Bill Maher: God/Organized Religion, yes or no

[ron883]

16-4 vote so far! Wow, society is changing. Keep voting please.

There has to be a reason we are living, breathing, thinking beings. If there is no God and afterlife then why aren't we all selfish bastards every minute of our lives? The minute we die we're toast, never to be cognizant of anything again? Why don't we just run amok on earth if this is all arbitrary?

 

I've seen this argument before, and it is complete crap. If god is the only thing stopping you from becoming a completely selfish being, you need help Greg. Did religion stop numerous civilizations from conquering and enslaving other cultures? Did it stop our forefathers from whiping out the natives?

God never promised us an easy life. He promised to be with us during the trials if we believe. I actually have proof there is a God but I will not share the story. Too personal.

Can you honestly say that to somebody who has been tortured, enslaved, or raped their whole life? Sounds pretty selfish to me tbh

 

[greg775]

I've seen this argument before, and it is complete crap. If god is the only thing stopping you from becoming a completely selfish being, you need help Greg. Did religion stop numerous civilizations from conquering and enslaving other cultures? Did it stop our forefathers from whiping out the natives?

 

Can you honestly say that to somebody who has been tortured, enslaved, or raped their whole life? Sounds pretty selfish to me tbh

Is that why you don't believe? Because of the horrors of life?

[RockRaines]

So let me get this straight, you live a faithful and selfless life so that when you die you can be rewarded? Isn't that also selfish?

[Y2HH]

So let me get this straight, you live a faithful and selfless life so that when you die you can be rewarded? Isn't that also selfish?

 

I've found that most of the time, the most religious amongst us are also the most intolerant. More often than not, they pick and choose the pieces of their religion they happen to agree with and completely ignore the rest of the rules all the while calling themselves devoted.

 

"If 'God' is your moral compass, you don't have one." -Y2HH

[CrimsonWeltall]

There has to be a reason we are living, breathing, thinking beings. If there is no God and afterlife then why aren't we all selfish bastards every minute of our lives? The minute we die we're toast, never to be cognizant of anything again? Why don't we just run amok on earth if this is all arbitrary?

 

There doesn't have to be a reason. You just want there to be.

 

We're not selfish bastards because we have internal moral intuitions, experience empathy for our fellow man, wish to live in healthy/stable/safe societies, and want to engage in happy, productive relationships rather than, you know, be hated and thrown in jail.

 

That's cool. But why is it a fairy tale? Why has America become so skeptical about matters such as these?

 

Because I believe it to be made up. Is there a reason not to be skeptical? Aren't you skeptical about extraordinary claims in every other facet of your life?

[Iwritecode]

That's cool. But why is it a fairy tale? Why has America become so skeptical about matters such as these?

 

I've read estimates of around 4,200 different religions around the world. All of them say they are the right one and the others are false.

 

You have no more or less proof that the one you believe in is true than any of the others do.

[shysocks]

The ancient Greeks had a collection of gods who were responsible for everything in the world they didn't have the capacity to understand. As time went on and humanity realized that, for example, lightning was electrical energy and not a weapon hurled by Zeus, we categorized their belief system as a mythology.

 

I think you understand what I'm getting at.

[cabiness42]

I was raised in a Protestant church but attended a Catholic university. I took a couple pretty in depth theology courses as part of my requirements.

 

Between the ages of 19 and 25, I spent a lot of time wavering between full belief in Christianity, agnosticism, and general belief in God without believing any any specific religion.

 

I finally made my way back to Christianity, but with the caveat that I don't fully subscribe to any particular Catholic or Protestant organizations belief system.

 

I see too many inconsistencies and hypocrisies in any given church to claim to be a part of that church.

 

I believe that the accounts of the bible from the time of Moses through the time of Jesus are more or less accurate.

 

I do believe that some of the more conservative and controversial rules for living set out in the bible (no sex outside of marriage, no divorce, no homosexuality) are the way God wants us to live, but I also believe that those things should only be preached to church members in closed settings. I don't believe Christians should be ranting about these things in public or that it is there place to attempt to exert political influence on these issues. I don't believe those are effective ways to reach people, which is what I believe that God ultimately wants us to do.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I was raised in a Protestant church but attended a Catholic university. I took a couple pretty in depth theology courses as part of my requirements.

 

Between the ages of 19 and 25, I spent a lot of time wavering between full belief in Christianity, agnosticism, and general belief in God without believing any any specific religion.

 

I finally made my way back to Christianity, but with the caveat that I don't fully subscribe to any particular Catholic or Protestant organizations belief system.

 

I see too many inconsistencies and hypocrisies in any given church to claim to be a part of that church.

 

I believe that the accounts of the bible from the time of Moses through the time of Jesus are more or less accurate.

 

I do believe that some of the more conservative and controversial rules for living set out in the bible (no sex outside of marriage, no divorce, no homosexuality) are the way God wants us to live, but I also believe that those things should only be preached to church members in closed settings. I don't believe Christians should be ranting about these things in public or that it is there place to attempt to exert political influence on these issues. I don't believe those are effective ways to reach people, which is what I believe that God ultimately wants us to do.

 

So God doesn't want gay people to get married? Interesting.

 

[CrimsonWeltall]

So God doesn't want gay people to get married? Interesting.

