The Sox should maybe trade for Hanley Ramirez

[southsider2k5]

The Dodgers didn't mind his baseball hitting.

 

So much so, the deepest wallets in baseball let him walk away...

 

[Vance Law]

There are a relatively finite number of humans on earth with a shot at being an average-or-above major league third baseman in 2016.

 

If not Hanley, who could/should the Sox plausibly get to play there and upgrade the offense next year?

[Quin]

There are a relatively finite number of humans on earth with a shot at being an average-or-above major league third baseman in 2016.

 

If not Hanley, who could/should the Sox plausibly get to play there and upgrade the offense next year?

 

I'd honestly rather Saladino.

[Knackattack]

There are a relatively finite number of humans on earth with a shot at being an average-or-above major league third baseman in 2016.

 

If not Hanley, who could/should the Sox plausibly get to play there and upgrade the offense next year?

They'll play Saladino there most likely and sit and hope Michalczewski can man the spot at some point in 2017

 

And honestly if Saladino bats somewhere from 7-9 and puts up D like he has this year at that spot I'd be happy with him there.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Knackattack

[CanOfCorn]

How 'bout the fact that it would probably take Q? So, then the Sox would lose Shark AND Q? And replace them with who?

 

Obviously, Shark is probably gone, but replacing two starters is not the best idea.

[Eminor3rd]

.907 OPS for 2013-2014. 8.4 fWAR in a season and a quarter (216 games) with decent defense all at shortstop. There is some price in $$ and prospects at which it is a good idea to acquire him. I don't know what that is. If not him, who, to improve at 3rd base? If not 3rd base, improvement from where? Throw infinity dollars at Matt Wieters and his 104 wRC+ (career 99 wRC+)?

 

He got that fWAR by playing a passable SS. Whichever team he's playing for next year isn't getting that out of him.

[Balta1701]

How 'bout the fact that it would probably take Q? So, then the Sox would lose Shark AND Q? And replace them with who?

 

Obviously, Shark is probably gone, but replacing two starters is not the best idea.

I can't think of any situation where I would do a deal centered around Q and Hanley Ramirez being exchanged. I don't think I'd do that if the Red Sox were paying Hanley's entire salary. If I picked which of the 2 I thought would perform better over the next 5 years I'd absolutely go with Quintana - he hasn't had the peak years of Hanley but he's much younger and seems to be vastly more consistent whereas Hanley has a much larger downside risk (see this year) and Quintana's salary isn't a big deal.

[GreenSox]

How 'bout the fact that it would probably take Q? So, then the Sox would lose Shark AND Q? And replace them with who?

What would take Q?

Henley Ramirez, who the Bosox overpaid when he was available as a Free Agent?

Get real. It would take taking his contract and a bag of balls.

 

The hero worship of decent hitters in their 30s is beyond belief.

No wonder the Sox keep acquiring these stiffs...just doing the bidding of much of the fanbase.

 

You can see the irrationality when people discuss Avi (a problem) v. Melky (doing well) when the reality is they're hitting about the same (and the "problem" is young, cheap and could improve).

 

The Sox need to find a C, 3B, 2b, SS, and OF. They don't need to fill all of those to contend, just 3 or 4. If they can't find a 3B, stick with Saladino. in the meantime, give the in-house young players a chance. it may take trading Q; it may take trading someone like Eaton for a young 3b. But what won't solve it is getting a bunch of Henleys, Melkys or Laroches.

Edited August 19, 2015 by GreenSox

[BlackSox13]

Unless Boston is willing to pay a majority of Ramirez's contract, no thanks. Also, Ramirez would have to DH as there is no way he should play 3B.

 

Thankfully, Boston is stuck with that bad contract.

[Vance Law]

Also, Ramirez would have to DH as there is no way he should play 3B.

 

Nope. He was an above average defensive shortstop 2 years ago and an acceptable one last year. There's little to suggest he couldn't handle third base.

 

I'm not arguing that Hanley's without warts or even that this is the best solution. More arguing against dumb counterarguments at this point.

 

With a team that has been deficient offensively and in need of upgrades at least somewhere, and with a glut of middle infield options under control, and with the virtual non-existence of catchers who can hit, so far I've seen the suggestion of no human who could/should play 3rd base for the White Sox in 2016 other than Tyler Saladino. Anybody who is smart and often has interesting things to say have any other possible thoughts? Eminor? Anyone?

[Y2Jimmy0]

Nope. He was an above average defensive shortstop 2 years ago and an acceptable one last year. There's little to suggest he couldn't handle third base.

 

I'm not arguing that Hanley's without warts or even that this is the best solution. More arguing against dumb counterarguments at this point.

 

With a team that has been deficient offensively and in need of upgrades at least somewhere, and with a glut of middle infield options under control, and with the virtual non-existence of catchers who can hit, so far I've seen the suggestion of no human who could/should play 3rd base for the White Sox in 2016 other than Tyler Saladino. Anybody who is smart and often has interesting things to say have any other possible thoughts? Eminor? Anyone?

