harkness99 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) 1. yet another dumb fundamental play by a white sox player... happens over and over. 2. Pitching to murphy. The incompetence is pretty amazing. Now IF they work on that in practice and Abreu screwed it up... However how many times do we see these dumb mistakes? Edited August 13, 2015 by harkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Said in the game thread, but no way you can blame the coaches for Abreu's blunder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 12, 2015 -> 10:18 PM) Said in the game thread, but no way you can blame the coaches for Abreu's blunder. So when players make tactical mistakes you can't blame the coaching staff? Say what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (harkness @ Aug 12, 2015 -> 10:38 PM) So when players make tactical mistakes you can't blame the coaching staff? Say what? It's not like this is an isolated incident. Team's just not mentally into games. Players change, the manager hasn't. Same story for 4 years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Abreu is a terrible fielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Sox won because in a battle of suck the Angels sucked more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 These are big league players. A manager shouldn't have to go over "Baseball 101" with these guys. In fact I think it would be borderline insulting to have them work on things like where to go with the baseball in certain situations. It was just a brain fart on Abreus part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 12, 2015 -> 09:19 PM) * I can't believe somebody didn't scream "throw it home" to Abreu. He had plenty of time. All he had to do was look home and he had plenty of time to make the right play. Baseball is a weird sport. Danks works his ass off to get the easy 2-1 win. Robertson does the job. All Abreu has to do is not commit the dumbest mental error imaginable ... yet he commits that mental error. Obviously don't like the sox chances with Duke in the game. This loss will be almost as bad as the McEwing gift to the opponent loss. The Sox managed to win, but we've seen some really dubious plays out of Ramirez and Abreu, and Viciedo as well. One just has to wonder how much time is dedicated to fundamentals in the youth programs over there, where signing bonuses are related to speed, athletic ability, how far you can hit the ball or how hard you can throw it...there's that saying in the Dominican you can't walk your way off the island. The Latin American style of play tends to be more exciting and dynamic, whereas the polar opposite is to be found in Japan, Korea and Taiwan...it's all about what they choose to focus on, developmentally. IMO the Asian style of play is much more team-based. Iguchi, for example, almost never made a mental mistake. And it's not about specific countries or IQ, as Ozzie Guillen and Jose Valentin were off the charts in terms of baseball intuition/smarts/instincts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 12:20 AM) Abreu is a terrible fielder. Living in New England, I was estatic when the White Sox got Abreu instead of the Red Sox. I remember reading the Red Sox stopped at $50 mil because they felt Abreu was eventually only going to be a DH and they figured Ortiz still had a few years left in the tank. He is certainly a gifted offensive player, but I hope the White Sox knew going in that he would struggle in the field. Hopefully when the sox dump LaRoche, they move Abreu to DH age withstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Watching this game, it was actually the Angels who made a lot more mistakes than the White Sox, even with the legendary Mike Scioscia on the bench. They looked nothing like a first place team, not only in that game, but in that series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 08:07 AM) Watching this game, it was actually the Angels who made a lot more mistakes than the White Sox, even with the legendary Mike Scioscia on the bench. They looked nothing like a first place team, not only in that game, but in that series. I don't really remember any could you name a few? Not saying you are wrong. Edited August 13, 2015 by harkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Aug 12, 2015 -> 11:20 PM) Abreu is a terrible fielder. Actually he isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 08:07 AM) Watching this game, it was actually the Angels who made a lot more mistakes than the White Sox, even with the legendary Mike Scioscia on the bench. They looked nothing like a first place team, not only in that game, but in that series. Mike Scioscia and Kenny Williams have the same legacy deal going on, they are both living off one great season 10+ years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (SCCWS @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 07:46 AM) Living in New England, I was estatic when the White Sox got Abreu instead of the Red Sox. I remember reading the Red Sox stopped at $50 mil because they felt Abreu was eventually only going to be a DH and they figured Ortiz still had a few years left in the tank. He is certainly a gifted offensive player, but I hope the White Sox knew going in that he would struggle in the field. Hopefully when the sox dump LaRoche, they move Abreu to DH age withstanding. The Red Sox were actually going to try him at 3B. I am not aiming this next statement at the post I responded to, but it truly amazes me how some actually think Robin needs to tell Abreu his stepping on the bag eliminates the force and lets the runner score. Does he have to tell him every day? Does he have to remind the infielders on a grounder they should throw to first base? Where does