Jose Abreu Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 09:25 PM) We have the 10th most wins in baseball since 2000. Where did you find that stat? I'm interested in knowing how many wins we have since the start of the 07 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 07:46 PM) Where did you find that stat? I'm interested in knowing how many wins we have since the start of the 07 season. Baseball reference. We have 683 wins, as of today, since the start of the 2007 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 09:47 PM) Baseball reference. We have 683 wins, as of today, since the start of the 2007 season. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 08:13 PM) thanks! That is middle of the pack, at 16th in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) People dog the FO for 2009-2013 but damn those teams looked solid. The trades for JFP & TCQ looked ilike absolute masterpieces and the dudes just didn't work out. Nobody could have predicted their injuries and the wins they cost us. Healthy TCQ and healthy JFP and we're talking about plenty of division titles IMO. I think you're an asshole if you blame the FO for lack of playoffs post 2008. Edited August 20, 2015 by Jerksticks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Jerksticks: Those teams also had major holes. Here's one example. Kenny thought that he'd be fine with 40% of the starting rotation in 2009 being filled by a beat up, injury prone Jose' Contreras and a pre steroid Bartolo Colon. In fact in an ironic twist, the day after Buehrle's perfect game with the Sox in first place by a game if I remember correctly, those two started a crucial DH in Detroit. The results were predictable. It was all downhill from there. No you can't fault the front office for 100% of the issues that have prevented this team from reaching the post season since 2008, that would be unfair. Just as it is also unfair to basically say they were blameless. Injuries are part of the game, the Sox have had their share including 2010 when almost all of the bullpen was on the DL at various times in August and they blew game after game and a playoff spot. But here's the thing....the Cardinals have been blown apart by injuries to key guys over the past five years. They keep making the playoffs. The Yankees had a few seasons where they were gutted by injuries...yet somehow they still won 88-90 games. How do those teams do it? That's something the Sox front office needs to be asking themselves as well as the fans. Just my opinion. Mark Edited August 20, 2015 by Lip Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 08:37 PM) Jerksticks: Those teams also had major holes. Here's one example. Kenny thought that he'd be fine with 40% of the starting rotation in 2009 being filled by a beat up, injury prone Jose' Contreras and a pre steroid Bartolo Colon. In fact in an ironic twist, the day after Buehrle's perfect game with the Sox in first place by a game if I remember correctly, those two started a crucial DH in Detroit. The results were predictable. It was all downhill from there. No you can't fault the front office for 100% of the issues that have prevented this team from reaching the post season since 2008, that would be unfair. Just as it is also unfair to basically say they were blameless. Injuries are part of the game, the Sox have had their share including 2010 when almost all of the bullpen was on the DL at various times in August and they blew game after game and a playoff spot. But here's the thing....the Cardinals have been blown apart by injuries to key guys over the past five years. They keep making the playoffs. The Yankees had a few seasons where they were gutted by injuries...yet somehow they still won 88-90 games. How do those teams do it? That's something the Sox front office needs to be asking themselves as well as the fans. Just my opinion. Mark Mark, you make some good points. I don't think anyone is saying the White Sox as an organization are run as well as the Cardinals have been over the past 10-15 years. However, that doesn't lead one to the conclusion that our FO should be fired, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 09:45 PM) Mark, you make some good points. I don't think anyone is saying the White Sox as an organization are run as well as the Cardinals have been over the past 10-15 years. However, that doesn't lead one to the conclusion that our FO should be fired, either. I would think getting fired in this organization is hard to do. There is no doubt there is contentment in mediocrity and they even fail at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 09:02 PM) In 2008 they still drew >30k a game. That's pretty unfair. Down for the second consecutive year, and how much from the peak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...ender/32030123/ Bob NIghtengale again saying that he expects Kenny Williams to take over in Seattle or Toronto. Very interesting stuff. Nightengale is pretty plugged in with White Sox info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 09:40 PM) That is why I went out of my way to mention my impression of the rosters and not just the result of the on field play. I clearly pointed out the disparity I see there. If the results on the field don't match up to your impression of the rosters year after year after year, then maybe those rosters weren't put together as well as it first appeared. I realize players underachieve at teams, but are you really gonna blame the players for 7 consecutive years of disappointment? That seems to be your basis for keeping this FO, well that and "Hey, at least we aren't the Mariners" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 05:16 AM) If the results on the field don't match up to your impression of the rosters year after year after year, then maybe those rosters weren't put together as well as it first appeared. I realize players underachieve at teams, but are you really gonna blame the players for 7 consecutive years of disappointment? That seems to be your basis for keeping this FO, well that and "Hey, at least we aren't the Mariners" That's a fair criticism of the FO. Obviously this is a chicken or the egg conundrum. I guess if it were up to me, I would look to make other changes prior to changing the FO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 07:23 AM) That's a fair criticism of the FO. Obviously this is a chicken or the egg conundrum. I