 

 

I agree that it's worth looking into. Hanley can rake. He still can. I'd take him if Boston paid most of the bill and put him at DH. The "hell no" and "no way" and "absolutely not" statements can't really be taken seriously at this point when the offense is as bad as it is. I need to see the deal before I really comment one way or another.

[BlackSox13]

Nope. He was an above average defensive shortstop 2 years ago and an acceptable one last year. There's little to suggest he couldn't handle third base.

 

I'm not arguing that Hanley's without warts or even that this is the best solution. More arguing against dumb counterarguments at this point.

 

With a team that has been deficient offensively and in need of upgrades at least somewhere, and with a glut of middle infield options under control, and with the virtual non-existence of catchers who can hit, so far I've seen the suggestion of no human who could/should play 3rd base for the White Sox in 2016 other than Tyler Saladino. Anybody who is smart and often has interesting things to say have any other possible thoughts? Eminor? Anyone?

So a good idea is to plug the 3B hole with an aging veteran like Ramirez that has not played 3rd consistently since 2012?

 

You're asking for suggestions to a problem that involves trading for another teams player that we do not know is available. I can throw Chase Headley's name out there as a viable solution to the Sox 3B hole but how viable is that solution if the Yanks want to keep Headley?

 

You are correct in saying there's nothing to suggest Ramirez cannot play 3B but there's nothing to suggest he can either. I'm not against having Ramirez bat in the lineup, just not in favor of his salary nor am I willing to take a chance on his glove at 3B. Ramirez turning 32 in December does not help his case either.

 

I would rather have Saladino at 3B with Hanley at DH than LaRoche at DH and Hanley at 3B.

[Balta1701]

I agree that it's worth looking into. Hanley can rake. He still can. I'd take him if Boston paid most of the bill and put him at DH. The "hell no" and "no way" and "absolutely not" statements can't really be taken seriously at this point when the offense is as bad as it is. I need to see the deal before I really comment one way or another.

I'd be more willing to consider it if people weren't bringing up things like "Quintana" for him. If we're going to take him it's because Boston is dropping him for much less than what he's worth. While you say "he can still rake", he's been a negative value player this year and that can't be ignored. There is a solid chance he'll recover next year, but there is also a solid chance that his bat will slowly decline from here while his glove gets worse from here.

 

If Boston was throwing in lots of money then I could maybe be convinced to give up the kind of deal for him the White Sox gave up for Samardzija, a deal where we sacrifice more of our thin minor league depth for him, or maybe clear out something like Robertson, but I'm not going to give up top flight pieces even if Boston is chipping in a lot of money, given that risk, and Boston IMO isn't likely to dump him for such little value that I'd be interested unless they are 100% convinced he's finished.

[BlackSox13]

I'd be more willing to consider it if people weren't bringing up things like "Quintana" for him. If we're going to take him it's because Boston is dropping him for much less than what he's worth. While you say "he can still rake", he's been a negative value player this year and that can't be ignored. There is a solid chance he'll recover next year, but there is also a solid chance that his bat will slowly decline from here while his glove gets worse from here.

 

If Boston was throwing in lots of money then I could maybe be convinced to give up the kind of deal for him the White Sox gave up for Samardzija, a deal where we sacrifice more of our thin minor league depth for him, or maybe clear out something like Robertson, but I'm not going to give up top flight pieces even if Boston is chipping in a lot of money, given that risk, and Boston IMO isn't likely to dump him for such little value that I'd be interested unless they are 100% convinced he's finished.

Seriously man. What is with Q's name always being thrown around? I remember when Sox fans were willing to trade Q for Jason Castro less than two years ago.

 

 

[SCCWS]

What would take Q?

Henley Ramirez, who the Bosox overpaid when he was available as a Free Agent?

Get real. It would take taking his contract and a bag of balls.

 

The hero worship of decent hitters in their 30s is beyond belief.

No wonder the Sox keep acquiring these stiffs...just doing the bidding of much of the fanbase.

 

You can see the irrationality when people discuss Avi (a problem) v. Melky (doing well) when the reality is they're hitting about the same (and the "problem" is young, cheap and could improve).

 

The Sox need to find a C, 3B, 2b, SS, and OF. They don't need to fill all of those to contend, just 3 or 4. If they can't find a 3B, stick with Saladino. in the meantime, give the in-house young players a chance. it may take trading Q; it may take trading someone like Eaton for a young 3b. But what won't solve it is getting a bunch of Henleys, Melkys or Laroches.

 

We traded for a young 3B and he is struggling at AAA, It isn't getting young players or older players. It really comes down to getting the right players. Nelson Cruz and Kendry Morales are older players who are having really good years on their new teams.

