2015-2016 NBA Thread

[bmags]

He makes several good points. But I can't get my head around pushing it is the cause of the problem. DRose sat and sat and sat and sat, still sits for general soreness, and still gets hurt. If Noah sat out another week, maybe his shoulder doesn't get injured again, but I'm thinking sitting another week would cause that not to happen to be not so likely.

 

I do think using the Suns way may help a bit, but once guys start having a history of breaking down, I don't think there really is much that is going to stop it from continuing. If you want to play your best players 25 minutes a game and sit out anytime they are sore, is that going to be a solution?

 

I find this unconvincing considering

1) The suns had a history of making "players that have a history breaking down" suddenly healhty

2) Reinsdorf's other organization has a fantastic reputation of keeping players healthy, especially pitchers.

 

But also "sit out anytime they are sore"...come on. Nowhere was that an argument. You can't make up a silly argument just to shoot it down.

[Kyyle23]

I wonder if Gar will have his season ending exit press conference this season. None of the beat reporters that call in the score think he will

[Balta1701]

He makes several good points. But I can't get my head around pushing it is the cause of the problem. DRose sat and sat and sat and sat, still sits for general soreness, and still gets hurt. If Noah sat out another week, maybe his shoulder doesn't get injured again, but I'm thinking sitting another week would cause that not to happen to be not so likely.

 

I do think using the Suns way may help a bit, but once guys start having a history of breaking down, I don't think there really is much that is going to stop it from continuing. If you want to play your best players 25 minutes a game and sit out anytime they are sore, is that going to be a solution?

At the very least, the reason I highlighted it is that "The Bulls have consistently lost the most time to injury since Thibs took over and their numbers right now are higher than any numbers for the previous decade" is a trend clear enough that there must be a cause. Maybe it's "adding extra injuries on top of normal injuries" that is making that trend happen, maybe it's something else in the conditioning, maybe it's systematically choosing players likely to break down, but this is a major, franchise damaging trend at this poitn.

[Chisoxfn]

At the very least, the reason I highlighted it is that "The Bulls have consistently lost the most time to injury since Thibs took over and their numbers right now are higher than any numbers for the previous decade" is a trend clear enough that there must be a cause. Maybe it's "adding extra injuries on top of normal injuries" that is making that trend happen, maybe it's something else in the conditioning, maybe it's systematically choosing players likely to break down, but this is a major, franchise damaging trend at this poitn.

I mean the whole Butler hurts knee than plays asbsurd amount of minutes and than hurts knee again and now continues to play absurd amount of minutes is just one of the long list of examples. It was a great piece and I scratch my head for how poorly it is run. I personally don't think it was necessarily Thibs issue and I don't know if it is 100% the trainers issues or what, but they certainly don't seem to be a progressive team leading innovation from a training perspective, that is for sure. It could be a combination of poor training and drafting / going with more injury prone guys as well. Past injuries tend to be a predictor / indicator of future injuries.

 

Please, have some turnover in the front office.

[bmags]

I heard Sam Hinkie is available.

[GGajewski18]

Bulls lose again tonight. Whiteside completely owned Pau down the stretch. This team has given up.

 

 

[soxsoxsoxsox]

Bulls lose again tonight. Whiteside completely owned Pau down the stretch. This team has given up.

 

I don't understand how McDermotts foul was a flagrant lol

 

He just wrapped Whiteside up then they both fell over

 

Lebron can eliminate the Bulls from the playoffs again with a win

 

R.I.P.

 

 

 

[Steve9347]

Lebron can eliminate the Bulls from the playoffs again with a win

How poetic.

[Dick Allen]

DRose is going to workout hard this summer. Contract time.

[LDF]

DRose is going to workout hard this summer. Contract time.

 

i really don't think that will not really help. all the other nba org has to do is count up how many games he has played in the last 4yr and compare that to his yearly salary earned.

 

that is why i posted a couple of weeks ago, the bulls should find a way to trade him for anything, even if the bulls will need to eat salary.

 

as i also mention, the bulls really need to rebuild.

 

 

edit.... oops edit the post.

Edited April 8, 2016 by LDF

[whitesoxfan99]

I don't understand how McDermotts foul was a flagrant lol

 

He just wrapped Whiteside up then they both fell over

 

Lebron can eliminate the Bulls from the playoffs again with a win

 

R.I.P.

 

I'm pretty sure the Bulls can be eliminated tonight if the Pacers win so LeBron might not even get the chance to eliminate the Bulls (although the Pacers are playing at Toronto so they will most likely lose tonight).

[nitetrain8601]

I heard Sam Hinkie is available.

