2015-2016 NBA Thread

[Dick Allen]

Not that it's likely in this scenario, but have coaches who've been fired by a team end up being hired by the team again?

Mike Brown. Flip Saunders. Doug Moe I think with the Nuggets. The Bulls almost hired Doug Collins when they hired Thibs. It happens, but Thibs isn't coming back. He can find a job way too easily, and the public shaming was ridiculous. I like JR, but that was classless and unnecessary, and IMO he got played by Gar Foreman.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Dick Allen

[Chisoxfn]

It is a flawed roster. I doubt we'd be 7th in east, thou.

Clearly if this team is healthy, it is still a top 3 team in the East. Just look at the recent collapse (and all the games this team has lost which it should have won...where it just inexplicably blew it)...and we are still just 4 games or something off the Celtics and the 3 spot. That said, as Pau said, we've been an inconsistent team for a year and a half and clearly aren't better off because Thibs is gone.

 

Anyone who thought Thibs was so bad that Hoiberg could come in and make them a championship team was crazy (i.e., Gar). I don't know if they legit believed that or if it was more that they just felt they needed a better working relationship (and improved health or more time, including continued development from some of the young players, who have all taken steps backwards with exception of Doug, who quite frankly, could only get better and should have given his health).

 

This is a very flawed roster and a beat up roster. Oh and if Thibs had played Butler all those minutes, good lord people would have complained.

[Chisoxfn]

Mike Brown. Flip Saunders. Doug Moe I think with the Nuggets. The Bulls almost hired Doug Collins when they hired Thibs. It happens, but Thibs isn't coming back. He can find a job way too easily, and the public shaming was ridiculous. I like JR, but that was classless and unnecessary, and IMO he got played by Gar Foreman.

I really wonder if things are as bad as some of the insiders are reporting, with Gar, whether he even makes it to the trade deadline. I truly believe Gar is absolutely gone.

[Balta1701]

You know Balta, we agree. Everyone else acts like we should just give up and not try for Durant, but I say screw it.

What's the harm? Clear some cap space, try to get an extra late first rounder this year, and our lineup next summer has Rose and Butler and a couple bigs including a young Portis and a need at SF.

 

If we don't land him, then we're in the same boat we are now except after 2017 Rose's contract comes off the books. We still have 1 young all star locked up for 3 years right now.

[Chisoxfn]

What's the harm? Clear some cap space, try to get an extra late first rounder this year, and our lineup next summer has Rose and Butler and a couple bigs including a young Portis and a need at SF.

 

If we don't land him, then we're in the same boat we are now except after 2017 Rose's contract comes off the books. We still have 1 young all star locked up for 3 years right now.

I also think they should be looking at Boogie and Blake Griffin too. And if the Lakers are down on Russel, why not see what you can do there. In no way am I saying we should be frontunners, but Pax needs to be aggressive.

[bmags]

There's a reason Thibs has shut up and not said anything. He knew the clown show would collapse under the tent.

[Jenksismyhero]

There's a reason Thibs has shut up and not said anything. He knew the clown show would collapse under the tent.

 

Thibs knew the roster would get crushed with injuries?

[Kyyle23]

Thibs knew the roster would get crushed with injuries?

 

The warning signs were there before the injuries

[ozzfest]

Thibs knew the roster would get crushed with injuries?

This roster is sh** even when healthy.

[Jordan4life_2007]

This roster is sh** even when healthy.

 

Big difference between not a legitimate title contender and s***. The Lakers? That's s***.

[thxfrthmmrs]

This roster is sh** even when healthy.

 

We know you're critical of Garpax, but this team is still the second most talent roster in the East when healthy. The have have been inconsistent, they have underperformed, and all the injuries did not help.

[Dick Allen]

We know you're critical of Garpax, but this team is still the second most talent roster in the East when healthy. The have have been inconsistent, they have underperformed, and all the injuries did not help.

The problem is none of the guys getting hurt are anything new. They have all been missing games the last few years. Even Butler. It was a nice theory all the injuries were on Thibs, but this is and has been and injury prone roster, how the people getting paid to make the roster haven't been able to see that is beyond puzzling.

