2015-2016 NBA Thread

[southsider2k5]

But those aren't some secrets nobody knows about. He's already had that thrown at him and it bounced off his back.

 

Do you really think all these star athletes today who aren't getting burned in the press and social media lead lives on the straight and narrow?

That they don't do anything remotely near the things in which you think MJ would get destroyed?

 

If you can't see the difference between the way the media handled him today, and the way social media intensifies a story today, no amount the typical back and forths where you search for one key word to take exception with will change anything.

[Chisoxfn]

It isn't like Jordan isn't still a hugely recognizable figure. Either he's changed his behaviors as a result of social media, etc (or just gotten more careful) or he adapted to the new society to ensure his image continues to be that of the greatest player ever.

 

If Jordan did something terrible, it would still be huge news and he'd get blasted in social media today. He's still extremely famous and one of the most recognizable people on the planet. I don't buy into Jordan having any image other than the current one he has (regardless of era's). He was too smart of a business guy and by and large his issues happened on the court / in practice. Tons of players gamble and tons of them cheat...I've heard multiple NBA reporters say that it is an unwritten rule that you absolutely do not report on what you see outside of the basketball lines (unless of course it is a violation of laws). And one of the reporters, Ramona Shelbourne, went further and mentioned specifically affairs, other women, etc.

 

The PGA world is a much different perceived sport than basketball. Jordan sleeping with other women didn't make him different. Tiger doing it did (as the perceived golfer is a gentlemen who would never do such a thing...not that it is true, it probably isn't it, but it is the perception). Ask people if they think their favorite NBA player cheats or if their favorite golfer cheats and you'll probably get pretty drastically different responses. Tiger also had done it forever, it was the whole car accident and entire craze that added to it as well.

[Dick Allen]

If you can't see the difference between the way the media handled him today, and the way social media intensifies a story today, no amount the typical back and forths where you search for one key word to take exception with will change anything.

I can't because Michael Jordan is still around making more money than ever. Why isn't he getting destroyed?

 

You seem to blow that off.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Kyyle23]

It isn't like Jordan isn't still a hugely recognizable figure. Either he's changed his behaviors as a result of social media, etc (or just gotten more careful) or he adapted to the new society to ensure his image continues to be that of the greatest player ever.

 

If Jordan did something terrible, it would still be huge news and he'd get blasted in social media today. He's still extremely famous and one of the most recognizable people on the planet. I don't buy into Jordan having any image other than the current one he has (regardless of era's). He was too smart of a business guy and by and large his issues happened on the court / in practice. Tons of players gamble and tons of them cheat...I've heard multiple NBA reporters say that it is an unwritten rule that you absolutely do not report on what you see outside of the basketball lines (unless of course it is a violation of laws). And one of the reporters, Ramona Shelbourne, went further and mentioned specifically affairs, other women, etc.

 

The PGA world is a much different perceived sport than basketball. Jordan sleeping with other women didn't make him different. Tiger doing it did (as the perceived golfer is a gentlemen who would never do such a thing...not that it is true, it probably isn't it, but it is the perception). Ask people if they think their favorite NBA player cheats or if their favorite golfer cheats and you'll probably get pretty drastically different responses. Tiger also had done it forever, it was the whole car accident and entire craze that added to it as well.

 

The wife/car incident is what kicked it all off. Then everyone was like "hmmmmm what was all that about?" and started digging

[Jordan4life_2007]

If not for tmz, donald sterling would still own the clippers. That's all you need to know about the difference between now and then. It's no contest.

[Jenksismyhero]

And it was all amplified over the years with his un-Tiger like play on the tour. If Tiger Woods wins the Masters the following year after the scandal, it's a non-story. But since he hasn't won, and hasn't even played well, we can keep tying it back to the scandal. It lives on as the source of Tiger Woods not being Tiger Woods anymore.

 

Who remembers that Kobe anally raped a young women? Anyone? Does anyone talk about it? Nope. He signed a seven-year, $136 million contract a year after the allegations, and regained several of his endorsements from Nike, Spalding, and Coca-Cola. He was named the NBA's Most Valuable Player in 2008 and the Finals' Most Valuable Player in 2009 and 2010.

[Jenksismyhero]

If not for tmz, donald sterling would still own the clippers. That's all you need to know about the difference between now and then. It's no contest.

 

That's societal though, not a change in coverage. We all knew Sterling was a racist POS for years. We heard the stories.

[Chisoxfn]

If not for tmz, donald sterling would still own the clippers. That's all you need to know about the difference between now and then. It's no contest.

Marge Schott happened before the days of TMZ.