 

He actually was doing the right thing. The thing is, he felt he never had to make his intentions transparent to the fan base or the league. He drafted BPA every year in the draft. Waited for Embiid to come back, and is looking to consolidate to get some wings there. Once you've done that, you can now start trying to make the playoffs and attract FAs.

 

I think Colangelo was absolutely the wrong person to hire. The guy simply wanted to be a GM and used this opportunity to push Hinkie out and insert himself in. He went from consultant to biggest voice in the room within months.

[Chisoxfn]

He actually was doing the right thing. The thing is, he felt he never had to make his intentions transparent to the fan base or the league. He drafted BPA every year in the draft. Waited for Embiid to come back, and is looking to consolidate to get some wings there. Once you've done that, you can now start trying to make the playoffs and attract FAs.

 

I think Colangelo was absolutely the wrong person to hire. The guy simply wanted to be a GM and used this opportunity to push Hinkie out and insert himself in. He went from consultant to biggest voice in the room within months.

I'll say this much, I'd have been thrilled if the Bulls brought in Jerry. He's got a good track record for running strong organizations. I've actually sat next to him at a restaurant before, seemed like a super nice guy based upon me and my dad eavesdropping on his whole conversation (he was telling stories about managers he had fired with the Dbacks, different moves with the Suns). Super interesting stuff, hence why we couldn't not listen. He even apologized to us for being so loud and we said, no please take louder, this is great, haha.

[Kyyle23]

I'll say this much, I'd have been thrilled if the Bulls brought in Jerry. He's got a good track record for running strong organizations. I've actually sat next to him at a restaurant before, seemed like a super nice guy based upon me and my dad eavesdropping on his whole conversation (he was telling stories about managers he had fired with the Dbacks, different moves with the Suns). Super interesting stuff, hence why we couldn't not listen. He even apologized to us for being so loud and we said, no please take louder, this is great, haha.

 

They are bringing in Bryan to be GM, not Jerry. Jerry is president of Basketball ops. Nepotism

 

 

And I disagree that Hinkie drafted BPA with Embiid. his injury issues weren't a secret and everything people said has come home to roost

[Chisoxfn]

They are bringing in Bryan to be GM, not Jerry. Jerry is president of Basketball ops. Nepotism

 

 

And I disagree that Hinkie drafted BPA with Embiid. his injury issues weren't a secret and everything people said has come home to roost

They first brought in Jerry and now they are bringing in Bryan. All of this has been executed by Jerry and I believe that is who Ninetrain was referencing. he was initially brought in as a consultant and he has taken a much stronger role and strong voice and pushed Hinkie out. I don't disagree with Hinkie's overall philosophy to maximize picks, etc, but who they drafted left plenty to be desired and didn't fit from a roster construction perspective and I haven't seen him make subsequent trades to make it work either.

 

It is one thing to get the picks and come up with the strategy, but you still have to actually make good picks. And Bryan has a history of being a pretty good talent evaluator. Good track record from Phoenix to Toronto.

[Chisoxfn]

They first brought in Jerry and now they are bringing in Bryan. All of this has been executed by Jerry and I believe that is who Ninetrain was referencing. he was initially brought in as a consultant and he has taken a much stronger role and strong voice and pushed Hinkie out. I don't disagree with Hinkie's overall philosophy to maximize picks, etc, but who they drafted left plenty to be desired and didn't fit from a roster construction perspective and I haven't seen him make subsequent trades to make it work either.

 

It is one thing to get the picks and come up with the strategy, but you still have to actually make good picks. And Bryan has a history of being a pretty good talent evaluator. Good track record from Phoenix to Toronto.

Bottom line, if you told me Jerry was going to bring in the Colangelos, I would be extremely happy. They are extremely well respected in this league. Honestly, if things went sour sooner, I wouldn't have been surprised if Jerry considered the Colangelo's (I believe Jerry & Jerry are relatively good friends), but it might have been too many egos for JR.

[LDF]

They are bringing in Bryan to be GM, not Jerry. Jerry is president of Basketball ops. Nepotism

 

 

And I disagree that Hinkie drafted BPA with Embiid. his injury issues weren't a secret and everything people said has come home to roost

 

i will really be honest, i am not up to date on all the basketball that many a posters here exhibit.

 

so i went to read up on him. here is a nice article on him

 

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/4/7/11383474/...er-smartest-man

 

i really got a hard question, but i am going ask it after the next post.

[LDF]

They first brought in Jerry and now they are bringing in Bryan. All of this has been executed by Jerry and I believe that is who Ninetrain was referencing. he was initially brought in as a consultant and he has taken a much stronger role and strong voice and pushed Hinkie out. I don't disagree with Hinkie's overall philosophy to maximize picks, etc, but who they drafted left plenty to be desired and didn't fit from a roster construction perspective and I haven't seen him make subsequent trades to make it work either.

