The conundrum in the infield

[Jose Abreu]

Top 5 player? I mean, what in the world are you basing that on? If you think he can develop into a top 5 player, I could see an argument be made, but he's not there yet.

Name 5 players better than him. I mean, he brings elite defense and elite offense. Over Arenado, I'd take Goldschmidt, Trout... that's really it. Maybe Harper too.

[fathom]

Name 5 players better than him. I mean, he brings elite defense and elite offense. Over Arenado, I'd take Goldschmidt, Trout... that's really it. Maybe Harper too.

 

just for argument's sake, he's 21st in fWAR. And you wouldn't take Harper over him? You put Harper in Colorado, and he hits 60 a year.

[maggsmaggs]

I think you're undervaluing Arenado. IMO he's a top five player in baseball on a very good contract.

Arenado WAR: 2.5 in 2013, 2.9 in 2014 and 3.8 so far in 2015.

Quintana WAR: 3.5 in 2013, 5.1 in 2014 and 3.5 so far in 2015.

 

Quintana is two years older. And you think we should trade Quintana + three of our top six prospects for him?

 

To me, Q for Arenado straight up would be a fair trade.

[Jose Abreu]

Arenado WAR: 2.5 in 2013, 2.9 in 2014 and 3.8 so far in 2015.

Quintana WAR: 3.5 in 2013, 5.1 in 2014 and 3.5 so far in 2015.

 

Quintana is two years older. And you think we should trade Quintana + three of our top six prospects for him?

 

To me, Q for Arenado straight up would be a fair trade.

To be fair, 2013 was Arenado's age 22 season. He is just now blossoming offensively. I do understand Quintana's value, but I assume the asking price on Arenado will be very high.

[maggsmaggs]

To be fair, 2013 was Arenado's age 22 season. He is just now blossoming offensively. I do understand Quintana's value, but I assume the asking price on Arenado will be very high.

 

Quintana is a terrific #2 pitcher, signed for five more years at a total of $40 million. His value is sky high, too.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Because I have absolutely no idea what it was last year so why should I assume it's a 1 time thing?

 

I 100% agree with the solution though. Give him a shot in 2016 and see what he does. It's literally the only way we'll know.

We've been through this before, Johnson was eventually shut down last year with an injury. And my guess he also had some mechanical issues contributing to the velocity loss. Regardless, before and after the 2014 season he's never had this type of problem. While there is a non-zero chance it happens again, there is no reason to believe it will until it actually does.

[Quin]

To be fair, 2013 was Arenado's age 22 season. He is just now blossoming offensively. I do understand Quintana's value, but I assume the asking price on Arenado will be very high.

 

And the asking price for Q is very high.

[Jose Abreu]

Quintana is a terrific #2 pitcher, signed for five more years at a total of $40 million. His value is sky high, too.

 

 

And the asking price for Q is very high.

I'm aware. What I've grown accustomed to doing when creating trade proposals is to try and evaluate the trade from the other team's (meaning not the White Sox) point of view in an effort to avoid being biased. I suppose, in this case, I was too unbiased.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Jose Abreu

[Vance Law]

To be fair, 2013 was Arenado's age 22 season. He is just now blossoming offensively. I do understand Quintana's value, but I assume the asking price on Arenado will be very high.

 

 

.256/.291/.436 for a .728 OPS in his career away from Coors Field. While, sure, most hitters fare worse away from home, Coors is THE true outlier stadium. He'll be a good player no matter where he is, but it's hard to get a handle on what to expect from Rockies players after they're traded.

[Balta1701]

I'm aware. What I've grown accustomed to doing when creating trade proposals is to try and evaluate the trade from the other team's (meaning not the White Sox) point of view in an effort to avoid being biased. I suppose, in this case, I was too unbiased.

I agree, I wouldn't give up that kind of package for Arenado, but with the White Sox having so many "Decent but not great" infielders and the Rockies always needing pitching there might be a deal that could be done there. It does need both teams to do something they don't want to do - the White Sox giving up Q and the Rockies giving up their young stud, but both teams do have needs that could match up here.

