Could White Sox trade some pitching to fill other areas in offseason

[captain54]

Actually, if they won 7 that they lost, they would be 7 over .500.

 

correct, my bad.. thanks for the heads up...

 

[SCCWS]

I'd be willing to take that risk of gambling with two slots in our 2016 rotation if we can further develop Fulmer and Montas in preparation for 2017. It would be the most intelligent move made by the organization in years. Sale/Rodon/Danks/Johnson/Whomever won't win any titles, but having Quintana and a similar lineup as this season won't either.

 

Quintana almost has to go. I'd be disappointed if he remained for another season, which lets be honest -- 2016 will more than likely be another mediocre season. We should all be estatic to be trading from a position of strength. If Quintana could land us one quality ML player and one top ten offensive prospect, I'd jump all over it. By the time either Fulmer or Montas (perhaps both) are ready we could have one hell of a rotation in 2017. We'd just have to be willing to throw caution to 2016, which I know many on here will make excuses to explain why it would never happen

 

 

I actually think Q could bring back 2 quality ML players

Edited August 22, 2015 by SCCWS

[BlackSox13]

He's still a >2 WAR pitcher. He still has value even if it's not worth what he thinks it is. He could just as easily destroy his value next year by sucking as he could rebuild it by rebounding a bit. For a guy who will turn 31 next year, it would be crazy not to take the maximum total dollars he can get this off season IMO.

That's the thing, it won't be easy for him to maximize total dollars with the plethora of pitching available combined with the season he's had and will be 31. In a sense he has already screwed himself by rejecting the cubs offer and going for FA all the while s***ting the bed in his last year before FA. I guess what I'm saying is, his value is already in the process of being destroyed. The best hope he has at maximizing his value is to take the QO and hope like hell he can rebound and hit paydirt after the 2016 season.

 

That said, I really hope he rejects the QO and is able to sign elsewhere. I cannot wait to be done with Samardzija.

[LDF]

That's the thing, it won't be easy for him to maximize total dollars with the plethora of pitching available combined with the season he's had and will be 31. In a sense he has already screwed himself by rejecting the cubs offer and going for FA all the while s***ting the bed in his last year before FA. I guess what I'm saying is, his value is already in the process of being destroyed. The best hope he has at maximizing his value is to take the QO and hope like hell he can rebound and hit paydirt after the 2016 season.

 

That said, I really hope he rejects the QO and is able to sign elsewhere. I cannot wait to be done with Samardzija.

 

on your opinions and hope, i agree big time.

 

this is why some agents do not want to wait for that last yr.

[LDF]

 

 

I actually think Q could bring back 2 quality ML players

 

if you are stating quality players, yeah 2+. i agree.

[Jose Abreu]

I believe the Red Sox still have some their top bullets in the minors though, correct? Don't they have a big time catching prospect, plus Yoan Moncada? That is a good starting point.

 

For Chris Sale, that's nothing. Boston prospects are always overrated, too.

[Jose Abreu]

Seems like the same thing was said about Hector Santiago not so long ago.

 

Hector Santiago is still very overrated. I believe his ERA/FIP differential is massive.

 

That being said, I still believe Montas is a future closer. He can't even average 5 innings per start in the minors.

[southsider2k5]

Seems like the same thing was said about Hector Santiago not so long ago.

 

And that took how long to happen, even after he got to the majors?

 

[Jose Abreu]

And that took how long to happen, even after he got to the majors?

It still hasn't happened

[gatnom]

That's the thing, it won't be easy for him to maximize total dollars with the plethora of pitching available combined with the season he's had and will be 31. In a sense he has already screwed himself by rejecting the cubs offer and going for FA all the while s***ting the bed in his last year before FA. I guess what I'm saying is, his value is already in the process of being destroyed. The best hope he has at maximizing his value is to take the QO and hope like hell he can rebound and hit paydirt after the 2016 season.

 

That said, I really hope he rejects the QO and is able to sign elsewhere. I cannot wait to be done with Samardzija.

 

This I can agree with. However, even if he could only get something like 4/50, that to me would be worth more than a QO. Of course, he's been expecting a big payday, so who knows what's going through his mind.

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Montas averages less than 5 IP per start. He'll be a reliever.

 

Sometime I roll my eyes when reading assessments like this . It's just such an easy thing to say. Montas has come a long way from where he was when the Sox acquired him. The right thing to do is build his arm strength and if he follows the same developmental curve he's been on there are good things ahead . Trading him at this point would be foolish because return would be minimal.

 

If he develops more he's a huge asset. Imagine Rodon, Fulmer , Montas , Eric Johnson , Sale , Quintana all being good and the leverage the Sox would have. 1 more year with all of them and see where they are. Failed starters can always be turned into relievers so lets keep them all starting.