 

It is one thing to get the picks and come up with the strategy, but you still have to actually make good picks. And Bryan has a history of being a pretty good talent evaluator. Good track record from Phoenix to Toronto.

 

when i reading up on hinkie, i was reminded so much on gar forman. while catching up on gar, i forgot he was an asst to floyd.

 

that should have meant something at the time and no-one caught it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gar_Forman

 

but the question i wanted to ask, is hinkie any better than gar???

 

i just don't know enuf of this to come up with an answer.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I heard Sam Hinkie is available.

 

 

I'd rather have Hinkie than our management group. At least Hinkie has a vision and a plan.

[Chisoxfn]

when i reading up on hinkie, i was reminded so much on gar forman. while catching up on gar, i forgot he was an asst to floyd.

 

that should have meant something at the time and no-one caught it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gar_Forman

 

but the question i wanted to ask, is hinkie any better than gar???

 

i just don't know enuf of this to come up with an answer.

Gar is an ass, but I do think he has a pretty good eye for talent. He might not be perfect, but every guy will miss from time to time and while we can point to some of the Bulls misses, they have historically been one of the better drafting teams under Pax / Gar, especially when you consider where they were typically picking. Gar has plenty of issues, but I think from a pure talent evaluation perspective, I like him over Hinkie. Supposedly Hinkie has trouble working with people (not sure how much is true vs. Jerry Collangelo driving that wedge) and I think like Gar, both are best suited in a more assistant capacity than a true GM. Hinkie would great to have in Chicago (but not as a GM). Would love his analytical mind as I think it is a valuable resource that would go great with a GM who appreciates the analytics but also has an adapt eye for talent and a strong ability to work with others.

 

Honestly, I really wonder if we see Hoiberg move to the front office. Would be curious if he'd do it. Or whether Doug Collins would still be willing to take an assistant role to help Hoiberg? Either way, I really hope we see at least some sort of shakeup in the front office (it is imperative, imo).

[Steve9347]

Gar is an ass, but I do think he has a pretty good eye for talent.

gtfo

[Chisoxfn]

gtfo

I didn't say he was a master roster creator or a great GM. I think he's a lousy GM. We could all get pissed about not drafting Draymond Greene but in general, I think we have drafted pretty well under Gar & Pax. Basically put, it isn't bad drafting for why we are in the position we are in. It is bad roster creation and a complete inability to work with others and just in general be a prick. He has an inability to make trades and roll the dice with guys and truly create a great team (albeit injuries early can absolve him a bit, his recent stubbornness can not be ignored).

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Gar is an ass, but I do think he has a pretty good eye for talent. He might not be perfect, but every guy will miss from time to time and while we can point to some of the Bulls misses, they have historically been one of the better drafting teams under Pax / Gar, especially when you consider where they were typically picking. Gar has plenty of issues, but I think from a pure talent evaluation perspective, I like him over Hinkie. Supposedly Hinkie has trouble working with people (not sure how much is true vs. Jerry Collangelo driving that wedge) and I think like Gar, both are best suited in a more assistant capacity than a true GM. Hinkie would great to have in Chicago (but not as a GM). Would love his analytical mind as I think it is a valuable resource that would go great with a GM who appreciates the analytics but also has an adapt eye for talent and a strong ability to work with others.

 

Honestly, I really wonder if we see Hoiberg move to the front office. Would be curious if he'd do it. Or whether Doug Collins would still be willing to take an assistant role to help Hoiberg? Either way, I really hope we see at least some sort of shakeup in the front office (it is imperative, imo).

 

I know everyone wants to blast them for the Thibs debable, but let's not forget who gave him his first head coaching job when no one else would.

[LDF]

I didn't say he was a master roster creator or a great GM. I think he's a lousy GM. We could all get pissed about not drafting Draymond Greene but in general, I think we have drafted pretty well under Gar & Pax. Basically put, it isn't bad drafting for why we are in the position we are in. It is bad roster creation and a complete inability to work with others and just in general be a prick. He has an inability to make trades and roll the dice with guys and truly create a great team (albeit injuries early can absolve him a bit, his recent stubbornness can not be ignored).

so in the other article i pasted on the other admin post, the same about gar and about the same for hinkie.

 

this is where my doubt comes in, there is the same talked being said about each in different articles. .... better yet, let me correct myself, it was said about hinkie. the talk about gar is what is being said here.

[Chisoxfn]

I know everyone wants to blast them for the Thibs debable, but let's not forget who gave him his first head coaching job when no one else would.

Jerry Reinsdorf. IIRC, the candidates Gar wanted were Mike Brown and someone else whose a pretty failed head coach. Pax had other preferences as well and JR pushed Thibs.