 

Q + Saladino? = Arenado might be the basics of something that makes sense to me. The Rockies give up their stud 3b but get back a stud starter, and the Rockies get a guy who can defensively handle 3b or SS and fill one of the infield spots they gave up? I'm note 100% sure I'd do that if I were the Rockies GM but I'd sure sit down and do the numbers on it.

[Jose Abreu]

.256/.291/.436 for a .728 OPS in his career away from Coors Field. While, sure, most hitters fare worse away from home, Coors is THE true outlier stadium. He'll be a good player no matter where he is, but it's hard to get a handle on what to expect from Rockies players after they're traded.

That is true, but FWIW, 18 of his 30 home runs this year are away from Coors Field. He has 8 more AB's at home, but 6 fewer home runs, which is really the opposite of what is should be.

[Vance Law]

That is true, but FWIW, 18 of his 30 home runs this year are away from Coors Field. He has 8 more AB's at home, but 6 fewer home runs, which is really the opposite of what is should be.

 

The fact that the power is still there away from Coors for him is good. But Coors inflates all types of hitting. In order to compensate for the thin air and the ease with which home runs are hit, they've made Coors is the largest field in baseball. It has the largest area for outfielders to cover, hence more room for the ball to fall in for a hit. So it inflates singles, doubles, triples, and home runs.

[Quin]

I agree, I wouldn't give up that kind of package for Arenado, but with the White Sox having so many "Decent but not great" infielders and the Rockies always needing pitching there might be a deal that could be done there. It does need both teams to do something they don't want to do - the White Sox giving up Q and the Rockies giving up their young stud, but both teams do have needs that could match up here.

 

Q + Saladino? = Arenado might be the basics of something that makes sense to me. The Rockies give up their stud 3b but get back a stud starter, and the Rockies get a guy who can defensively handle 3b or SS and fill one of the infield spots they gave up? I'm note 100% sure I'd do that if I were the Rockies GM but I'd sure sit down and do the numbers on it.

 

I think Q+Saladino would be a fair deal for both sides.

 

It'd suck to see Q go, but Arenado is worth it.

[fathom]

Rockies will build around Arenado, not trade him. They got rid of Tulo and will get rid of CarGo. It does them no good to get rid of their only other superstar just to bring in a pitcher.

[chitownsportsfan]

Personally I don't think Sanchez has the arm for SS I'd rather try Salidino there. Sanchez is the long term 2B IMO. His floor is bottom 1/3 starter his ceiling is solid starter. I'm done with Ramirez I wish they would just DFA him and see if anyone wants him. They are too loyal and don't run it enough like a biz at times IMO.

[BlackSox13]

With the volume of pitchers the White Sox have in the organization yes, I can definitely see them trading away more pitching to fill some of these roles...but here's the thing about EJ. Would you trade for him at full price based on this season? Would you trade for him and give up the value that you'd give up for a #2/#3 starter under team control for 5 years for him?

 

I sure wouldn't. He's done good in AAA this year but his 2014 implosion still absolutely has to impact his trade value. If I'm trading for EJ, I'm trading for him because I think there's a good chance I'll get him at a bargain price. I'll give up the value of a back rotation starter for him, but I'm not giving you a king's ransom for him since I don't know that he'll succeed at the big league level given his struggles last year.

 

If we want to turn EJ into a tradeable asset where you can get the full value for him, IMO, you've got to pitch him for a year at the big league level in 2016 and show that he's a big league pitcher.

 

I wouldn't trade for him unless I knew he had established he was a big league pitcher. Or at least I wouldn't give up that much. He's a wild card at best in a trade, to me at least.

Again, you make some very good points that I agree with. I had not thought much on the possibility of trading EJ to be honest because I kind of assume Samardzija is a gonner and EJ will replace him so when I threw EJ's name out there, it literally was "throwing" his name out there without considerating EJ' age, past performances and value.