[southsider2k5]

If not for tmz, donald sterling would still own the clippers. That's all you need to know about the difference between now and then. It's no contest.

 

Another one that come to mind is Ray Rice and the viral elevator video. No social media, no TMZ, and Ray Rice is still running in the NFL.

[Dick Allen]

What would TMZ or youtube or twitter uncover about Jordan's gambling,and womanizing and anything about his dad that wasn't already out there?

[southsider2k5]

What would TMZ or youtube or twitter uncover about Jordan's gambling,and womanizing and anything about his dad that wasn't already out there?

 

That is kind of the point actually. This was all going on in an era where none of this stuff was around, and stories like this faded away pretty quickly. There was no digging, there was no outrage for outrages sake. There was no reverberation and 24 hour rumor mill. There weren't the millions of amatuers fishing for clicks based on whatever they can get them from. Jordan punches two different teammates at two different times (at least) and we find out about it years later, even though the local media all knew when it happened. The gambling stuff happened, and had some cursory reporting, but how many people really dug into it and got details? Who knows what else is out there that we had no idea about. In 2016, what is to say that someone with their phone out doesn't get Jordan on video doing any of this stuff? Maybe they get Jordan on tape using a slur about Krause. Who knows. But that is exactly it.

 

You can hand wave it away all you want, but the reality is it isn't the same environment as having your local media protect you like it was 30 years ago.

[Dick Allen]

That is kind of the point actually. This was all going on in an era where none of this stuff was around, and stories like this faded away pretty quickly. There was no digging, there was no outrage for outrages sake. There was no reverberation and 24 hour rumor mill. There weren't the millions of amatuers fishing for clicks based on whatever they can get them from. Jordan punches two different teammates at two different times (at least) and we find out about it years later, even though the local media all knew when it happened. The gambling stuff happened, and had some cursory reporting, but how many people really dug into it and got details? Who knows what else is out there that we had no idea about. In 2016, what is to say that someone with their phone out doesn't get Jordan on video doing any of this stuff? Maybe they get Jordan on tape using a slur about Krause. Who knows. But that is exactly it.

 

You can hand wave it away all you want, but the reality is it isn't the same environment as having your local media protect you like it was 30 years ago.

2016 Michael Jordan is still around. He's still popular. He's still most likely doing things you would think TMZ and the like would bury him for. Yet nothing. Tell me why.

[southsider2k5]

2016 Michael Jordan is still around. He's still popular. He's still most likely doing things you would think TMZ and the like would bury him for. Yet nothing. Tell me why.

 

That is a complete non sequitur. The absence of something isn't proof of something else. Besides, what is he doing now that TMZ is ignoring?

[Dick Allen]

That is a complete non sequitur. The absence of something isn't proof of something else. Besides, what is he doing now that TMZ is ignoring?

Apparently they aren't digging deep enough. As you said he punched a teammate, he gambled, he cheated on his wife..all stuff we already knew but if all these things were around they would have dug and found much more. That is what you have claimed. So why wouldn't they try to dig up something now?

 

What do you think they would have done to Walter Payton? Do you think the NFL Man of the Year award would be named in his honor?

Edited May 12, 2016 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

Apparently they aren't digging deep enough. As you said he punched a teammate, he gambled, he cheated on his wife..all stuff we already knew but if all these things were around they would have dug and found much more. That is what you have claimed. So why wouldn't they try to dig up something now?

 

What do you think they would have done to Walter Payton? Do you think the NFL Man of the Year award would be named in his honor?

 

Is this the stage where you just start naming names of other people and things?

 

I have no idea what Michael Jordan is up to now, but you seem to think he is still up to stuff. You tell me what he is up to, I don't know.

 

As for the information on him, I think it is very clear that these things are dug into MUCH more deeply today. Two good examples of it have already been given in this thread. There are more out there.

[knightni]

If not for tmz, donald sterling would still own the clippers. That's all you need to know about the difference between now and then. It's no contest.

Deadspin has had him pegged since 2009.

[Dick Allen]

Is this the stage where you just start naming names of other people and things?

 

I have no idea what Michael Jordan is up to now, but you seem to think he is still up to stuff. You tell me what he is up to, I don't know.

 

As for the information on him, I think it is very clear that these things are dug into MUCH more deeply today. Two good examples of it have already been given in this thread. There are more out there.