guess if it were up to me, I would look to make other changes prior to changing the FO. The #1 problem has been the inability to develop a single player who can hit the ball well. That leads having to scour the free agent/waiver/trade market for veteran bats, which has proven to not be an ideal recipe for success. Who do you blame for that then? That's the million dollar question. Jerry's refusal to spend in the draft had an effect, but the problem lies deeper than that IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 04:45 AM) Mark, you make some good points. I don't think anyone is saying the White Sox as an organization are run as well as the Cardinals have been over the past 10-15 years. However, that doesn't lead one to the conclusion that our FO should be fired, either. the blame has to fall on someone. i think that the sox owners are a major part, if not should absorb all of the blame. reason, it is per the owners directive on how the team is going to compete and with what kind of monetary budget. within that policy, the president / gm has to make it work. now, here is the question, are the sox getting the best value from their signings and players. old, injured players > retreads. poor advice on scouting poor decision making on players chosen poor field personnel to run the team lastly the one that hurts, whether it should be #1 is the lousy drafting. all this starts at the very top and trickle down the chain of incompetence, or what is commonly referred to the sox FO. it is obvious the owners are not going no where...... so where to you make the changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 i wonder if there is anyone in the org that will have the iintestinal fortitude to tell the owners, it is their fault for the state of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 07:35 AM) The #1 problem has been the inability to develop a single player who can hit the ball well. That leads having to scour the free agent/waiver/trade market for veteran bats, which has proven to not be an ideal recipe for success. Who do you blame for that then? That's the million dollar question. Jerry's refusal to spend in the draft had an effect, but the problem lies deeper than that IMO. The absolute biggest criticism you can make of the Kenny Williams era was his diversion of resources from the minor leaguers, to the major leaguers. I don't think it was Jerry's choice to short the majors as much as it was Kenny's in order to add as many pieces to the major league team. I also really think that has clearly changed with the Sox taking BPA for years now, and even starting to spend in Latin America again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 02:36 PM) The absolute biggest criticism you can make of the Kenny Williams era was his diversion of resources from the minor leaguers, to the major leaguers. I don't think it was Jerry's choice to short the majors as much as it was Kenny's in order to add as many pieces to the major league team. I also really think that has clearly changed with the Sox taking BPA for years now, and even starting to spend in Latin America again. nice..... really a nice post of history of this chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Could be partially related. Peter Gammons @pgammo 1m1 minute ago Toronto Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos could be the next GM domino to fall http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/toronto...s-ale@FoxSports … The Executive of the year--Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 So out of curiosity, does anyone know Kenny's contract situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 670 The Score @670TheScore 12m12 minutes ago "I think Robin Ventura stays put no matter what happens." @BNightengale to @SpiegelAndGoff on #WhiteSox future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 10:20 AM) So out of curiosity, does anyone know Kenny's contract situation? He is on a 1 year deal with an automatic rollover at some date. So he is always under contract for the current season and next. As for AA, it's pretty amazing how his stock has risen. He was praised last year for their offseason which didn't work out, and he started catching heat. This All Star break, they actually had a worse record than they did last All Star break, but he makes a couple moves that so far have worked really well, and he's back on the top of the mountain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 10:22 AM) 670 The Score @670TheScore 12m12 minutes ago "I think Robin Ventura stays put no matter what happens." @BNightengale to @SpiegelAndGoff on #WhiteSox future f*** it Zero accountability Edited August 20, 2015 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 10:23 AM) He is on a 1 year deal with an automatic rollover at some date. So he is always under contract for the current season and next. As for AA, it's pretty amazing how his stock has risen. He was praised last year for their offseason which didn't work out, and he started catching heat. This All Star break, they actually had a worse record than they did last All Star break, but he makes a couple moves that so far have worked really well, and he's back on the top of the mountain. So pretty much no matter what, Jerry will have to sign off on letting him talk to anyone else. Does that line up the potential for compensation when he is gone ala Theo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 10:26 AM) So pretty much no matter what, Jerry will have to sign off on letting him talk to anyone else. Does that line up the potential for compensation when he is gone ala Theo? I would imagine, although KW mentioned he almost resigned last year. So maybe he can be done with it that way. As far as compensation, I don't think that would be an issue. I still think KW would rather stay and be given a higher title. Reading Toronto stuff, they think the President needs to be a business guy not a baseball guy. Maybe KW can do that, but if he is going to make their current baseball ops guys run away, I wonder why they would hire him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 10:22 AM) 670 The Score @670TheScore 12m12 minutes ago "I think Robin Ventura stays put no matter what happens." @BNightengale to @SpiegelAndGoff on #WhiteSox future Not shocking in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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