Jenksismyhero Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:06 PM) So, when does GarPax finally get the axe? Afraid to trade young players, sign old vets, hire coaches and then have dysfunction with them despite success. Now they sign their golden boy and this team has gone down the toilet. Not sure how it's their fault when the problem is a lack of energy/effort, not talent. I mean they've made mistakes in the past so they're not immune to criticism, but they're pretty far down the list of problems with this team. Like I said yesterday, problem #1 is Rose. His defense last night was awful. So many blow byes. And then the untimely turnovers. He needs to be benched and I wonder if that's who Butler was indirectly referring to when he said people need to be held accountable. Edited December 22, 2015 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 10:11 PM) Why do people keep asking when Garpax is getting fired as if they don't know who is Garpaxs boss? They aren't getting fired, people. The team still plays in front of a mostly full crowd, they have been in the playoffs every year for a long streak, Jerry don't give a f*** Actually their boss is JR's son . I know someone who knows him quite well. He obviously respects and admires his father but has different ideas about things. Whether he would fire Gar/Pax, I have no idea, but I do know a full house and making the playoffs doesn't trump falling short. The problem I have is it seems the only people who thought swapping out Thibs for the Mayor would or at least could lead to the promised land with basically the same roster, work in the Bulls front office. The hatchet job they did on Thibs when they let him go was unnecessary and disgusting, and they are looking like bigger fools than ever now. Jeff Van Gundy has material for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 ESPN's Zach Lowe has a big piece up today on the Bulls dysfunction, including direct quotes even from Forman, in addition to on the record stuff from a number of players. Counts as a must read. Small Excerpt. Go read the rest. "I mean, what is the identity of this team?" Noah asks, a few days before going down with a shoulder injury. "It's hard to say. Our identity has always been: You come to Chicago, you're in for a war. It's not like that right now. I don't care what the numbers say. Just watch the games. There are 25,000 people in the building, and it's dead quiet. It has never been like that. It's tough to see the building that way. And it's on us. You bring the fire, and they will love you here. But if you're coasting, playing this low-energy game -- I'm not sure we can win like that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 04:25 PM) Yep. Plus, I just want to see your reaction to Zbo on the Bulls, haha. On a sidenote, what is the Bulls benefit for this swap? Are we getting another asset? I'd think straight up Pau is the better player (and both are old). Is it purely because Zbo is around for longer (thus extending the window)? I'd have thought if we move Pau it would be to get a younger wing player (or draft picks). I'd be OK if they just kept him out of the clubs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 09:44 AM) ESPN's Zach Lowe has a big piece up today on the Bulls dysfunction, including direct quotes even from Forman, in addition to on the record stuff from a number of players. Counts as a must read. Small Excerpt. Go read the rest. The line about Rose finally being ready, that he just had his preseason, is such bulls***. Preseason is what, 8 games? We're at like 25 right now. I think that's enough games to determine that Rose is never going to be half the player he used to be. edit: the Bulls are officially stuck in NBA purgatory. With Butler they're good enough to make the playoffs every year, but not good enough to win or even get to the Finals. They're stuck with a broke, max player in Rose. All of their remaining pieces are good role players at best. And they have little hope in the draft to improve. They have to rely on FA signings, which has been such a success story the last decade. Edited December 22, 2015 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 11:08 AM) The line about Rose finally being ready, that he just had his preseason, is such bulls***. Preseason is what, 8 games? We're at like 25 right now. I think that's enough games to determine that Rose is never going to be half the player he used to be. edit: the Bulls are officially stuck in NBA purgatory. With Butler they're good enough to make the playoffs every year, but not good enough to win or even get to the Finals. They're stuck with a broke, max player in Rose. All of their remaining pieces are good role players at best. And they have little hope in the draft to improve. They have to rely on FA signings, which has been such a success story the last decade. Yep, and Rose played in the final preseason game. We are nearly a third of the way through the season and there are zero signs of improvement from Rose or the team as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 11:08 AM) The line about Rose finally being ready, that he just had his preseason, is such bulls***. Preseason is what, 8 games? We're at like 25 right now. I think that's enough games to determine that Rose is never going to be half the player he used to be. edit: the Bulls are officially stuck in NBA purgatory. With Butler they're good enough to make the playoffs every year, but not good enough to win or even get to the Finals. They're stuck with a broke, max player in Rose. All of their remaining pieces are good role players at best. And they have little hope in the draft to improve. They have to rely on FA signings, which has been such a success story the last decade. And with respect to free agency, it isn't like there is a free agent out there this year that the Bulls have a chance at that would actually be a game changer anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 http://hoopshype.com/2015/12/10/nba-free-a...he-top-players/ I assume Drummond gets a max deal. Whiteside too. Horford maybe. Is that really an upgrade though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 08:15 AM) Actually their boss is JR's son . I know someone who knows him quite well. He obviously respects and admires his father but has different ideas about things. Whether he would fire Gar/Pax, I have no idea, but I do know a full house and making the playoffs doesn't trump falling short. The problem I have is it seems the only people who thought swapping out Thibs for the Mayor would or at least could lead to the promised land with basically the same roster, work in the Bulls front office. The hatchet job they did on Thibs when they let him go was unnecessary and disgusting, and they are looking like bigger fools than ever now. Jeff Van Gundy has material for years. Come on DA, lets be real here. Jerry is still owner of the Bulls, Michael may be President/COO, but as long as JR is alive things will continue to be done his way. When Thibs was let go, it wasnt Michael writing that scathing letter that ripped Tom out the door, it was Jerry. The guy is still in the building Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 09:44 AM) ESPN's Zach Lowe has a big piece up today on the Bulls