[LDF]

Hector Santiago is still very overrated. I believe his ERA/FIP differential is massive.

 

That being said, I still believe Montas is a future closer. He can't even average 5 innings per start in the minors.

 

and people expects him to be in the majors, then yes, a closer.

 

but ino, this goes to show he needs another yr in the minors, a full yr.

[gatnom]

Sometime I roll my eyes when reading assessments like this . It's just such an easy thing to say. Montas has come a long way from where he was when the Sox acquired him. The right thing to do is build his arm strength and if he follows the same developmental curve he's been on there are good things ahead . Trading him at this point would be foolish because return would be minimal.

 

If he develops more he's a huge asset. Imagine Rodon, Fulmer , Montas , Eric Johnson , Sale , Quintana all being good and the leverage the Sox would have. 1 more year with all of them and see where they are. Failed starters can always be turned into relievers so lets keep them all starting.

 

Montas is the most obvious trade candidate in the system. His loud tools make him a sexy prospect, and it's dubious if he'll be able to continue starting down the road. But, right now you can sell him as being a starter with a big fastball.

 

 

[BlackSox13]

on your opinions and hope, i agree big time.

 

this is why some agents do not want to wait for that last yr.

 

That's a great point LDF. It's a gamble for both the team and played. Can you imagine how crazed cub fans would be right now if Samardzija had accepted that 5/90 offer, with the way he has pitched? Or, same for SOX fans if the Sox had signed him to an extension. Sox fans would be calling Samardzija, Danks 2.0 or Danks part deux.

This I can agree with. However, even if he could only get something like 4/50, that to me would be worth more than a QO. Of course, he's been expecting a big payday, so who knows what's going through his mind.

 

I see what you're saying. There has to be a part of him that's kicking himself in his ass for his determination of going to FA. He really hurt his value this season big time. It's going to be very interesting to see what Samardzija does once players are able to declare FA.

Montas is the most obvious trade candidate in the system. His loud tools make him a sexy prospect, and it's dubious if he'll be able to continue starting down the road. But, right now you can sell him as being a starter with a big fastball.

Agreed. Colorado needs pitching bady. I would try and swap Montas for MiLB 3B Ryan McMahon. According to MLB's rankings, they are pretty close with Montas ranked #60 and McMahon #56. Not like McMahon will be playing 3B with Arenado cemented in that position.

Edited August 22, 2015 by BlackSox13

[maggsmaggs]

I agree that the Sox will need to make a move for a legit hitter, but right now, we have six weeks or so left in the season and our young players need to play every day.

 

Saladino needs to play 3B everyday. Sanchez needs to play SS/2B every day. Micah Johnson needs to be promoted and play 2B/DH almost every day. Trayce Thompson needs to play one of the outfield positions or DH nearly every day.

 

These are our four youngsters who could contribute next year in starting roles. If you don't let them play the next six weeks, you entertain the off season with more questions because you don't know how they will handle starting. Give them these six weeks, and you just answering the questions.

 

I am fairly certain both Saladino and Thompson will be bench players, but you'll only know for sure if you let them play.

Edited August 22, 2015 by maggsmaggs

[ChiSox59]

Agreed. Colorado needs pitching bady. I would try and swap Montas for MiLB 3B Ryan McMahon. According to MLB's rankings, they are pretty close with Montas ranked #60 and McMahon #56. Not like McMahon will be playing 3B with Arenado cemented in that position.

 

I like it. I hope the Sox explore lots of minors for minors swaps this winter. McMahon-Montas would be a good start. Outside of moving Fulmer, the Sox need to cash in on some of their pitching prospects. We know we can develop pitchers, use it as an advantage and go get some bats.

[Chicago White Sox]

Montas has had a lot of 5 inning starts, but the Sox have been very conservative with his pitch counts. If you go through his game logs, you'll see he's frequently being cut off around 90 pitches. With a little more development and another 15 to 20 pitches, going 6 innings a start shouldn't be a problem. All this reliever talk is way too premature, especially with the way he's been pitching since June.

 

That being said, he's definitely the pitching prospect I'm trying to use in a package for a position player this offseason. With Erik Johnson ready for a shot again and Fulmer potentially a mid-season call-up next year, Montas provides more value to us as a trade chip.

[Chicago White Sox]

I agree that the Sox will need to make a move for a legit hitter, but right now, we have six weeks or so left in the season and our young players need to play every day.

 

Saladino needs to play 3B everyday. Sanchez needs to play SS/2B every day. Micah Johnson needs to be promoted and play 2B/DH almost every day. Trayce Thompson needs to play one of the outfield positions or DH nearly every day.

 

These are our four youngsters who could contribute next year in starting roles. If you don't let them play the next six weeks, you entertain the off season with more questions because you don't know how they will handle starting. Give them these six weeks, and you just answering the questions.