 

If you're a Bible believer, that would be the obvious conclusion. The Hebrew god views consensual gay sex as being worse than some forms of rape.

[Kyyle23]

It just seems so silly that an all emcompassing god would worry himself about two gay people getting married

 

"Boom. Universe created, earth created, man created. You and you are allowed to get married. You and you, no. thats gross. Write that down. IM OUT EVERYONE! SEE YOU ON THE FLIPSIDE!"

 

*puff of smoke*

[cabiness42]

So God doesn't want gay people to get married? Interesting.

 

My interpretation is that God does not approve of sex between people of the same sex, regardless of whether or not they are married. The sex act is the sin, not the marriage license.

[cabiness42]

It just seems so silly that an all emcompassing god would worry himself about two gay people getting married

 

"Boom. Universe created, earth created, man created. You and you are allowed to get married. You and you, no. thats gross. Write that down. IM OUT EVERYONE! SEE YOU ON THE FLIPSIDE!"

 

*puff of smoke*

 

Regardless of your moral beliefs, you can't deny that there is a very clear biological difference between heterosexual sex and homosexual sex.

[CrimsonWeltall]

I believe that the accounts of the bible from the time of Moses through the time of Jesus are more or less accurate.

 

Have to ask...why?

[Kyyle23]

Regardless of your moral beliefs, you can't deny that there is a very clear biological difference between heterosexual sex and homosexual sex.

 

Of course there is, there is a biological difference in many organisms and how they reproduce or assert dominance or any number of different things. But God has a problem with this one thing, and he happened to tell some guy writing a book of his word thousands of years ago.

 

 

For the record, I believe in the possibility of a god. I do not believe that this God would trouble itself with gay marraige.

[cabiness42]

Have to ask...why?

 

It has come from quite a bit of study of both theology and history. It mostly boils down to (1) the time of Moses is when the bible transitioned from a recording of stories that had been handed down over generations to an eyewitness or second hand account of events shortly after they occurred and (2) archaeological evidence and extra-biblical historical documents confirming several details of stories contained in that time frame.

[cabiness42]

Of course there is, there is a biological difference in many organisms and how they reproduce or assert dominance or any number of different things. But God has a problem with this one thing, and he happened to tell some guy writing a book of his word thousands of years ago.

 

 

For the record, I believe in the possibility of a god. I do not believe that this God would trouble itself with gay marraige.

 

God has a problem with lots of things, including a lot of things that are done by the large number of Christians yelling and screaming about this one thing.

[StrangeSox]

I've read this book on biblical archaeology a couple of times, definitely recommend it if you're interested in that sort of stuff.

[Kyyle23]

God has a problem with lots of things, including a lot of things that are done by the large number of Christians yelling and screaming about this one thing.

 

Well, fortunately for me my God accepts us for who we are.

[cabiness42]

I've read this book on biblical archaeology a couple of times, definitely recommend it if you're interested in that sort of stuff.

 

I need to do some digging, but I think I have a HS friend whose PhD thesis basically tore that book apart.

[CrimsonWeltall]

It has come from quite a bit of study of both theology and history. It mostly boils down to (1) the time of Moses is when the bible transitioned from a recording of stories that had been handed down over generations to an eyewitness or second hand account of events shortly after they occurred and (2) archaeological evidence and extra-biblical historical documents confirming several details of stories contained in that time frame.

 

1) I'm not sure how that has been established. Most scholarship places the writings of much of the OT in the 7th-5th centuries BC, far too late to be first or secondhand accounts of the patriarchs, Exodus, conquest, judges, and united kingdom.

2) How do you reconcile all the archaeological and extra-Biblical evidence which is problematic for these stories? For example, the problems with The Exodus, the (non)invasion of Canaan, and the importance of Judah versus Israel?

 

Also, even if the accounts were written around the time of the supposed events, and they contain some accurate information about geography/political leaders of the time, why would that cause you to think the extraordinary details of the stories are true? As an example, stories about Joseph Smith were undeniably contemporary to his lifetime and have many references to easily confirmed places and people, yet I doubt you believe he met an angel or transcribed tablets using seer stones.

Edited August 26, 2015 by CrimsonWeltall

[cabiness42]

1) I'm not sure how that has been established. Most scholarship places the writings of much of the OT in the 7th-5th centuries BC, far too late to be first or secondhand accounts of the patriarchs, Exodus, conquest, judges, and united kingdom.

2) How do you reconcile all the archaeological and extra-Biblical evidence which is problematic for these stories? For example, the problems with The Exodus, the (non)invasion of Canaan, and the importance of Judah versus Israel?

 

That's why I quantified with the term "more or less". I think the bible has errors and exaggerations just like any other historical account might.

[CrimsonWeltall]

That's why I quantified with the term "more or less". I think the bible has errors and exaggerations just like any other historical account might.

 

Fair enough. I also edited my previous post with one additional question. You may have missed it because you replied before the edit went through.

[cabiness42]

Fair enough. I also edited my previous post with one additional question. You may have missed it because you replied before the edit went through.

 

I've already gone much farther into this debate than I should have. I'm not convincing anybody to change their beliefs, nor is anybody convincing me to change mine.

[CrimsonWeltall]

I've already gone much farther into this debate than I should have. I'm not convincing anybody to change their beliefs, nor is anybody convincing me to change mine.

 

No problemo.