dysfunction, including direct quotes even from Forman, in addition to on the record stuff from a number of players. Counts as a must read. Small Excerpt. Go read the rest. Jesus. Just release Rose, already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 You read that and thought Rose was the main problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 02:01 PM) You read that and thought Rose was the main problem? I saw that image and thought it was ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 01:26 AM) And if Jimmy is the man, you are firmly in basketball hell. What do you mean by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Quote that stuck out to me was the below: Forman bristles a bit at the notion Chicago is a disappointment so far. "Anytime there is a change, it takes time," Forman adds. "We see the glass half-full. And changing coaches was not about boosting the offense." What do you mean? If you didn't change to improve the offense, what reason for the change? The defense was elite so only one thing had to give. Just further proof that the change was non-basketball related and ignored Thibbs basketball brilliance. It just reiterates what we all know. The real struggle is Gar didn't actually do an exhaustive coaching search to confirm Fred was the right guy. Nor do I ever get the feeling that Gar and company (and Thibs plays an equal part in this for being a brick wall himself) ever tried to work out the differences or take a bigger picture look and say, wow, this is working, how can WE MAKE IT BETTER and TAKE THE NEXT STEP. Instead it was this constant battle and belittlement and thus you never had the "how do we make it better". The independent smarts / brightness of the front office and Thibbs was evident, imo (Bulls have been astoot at drafting / identifying talent...yes they missed the big fish, but their drafts have been outstanding). But you compare them to the Spurs and Pop and the big difference is EVERYONE is working towards one common goal and that has been consistently reinforced. I never got the feeling that Pax / Gar / Thibbs really gave it a fair shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 By the way, I think the piece that will change in this puzzle will be Pau. That said, not sure how Noah's injury impacts those plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Quote that stuck out to me was the below: Forman bristles a bit at the notion Chicago is a disappointment so far. "Anytime there is a change, it takes time," Forman adds. "We see the glass half-full. And changing coaches was not about boosting the offense." What do you mean? If you didn't change to improve the offense, what reason for the change? The defense was elite so only one thing had to give. Just further proof that the change was non-basketball related and ignored Thibbs basketball brilliance. It just reiterates what we all know. The real struggle is Gar didn't actually do an exhaustive coaching search to confirm Fred was the right guy. Nor do I ever get the feeling that Gar and company (and Thibs plays an equal part in this for being a brick wall himself) ever tried to work out the differences or take a bigger picture look and say, wow, this is working, how can WE MAKE IT BETTER and TAKE THE NEXT STEP. Instead it was this constant battle and belittlement and thus you never had the "how do we make it better". The independent smarts / brightness of the front office and Thibbs was evident, imo (Bulls have been astoot at drafting / identifying talent...yes they missed the big fish, but their drafts have been outstanding). But you compare them to the Spurs and Pop and the big difference is EVERYONE is working towards one common goal and that has been consistently reinforced. I never got the feeling that Pax / Gar / Thibbs really gave it a fair shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 The other key point Lowe makes is the below. Nothing else to add. Rose plays like he has thus far and we are a pretender. Case closed. Rose doesn't get to play much with this group, and, really, all the hand-wringing over sacrifice, selflessness, big-man combinations, and bench lineups is just nibbling around the edges. If Rose is good again, his partnership with Butler can work. If he's not, the Bulls are toast as a contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 What is the status of Noah? Does he need surgery or is it a week to week thing? I got sad last night wondering whether I saw his last game with the Bulls (as I know sometimes dislocated shoulders can be season ending). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 02:36 PM) What do you mean by this? Do you think Jimmy Butler could be the best player on a championship team? Hard to imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Oh....to hog this thread, one other thing I found of note from Lowe's piece. I still say, trade Rose for Russell. Lakers need their "star" to market. Off-loading Rose could give them almost $45 million in room, and rival executives believe the lure of the old Rose remains enticing enough that Chicago could actually get something for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 Noah out for 2 weeks, will be re-evaluated then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 02:45 PM) By the way, I think the piece that will change in this puzzle will be Pau. That said, not sure how Noah's injury impacts those plans. Pau seems like the likeliest guy to be traded. However, it doesn't make a ton of sense to trade one of your best offensive weapons on a team that is terrible on offense. The main issue for the offensive woes has to be Rose. I mean, the guy has an O-Rating of 87. Just insanely atrocious. Pair that with Snell (an O-Rating of 89) and you just get a terrible offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 QUOTE (Boogua @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 12:57 PM) Pau seems like the likeliest guy to be traded. However, it doesn't make a ton of sense to trade one of your best offensive weapons on a team that is terrible on offense. The main issue for the offensive woes has to be Rose. I mean, the guy has an O-Rating of 87. Just insanely atrocious. Pair that with Snell (an O-Rating of 89) and you just get a terrible offense. I think the key concept here is whether Pau is a piece that fits with the offense we are trying to run (vs. the offense we are running). Pau plays his best basketball in lower tempo / half court sets. Hoiberg doesn't want to do it. Now ignoring the fact that Rose has played like hot garbage, Jimmy can play in transition, Noah can run, Taj can run, etc. The oddest man out in the overall system is Pau (similar to how Pau was an odd man out when the Lakers transitioned to D'Antoni). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 02:52 PM) Oh....to hog this thread, one other thing I found of note from Lowe's piece. I still say, trade Rose for Russell. Lakers need their "star" to market. I'd do that. But I don't see why the Lakers would. Rose isn't a star anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I was being kind of sarcastic but kind of not. Lakers are desperate. Get Russell and than make a crazy push for KD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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