 

Rose missing a game with overall soreness with Butler out and the team reeling shows what an anti leader he is. Oh, he will be good to go on Wednesday bi put can't play at all on Monday when the team needs him. They need to do what they can do to see he is on another team as soon as possible.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Dick Allen

[thxfrthmmrs]

The problem is none of the guys getting hurt are anything new. They have all been missing games the last few years. Even Butler. It was a nice theory all the injuries were on Thibs, but this is and has been and injury prone roster, how the people getting paid to make the roster haven't been able to see that is beyond puzzling.

 

Rose missing a game with overall soreness with Butler out and the team reeling shows what an anti leader he is. Oh, he will be good to go on Wednesday bi put can't play at all on Monday when the team needs him. They need to do what they can do to see he is on another team as soon as possible.

 

Injury or no injury, this team is far from "s***".

 

I don't deny that this is an injury prone roster, but I doubt many gm's in the league would be able to do much about it with NBA's salary floor and ceiling limits. If Rose and Noah had an injury history before they signed their extension, then it's a fireable offense to sign them to their current deals. But the fact that they became injury prone after their extension makes it unfair to blame it on the GM entirely.

 

Could Garpax have made some minor moves to improve the depth of the team in case of injuries? Sure, they could have. But could they have swung blockbuster deals to move Noah and Rose? I don't think so, no one would take a flier on those guys at that money.

[bmags]

Thibs knew the roster would get crushed with injuries?

 

Yes, that's the only problem with the bulls. Injuries.

[Y2Jimmy0]

The bring back Thibodeau people are humorous. Would they have a better record with Thibs? Yes. Would they probably get knocked out of the playoffs in the 1st or 2nd round with either coach? Yes. Tom had his issues. Hoiberg has issues. This is a very flawed roster that doesn't like playing with one another and it was the same way last year.

[Jenksismyhero]

Yes, that's the only problem with the bulls. Injuries.

 

Like in the other thread, what should the Bulls have done? Not hope that McDermott and Mirotic panned out? Should they have scrapped those plans after one season? Or the injuries to Noah and Dunleavy? Was that really foreseeable? Or now Butler?

 

I mean come on guys, this is 99% on injuries. The roster was never good enough to compete with GSW or SA or maybe even Cleveland. But given the circumstances, the roster was probably the best they could do with Rose still on the roster commanding 25 mil a year.

[bmags]

That doesn't mean they did well. I like all of the smaller pieces/role pieces the other top teams have acquired over the bulls.

 

You guys are so literally minded. The bulls for 4 years now have relied on vet min PGs to back-up rose. It worked until it didn't. They committed their other small mid-money amount to Hinrich. That's a bad signing. They reserved their Boozer cap space to Gasol.

 

Gasol has played well, but he was odd at the time and has clearly not worked out now. His style and position openly conflicted with our C Noah. It put a ridiculous amount of our resources to frontcourt, while our backcourt continued to thin out and become old, slow, or one dimensional.

 

There are a huge number of possibilities in using assets. If people only looked at the trades that happened and FAs that signed, you would say "what could they have done?!". But nobody would look at how the Heat have stayed relevant and found any of those moves obvious.

 

The signing of Gasol and overvaluing of Niko were mistakes. The trading of two 1st round picks for McDermott was a mistake. Each of those resources could have been applied toward better assets and players that fit their inevitable shift to Hoiberg.

 

Would they be contenders for the title? I don't know or care, their job is clearly to put the best team on the court at all times and they failed for the last 3 years at every decision point with the exception of Dunleavy, nate robinson and hopefully, hopefully Bobby Portis.

[Brian]

Snell is just sitting in the dark corner, hiding from criticism.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Brian

[Chisoxfn]

The bring back Thibodeau people are humorous. Would they have a better record with Thibs? Yes. Would they probably get knocked out of the playoffs in the 1st or 2nd round with either coach? Yes. Tom had his issues. Hoiberg has issues. This is a very flawed roster that doesn't like playing with one another and it was the same way last year.

I don't really think Tom had issues. Other than you could say he should have done a better job getting along with Gar (but how do we know Gar didn't just totally sabotage him anyway). Gar seems like the "I'll throw anyone under the bus" possible type of guy. Who knows what he did to Tom that ultimately created the rift. All I know is Tom was a much better coach than Hoiberg and was one of the elite coaches in the league. Whomever gets him will be extremely lucky and I think in hindsight, Jerry has to realize the best course might have been to cut the middle man out (Gar) and see if Pax and Tom could have worked things out (essentially bought a year without Gar in the mix to see if it would help...especially based upon the reports that Thibs always, even to this day, respected Pax.