 

I am fairly certain both Saladino and Thompson will be bench players, but you'll only know for sure if you let them play.

Add Erik Johnson to the list. Assuming we lose Shark, we're most likely counting on Johnson to fill the #4 spot next year. It would be nice to give him an extended look in a lost season and be a bit more confident in counting on him for 2016.

[GreenSox]

Still think Q will be traded this winter.

I would certainly consider it, but I don't think that they will.

 

If Montas is reliever only, trade him before the rest of baseball grades him that way.

[BlackSox13]

I like it. I hope the Sox explore lots of minors for minors swaps this winter. McMahon-Montas would be a good start. Outside of moving Fulmer, the Sox need to cash in on some of their pitching prospects. We know we can develop pitchers, use it as an advantage and go get some bats.

Agreed. With Fulmer in the mix and the Sox in need of hitting, now is the time to trade Montas while the gettin' is good. I wouldn't stop there either. Since it looks like Sanchez is the 2B for the foreseeable future, I would look into trading Micah for one of C/3B/SS/OF prospect.

[BlackSox13]

Montas has had a lot of 5 inning starts, but the Sox have been very conservative with his pitch counts. If you go through his game logs, you'll see he's frequently being cut off around 90 pitches. With a little more development and another 15 to 20 pitches, going 6 innings a start shouldn't be a problem. All this reliever talk is way too premature, especially with the way he's been pitching since June.

 

That being said, he's definitely the pitching prospect I'm trying to use in a package for a position player this offseason. With Erik Johnson ready for a shot again and Fulmer potentially a mid-season call-up next year, Montas provides more value to us as a trade chip.

All good points made in your post. I have noticed this as well with Montas' pitch counts. The Sox are obviously slowly building Montas up while preserving that arm of his. I really like the approach the Sox take with their pitching and it works well.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Montas has had a lot of 5 inning starts, but the Sox have been very conservative with his pitch counts. If you go through his game logs, you'll see he's frequently being cut off around 90 pitches. With a little more development and another 15 to 20 pitches, going 6 innings a start shouldn't be a problem. All this reliever talk is way too premature, especially with the way he's been pitching since June.

 

That being said, he's definitely the pitching prospect I'm trying to use in a package for a position player this offseason. With Erik Johnson ready for a shot again and Fulmer potentially a mid-season call-up next year, Montas provides more value to us as a trade chip.

 

Montas threw 6 scoreless innings yesterday with 6 K's , just 2 hits , 3BB ,99 pitches.

[Lip Man 1]

I agree that the Sox will need to make a move for a legit hitter, but right now, we have six weeks or so left in the season and our young players need to play every day.

 

Saladino needs to play 3B everyday. Sanchez needs to play SS/2B every day. Micah Johnson needs to be promoted and play 2B/DH almost every day. Trayce Thompson needs to play one of the outfield positions or DH nearly every day.

 

These are our four youngsters who could contribute next year in starting roles. If you don't let them play the next six weeks, you entertain the off season with more questions because you don't know how they will handle starting. Give them these six weeks, and you just answering the questions.

 

I am fairly certain both Saladino and Thompson will be bench players, but you'll only know for sure if you let them play.

 

Haven't heard if Johnson is off the DL yet. With consecutive seasons where he's had leg issues, to me, his "star" is falling. Can't count on a guy who can't stay healthy can you?

 

Mark

Edited August 22, 2015 by Lip Man 1

[BlackSox13]

Haven't heard if Johnson is off the DL yet. With consecutive seasons where he's had leg issues, to me, his "star" is falling. Can't count on a guy who can't stay healthy can you?

 

Mark

I could be wrong but I thought I noticed Micah's name on the AZL roster last night. Gonna go have a look at last night's games again.

 

Edit: Yep, Micah lead off for the AZL Sox last night and went 1-3 with a 2B. He was pulled after three at bats so not sure what to make of that.

Edited August 22, 2015 by BlackSox13

[maggsmaggs]

Haven't heard if Johnson is off the DL yet. With consecutive seasons where he's had leg issues, to me, his "star" is falling. Can't count on a guy who can't stay healthy can you?

 

Mark

But when he is healthy, he has proven he can be a dynamic offensive player. That is why in theory you have good reserves who can cover for him. At some point, you need solid players on cheap contracts. We've been burned pretty much every time we try and sign a veteran free agent.

 

Although he struggled somewhat in his major league debut offensively (defensively he was bad), his .631 OPS is better than Alexei's .617 for 2015. He definitely did not look overmatched at the plate, just looked like he needed experience. Might as well just DH him since LaRoche is OPSing .642.

Edited August 22, 2015 by maggsmaggs