 

[Eminor3rd]

Nope. He was an above average defensive shortstop 2 years ago and an acceptable one last year. There's little to suggest he couldn't handle third base.

 

I'm not arguing that Hanley's without warts or even that this is the best solution. More arguing against dumb counterarguments at this point.

 

With a team that has been deficient offensively and in need of upgrades at least somewhere, and with a glut of middle infield options under control, and with the virtual non-existence of catchers who can hit, so far I've seen the suggestion of no human who could/should play 3rd base for the White Sox in 2016 other than Tyler Saladino. Anybody who is smart and often has interesting things to say have any other possible thoughts? Eminor? Anyone?

 

There's "can be" and there's "will be." He "can be" a decent defensive LF, but he isn't. It's mental.

[southsider2k5]

Nope. He was an above average defensive shortstop 2 years ago and an acceptable one last year. There's little to suggest he couldn't handle third base.

 

I'm not arguing that Hanley's without warts or even that this is the best solution. More arguing against dumb counterarguments at this point.

 

With a team that has been deficient offensively and in need of upgrades at least somewhere, and with a glut of middle infield options under control, and with the virtual non-existence of catchers who can hit, so far I've seen the suggestion of no human who could/should play 3rd base for the White Sox in 2016 other than Tyler Saladino. Anybody who is smart and often has interesting things to say have any other possible thoughts? Eminor? Anyone?

 

Yes there is. He doesn't want to. He is lazy and has no interest at working at getting better in LF, why would 3B be different?

[Vance Law]

Yes there is. He doesn't want to. He is lazy and has no interest at working at getting better in LF, why would 3B be different?

 

His entire career he played short, which is 3rd but harder. 3rd is just shortstop for lazy people. By your definition he's a perfect fit.

 

Near as we can tell, he's never played outfield in his life until starting this year in Fenway.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I'd be more willing to consider it if people weren't bringing up things like "Quintana" for him. If we're going to take him it's because Boston is dropping him for much less than what he's worth. While you say "he can still rake", he's been a negative value player this year and that can't be ignored. There is a solid chance he'll recover next year, but there is also a solid chance that his bat will slowly decline from here while his glove gets worse from here.

 

If Boston was throwing in lots of money then I could maybe be convinced to give up the kind of deal for him the White Sox gave up for Samardzija, a deal where we sacrifice more of our thin minor league depth for him, or maybe clear out something like Robertson, but I'm not going to give up top flight pieces even if Boston is chipping in a lot of money, given that risk, and Boston IMO isn't likely to dump him for such little value that I'd be interested unless they are 100% convinced he's finished.

 

 

Yeah we agree on this.

[southsider2k5]

His entire career he played short, which is 3rd but harder. 3rd is just shortstop for lazy people. By your definition he's a perfect fit.

 

Near as we can tell, he's never played outfield in his life until starting this year in Fenway.

 

This is the player we are talking about.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7323887/...ove-source-says

 

DALLAS -- Hanley Ramirez has informed the Miami Marlins that he does not want to move from shortstop to third base, a source told ESPNDeportesLosAngeles.com on Tuesday.

 

Ramirez, a three-time All-Star and a career .306 hitter in six full seasons, would have to change position because of the Marlins' free-agent addition of Jose Reyes, who agreed to a six-year, $106 million contract Sunday.

 

"Hanley doesn't want to play third base and the Marlins were informed of that," the source said. "Rather than ask for a trade, what he has done is to inform (the team) that he does not want to play another position other than shortstop."

 

Meanwhile, Andy Mota, Ramirez's agent, told ESPNDeportesLosAngeles.com he had no comment.

 

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/ba...ing-to-infield/

 

There have been plenty of attempts to find a solution to what some perceive as the Red Sox‘ positional problem. One of them has been to place Hanley Ramirez in a spot other than left field, where he remains a work in progress.

 

But when asked prior to the Red Sox‘ 1-0 loss to the Orioles if he envisioned making a return to the infield any time in the future (near or far), Ramirez was definitive in his response.

 

“Hell, no,” he said.

 

Even a place such as first base, where there wouldn’t be the need for the kind of mobility warranted at his old positions, shortstop and third base?

 

“Me? Hell, no,” Ramirez once again responded. “I’m just an employee here so I just want to win. It’s just like where I hit in the lineup. Wherever they think I should be to win, that’s what I’m here for.

 

“But I consider myself an outfielder.”

[Eminor3rd]

This is the player we are talking about.

 

http://streamable.com/oq6h?t=1.2

Edited August 20, 2015 by Eminor3rd

[southsider2k5]

http://streamable.com/oq6h?t=1.2

 

Yeah, if we are taking on a Red Sox with a bloated contract to play 3rd, I'd much rather take a chance on the fat guy. Does that tell you something? Again, the only way I consider Hanley is if Boston pays up like Anaheim did to get rid of Josh Hamilton.