have his bird rights to offer more in FA (thus increasing odds you can resign him in the future if he continues to ascend).

 

Plus, all reports are people like playing with Rose. We don't here the same about Butler, but I've never heard anyone say a bad thing about Rose as a teammate (and he's never once said a bad thing about his teammates).

[Chisoxfn]

*cough*lakers*cough*

They probably have better odds at signing someone via FA. I think more likely destinations are smaller market teams who have to overpay via FA.

[Dick Allen]

Teams in basketball purgatory would take a shot on Drose. They would look at his improvement as the season progresses, being another year removed from the injury, etc, not to mention potential for a clean slate as reasons why they make the deal. They know they can't get anyone with the draw of Rose via FA so why not take a chance on a trade. Would the Knicks or Lakers do it, no, but if you are the Kings or some other franchise in a smaller market lacking enough stars to win, I see a lot of reasons why you take the chance on Rose, see if he takes off and you'd have his bird rights to offer more in FA (thus increasing odds you can resign him in the future if he continues to ascend).

 

Plus, all reports are people like playing with Rose. We don't here the same about Butler, but I've never heard anyone say a bad thing about Rose as a teammate (and he's never once said a bad thing about his teammates).

 

The Lakers could get really good next season. I wonder Thibs took over, if there would be any chance they would be willing to trade Russell and whatever garbage would be needed to make it work for Butler.

[Balta1701]

Teams in basketball purgatory would take a shot on Drose. They would look at his improvement as the season progresses, being another year removed from the injury, etc, not to mention potential for a clean slate as reasons why they make the deal. They know they can't get anyone with the draw of Rose via FA so why not take a chance on a trade. Would the Knicks or Lakers do it, no, but if you are the Kings or some other franchise in a smaller market lacking enough stars to win, I see a lot of reasons why you take the chance on Rose, see if he takes off and you'd have his bird rights to offer more in FA (thus increasing odds you can resign him in the future if he continues to ascend).

 

Plus, all reports are people like playing with Rose. We don't here the same about Butler, but I've never heard anyone say a bad thing about Rose as a teammate (and he's never once said a bad thing about his teammates).

The "Why Not" would also be "possibility of walking as a free agent after 2017"

[Kyyle23]

They probably have better odds at signing someone via FA. I think more likely destinations are smaller market teams who have to overpay via FA.

 

If I were the Bulls front office I would play on the fact that the Lakers are getting kind of desperate to get some names on the floor and that Derrick likes being in LA. Maybe steal Russell from them since Scott seems dead set on gluing him to the bench

[Chisoxfn]

If I were the Bulls front office I would play on the fact that the Lakers are getting kind of desperate to get some names on the floor and that Derrick likes being in LA. Maybe steal Russell from them since Scott seems dead set on gluing him to the bench

I think they get Thibs and I think it would be Butler they target. I wonder if you could get Russel plus their top pick and maybe a future pick. No idea whether either side would make that deal. Lots of hypotheticals.

[pettie4sox]

I am sure Thibs would have this team at least in the playoffs.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The Lakers could get really good next season. I wonder Thibs took over, if there would be any chance they would be willing to trade Russell and whatever garbage would be needed to make it work for Butler.

 

 

Thibodeau ends up in Minnesota in my opinion. That's the job he should hold out for.

[southsider2k5]

Benching Noah before the season start was probably something Hoiberg does differently. Amazing how far this team fell when Noah got hurt (and no, Noah wasn't some great player anymore, but you have to believe to some extent, he was a guy that others followed and listened to).

 

I think Gasol absolutely has to go. Not because of his play, just because he's a squeaky wheel when it comes to practice, etc. He's a vet who will play through injuries, etc, but he isn't a tough practicer and doesn't exhitibt the habits you want your young players to look up to when the game isn't going on. If you put him on a team with another strong leader (kobe, etc), than it works well, in fact, he is the perfect counter to say a Kobe, but on this Bulls team, with no leader, ugly. This whole roster was ugly and Hoiberg was supposed to be the people coach and holy hell did things go wrong.

 

Gasol is one of the guys that stands out to me as being done with this season. There was a sequence last night where he shot a three from the top of the key, missed it short, and even though he didn't chase for the offensive rebound, he was still the last guy down the floor. When he finally got down the floor, the ball came to his guy, who took a 20 foot jumper from the wing, and Gasol didn't even bother to get his hands up on. I am done with the guy. Sure he can put up numbers, but he isn't helping this team at all right now.