this end? When your kids screw up, do you discipline them, or do you discipline yourself for something that apparently was your failure? Edited August 13, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:03 AM) The Red Sox were actually going to try him at 3B. Abreu has 6 errors which puts him among the leaders in that category. However Abreu has made a ton of good plays at 1b, and he makes a lot of good throws. He isn't great but he isn't terrible either. Frank Thomas was terrible... but no one cared because back then no one cared about Fangraphs and WAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (harkness @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 08:54 AM) I don't really remember any could you name a few? Not saying you are wrong. The Angels had two runners thrown out on the bases last night for starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:03 AM) The Red Sox were actually going to try him at 3B. I am not aiming this next statement at the post I responded to, but it truly amazes me how some actually think Robin needs to tell Abreu his stepping on the bag eliminates the force and lets the runner score. Does he have to tell him every day? Does he have to remind the infielders on a grounder they should throw to first base? Where does this end? When your kids screw up, do you discipline them, or do you discipline yourself for something that apparently was your failure? I really don't know how much major league managers and coaching staffs go over situational baseball. If Ventura assumed Abreu knows what to do in that situation - then that's bad coaching. If they have gone over it and Abreu messed it up.. then Abreu takes more of the fault. As far as the parent analogy goes. If my kids are constantly screwing up - it very well could be my fault for not knowing how to guide them - but yes sometimes there isn't much any parent can do. However when you see a team make so many fundamental mistakes it's not unreasonable to see the fault in the coaches. That's completely reasonable. It MAY not be their fault but to infer it is their fault is not fanatical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:13 AM) The Angels had two runners thrown out on the bases last night for starters. Another worth noting is the Angels had runners on 3rd and less than two outs once last night in extra innings, and didn't score. They had a runner on 3rd base 3 times in extra innings and didn't score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (harkness @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:18 AM) I really don't know how much major league managers and coaching staffs go over situational baseball. If Ventura assumed Abreu knows what to do in that situation - then that's bad coaching. If they have gone over it and Abreu messed it up.. then Abreu takes more of the fault. As far as the parent analogy goes. If my kids are constantly screwing up - it very well could be my fault for not knowing how to guide them - but yes sometimes there isn't much any parent can do. However when you see a team make so many fundamental mistakes it's not unreasonable to see the fault in the coaches. That's completely reasonable. It MAY not be their fault but to infer it is their fault is not fanatical. Yet against the worst pitcher in the league, and against a team with a horrible, historically bad offense, and perhaps the dumbest manager in history, the Angels lost, and were swept. Amazing how that could possibly happen. Edited August 13, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:13 AM) The Angels had two runners thrown out on the bases last night for starters. Are you talking about Connor out on the line drive? That's the only play I can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:21 AM) Yet against the worst pitcher in the league, and against a team with a horrible, historically bad offense, and perhaps the dumbest manager in history, the Angels lost, and were swept. Amazing how that could possibly happen. It's baseball - the manager's effect on the outcome (as you have said 1000 times) is often not important... doesn't change the perception of competence or incompetence. Bad teams having winning streaks all the time. The series last night doesn't define Ventura or the White Sox team this year. We will know at the end. Danks actually has been pitching well lately... sure hope it lasts. Edited August 13, 2015 by harkness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (harkness @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:28 AM) It's baseball - the manager's effect on the outcome (as you have said 1000 times) is often not important... doesn't change the perception of competence or incompetence. Bad teams having winning streaks all the time. The series last night doesn't define Ventura or the White Sox team this year. We will know at the end. Danks actually has been pitching well lately... sure hope it lasts. Then why did you start this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (harkness @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:23 AM) Are you talking about Connor out on the line drive? That's the only play I can remember. Trout was thrown out at home as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:31 AM) Then why did you start this thread? I didn't say it NEVER effects the outcome of the game. They play 162 games. I thought the lack of fundamentals and the decision making were going to cost the White Sox the game... luckily it didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2015 -> 09:33 AM) Trout was thrown out at home as well. Yeah I missed a couple innings I never saw that play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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