[bmags]

I don't really think Tom had issues. Other than you could say he should have done a better job getting along with Gar (but how do we know Gar didn't just totally sabotage him anyway). Gar seems like the "I'll throw anyone under the bus" possible type of guy. Who knows what he did to Tom that ultimately created the rift. All I know is Tom was a much better coach than Hoiberg and was one of the elite coaches in the league. Whomever gets him will be extremely lucky and I think in hindsight, Jerry has to realize the best course might have been to cut the middle man out (Gar) and see if Pax and Tom could have worked things out (essentially bought a year without Gar in the mix to see if it would help...especially based upon the reports that Thibs always, even to this day, respected Pax.

 

Well, it certainly seemed like the firing of Ron Adams really accelerated things.

 

(should be noted Ron Adams now an assistant coach on one of the best teams ever, to this point)

[bmags]

Snell is just sitting in the dark corner, hiding from criticism.

 

I didn't include him in the positives to last 3 years.

[Dick Allen]

Like in the other thread, what should the Bulls have done? Not hope that McDermott and Mirotic panned out? Should they have scrapped those plans after one season? Or the injuries to Noah and Dunleavy? Was that really foreseeable? Or now Butler?

 

I mean come on guys, this is 99% on injuries. The roster was never good enough to compete with GSW or SA or maybe even Cleveland. But given the circumstances, the roster was probably the best they could do with Rose still on the roster commanding 25 mil a year.

One thing they could have done was not bring back the entire roster except Portis for Nazr and proclaim it a championship roster. You are saying the roster is flawed. GarPax didn't see it that way, and were willing to pay $9 million to show everyone the thing holding back the Bulls was their coach. To me, that's fireable. It isn't a championship roster if everyone is healthy, and to expect this particular group of players to be healthy is beyond crazy as well. Gar called it a championship roster. He should be held accountable to his words.

[Chisoxfn]

Well, it certainly seemed like the firing of Ron Adams really accelerated things.

 

(should be noted Ron Adams now an assistant coach on one of the best teams ever, to this point)

Yep. That was an awful move. Ron was widely viewed as one of the top assistants in the league and has done nothing but excel elsewhere.

 

[Chisoxfn]

One thing they could have done was not bring back the entire roster except Portis for Nazr and proclaim it a championship roster. You are saying the roster is flawed. GarPax didn't see it that way, and were willing to pay $9 million to show everyone the thing holding back the Bulls was their coach. To me, that's fireable. It isn't a championship roster if everyone is healthy, and to expect this particular group of players to be healthy is beyond crazy as well. Gar called it a championship roster. He should be held accountable to his words.

Yep. The statement Gar made was that the roster issues were on the coach and that this team either needed a new coach or more time to gel. Clearly he was wrong and as Pau has pointed out this is the same team from a year ago (only worse to be frank). Now it has suffered more injuries than last year, but it still hasn't been on the same level and the team is headed in the wrong direction. This is an indictment on Gar and it is why I fully expect him to get canned. I really am curious if things change in-season or not or if Pax is going to give him a shot to correct things at the trade deadline?

 

You also have to wonder if Paxson has increased his role lately? Or what sort of conversations Jerry has had with John.

[Dick Allen]

Yep. That was an awful move. Ron was widely viewed as one of the top assistants in the league and has done nothing but excel elsewhere.

Another Gar signature move.

 

If this team stayed healthy, or if this teamed played well enough, I could easily say, Gar you were right, the blame here was on Thibs. That was not the case at all. I don't know how anyone at this point can say they had no problem with the Bulls firing Thibs, but would find it wrong firing Gar and/or Pax. Does Jimmy Butler develop into the player he is without Thibs? You have to figure if he developed into the player under Hoiberg, Gar would be singing his praises, not leaking stuff to the press how most of the players didn't like playing for Thibs.

 

The hack job they did on Thibs out the door, and the way the team has not done any better this year, should be a huge embarrassment to the organization.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Dick Allen