2 examples out of thousands. One was Tiger who was doing this stuff for years before anyone reported it. The other was a wife beater who was arrested and suspended, and wasn't a very good player anymore. I'll give you without TMZ Ray Rice would have played football again. How did Kobe survive and being sort of heroic after what he did? This is a very forgiving society. Especially with stars. Jordan would have been Jordan no matter what, and people would have still looked the other way, especially media as they kind of liked he was good to them.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Texsox]

Oscar Robertson average a triple double 31 pts, 12 rebounds, and 12 assists per game the same season Chamberlain averaged over 50. They both lost out to Russell. Now any one of those seasons could have resulted in a unanimous MVP vote if they hadn't all happened the same year.

[shipps]

All of the stars in the past would have been accustomed to being more tactful in keeping their skeletons in the dark. They wouldnt have been out there picking up prostitutes if they knew people had cameras on their cell phones recording them...or maybe they would.

[Dick Allen]

All of the stars in the past would have been accustomed to being more tactful in keeping their skeletons in the dark. They wouldnt have been out there picking up prostitutes if they knew people had cameras on their cell phones recording them...or maybe they would.

The other thing is Michael Jordan isn't hanging at clubs picking up chicks. All the stuff he did was pretty private. If there was no paramedic call to Tiger, all that stuff would probably never have come out. Ray Rice got nailed because he beat his wife at a hotel with a security camera. If he beat her somewhere private, he would have gotten away with a minimal suspension.

 

I do think you are correct with the tact. He was always very protective of his brand.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Chisoxfn]

Things are different when photo/video is involved. It just is. Sort of apples to oranges, but take Manziel for example. He has made some really bad mistakes and just awful errors in judgement, but if the Cleveland media would just keep saying "reports are Manizel is still being seen at nightclubs in LA", it is what it is. In 2016, we see video and pictures of Maziel leaving bars at 4am on a weekly basis. It makes him look awful, and it's become a storyline.

 

In the case of MJ, even if they were mostly underground gambling games, once one picture got out there and sold, everyone would be trying to get in on the action, and we all know how easy it is to grab a quick snap on our phone. All the sudden pictures of him gambling come out once, twice, three times a month. So instead of all the rumors floating around there, we have pictures of him at the table. It's different. Now, would it have really mattered at the end of the day for a guy like Jordan? Probably not, he was obviously still the GOAT. But, to the argument that nothing has changed, I think it has. Not in a gigantic way, but it's changed enough.

Big difference...Jordan gambled when he was the best player ever. People knock Manziel, not because he partied, but because he sucked and partied. Look at Gronk...he parties like crazy and people love him for it...why cause he's amazing on the field.

[LittleHurt05]

Big difference...Jordan gambled when he was the best player ever. People knock Manziel, not because he partied, but because he sucked and partied. Look at Gronk...he parties like crazy and people love him for it...why cause he's amazing on the field.

 

Manziel also broke his girlfriend's eardrum. It's not just about partying.

[caulfield12]

I have to agree with Dick Allen (unfortunately) on this one.

 

Look at the recent stories with Peyton Manning, Maria Sharapova and the same gambling/cheating allegations with Phil Mickelson (money laundering, etc.)

 

The Tiger story was about bringing down and destroying a brand because that image was so carefully cultivated by Nike, by his agent/s with IMG, by his caddie (who conveniently now regrets protecting him, lol)....he was going to break Nicklaus' record, etc. Part of it has to do with the interracial nature of these situations, the fact that his wife was/is a model and the majority of the 100+ girls he was cheating with were white. The whole randomness of it, like the Perkins girl and Rachel Uchitel...a whole media industry was born from that original scandal and blossomed. And, as noted, that it ran completely contrary to his image (until that point) as a golfing robot who was always on message and frustratingly boring and focused. Of course, he never has won a major since that time and is unlikely now to ever be the same physically because of all the torque that swing put on his knees and back (and partially from bulking up with the weight lifting there for awhile).

 

Jordan is bulletproof because 1) he always came across as more likable/popular than Tiger (or Kobe), 2) he was more media savvy, like Tiger, never one to offend any of his customers or utter anything remotely shocking or that could be construed as political advocacy (shared that with Tiger, whose dad made the famous comment he would make more of an impact off the course than Gandhi, which he did in a way with his sordid stories), 3) Dennis Rodman was successful at deflecting some of that media attention away by his utter craziness.

 

 

[Rowand44]

Manziel also broke his girlfriend's eardrum. It's not just about partying.

He's also no showed and showed up late to a bunch of stuff before and during his career. It's not really the partying, it's just what the partying had led to.

[Chisoxfn]

Manziel also broke his girlfriend's eardrum. It's not just about partying.

Yes, but it wasn't like he wasn't getting bad PR before that. Guy clearly has problems.