 

I would rather keep EJ and give him starts in September to try and get a better idea if he could take Samardzija's spot in the rotation next year. Imo, Samardzija is a gonner but I admit that I despised the very idea of trading for him in the first place so I am juuuuust a bit biased. That said, if the Sox for some stupid dumbs*** crazy reason decide to keep Samardzija, I would see about trying to package EJ with Micah for a 3B and go with the idea of Saladino at SS.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I really don't want to trade Micah as much as most here. I'd much rather move him to LF and trade Avi if he really is a lost cause at 2B (although, i don't think he is) . Eaton and Micah at the top of the order should be a lethal combo for years to come. Avi + a young pitcher like Beck should be able to net us a useful piece that fits I assume.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I really don't want to trade Micah as much as most here. I'd much rather move him to LF and trade Avi if he really is a lost cause at 2B (although, i don't think he is) . Eaton and Micah at the top of the order should be a lethal combo for years to come. Avi + a young pitcher like Beck should be able to net us a useful piece that fits I assume.

There is zero reason to think Micah is a lost cause at 2b and if Micah is a lost cause at 2b there's every reason to think his arm will make him a bigger failure in the OF given that he's already had a major surgery on a fairly weak throwing arm.

 

If Micah Johnson can't be a 2b then it's extremely unlikely that Micah Johnson can be a big league regular.

[TheFutureIsNear]

There is zero reason to think Micah is a lost cause at 2b and if Micah is a lost cause at 2b there's every reason to think his arm will make him a bigger failure in the OF given that he's already had a major surgery on a fairly weak throwing arm.

 

If Micah Johnson can't be a 2b then it's extremely unlikely that Micah Johnson can be a big league regular.

 

Tell that to the likes of Juan Pierre , Johnny Damon, Ben Revere, ect...if Micah can run and catch in the outfield and hit .280+ /.330+ he'd be fine. Avi is pretty bad himself in RF anyway so it's not like it would worsen the overall team D. I just don't see how we shouldn't be trying to get Anderson, Micah, and Sanchez all in the lineup at the same time in the very near future. Those 3 + Eaton all hitting up to their potential with their athleticism and speed would be tough to deal with. We'd need to make up for some power at 3B and DH, but we should be tying to do that anyway.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Tell that to the likes of Juan Pierre , Johnny Damon, Ben Revere, ect...if Micah can run and catch in the outfield and hit .280+ /.330+ he'd be fine. Avi is pretty bad himself in RF anyway so it's not like it would worsen the overall team D. I just don't see how we shouldn't be trying to get Anderson, Micah, and Sanchez all in the lineup at the same time in the very near future. Those 3 + Eaton all hitting up to their potential with their athleticism and speed would be tough to deal with. We'd need to make up for some power at 3B and DH, but we should be tying to do that anyway.

Are you saying Micah should be in RF?

[TheFutureIsNear]

Are you saying Micah should be in RF?

 

LF and only as a last resort

[Knackattack]

Avi needs to go to either DH or LF.. I think his DRS this year is like -10 and his uzr is around -5 as well. Horrible defender in right and his bat doesn't play anywhere near well enough to justify RF or his crap defense. I don't think you're ever going to see Micah and Avi in the same line-up if Sanchez remains at 2b because either Avi or Melky needs to be our DH next season.

[beautox]

I don't think the sox move on Arenado for a number of reasons; 1 he is a super 2 so he will get 4 trips through arbitration, 2 his agent is scott boras and three he has a bit more value than Quintana but significantly less than Sale, and it would be a bad idea to move what we do have in our farm system to supplement the value we would need to give up in order to get him. This is what i would like to see this offseason.

 

Leave Sanchez at 2B he looks like he could be a 2.5/3 win player, and a complete one at that minus some base running gaffs, that could possibly be cleared up. No one thought Duffy or Panik of the Giants were anything more than 40-45 future value players and that has obviously gone by the way side. The sox were right for sticking by him and are being paid off in the second half to a line of .317/.354/.488 now his BABIP isn't going to stay at .375 but if it normalizes to say .340/.350ish you're looking at a well above average player prolly in the wRC+ range of 110-115.

 

The sox glaring needs this offseason to me are as follows: 3B, C, RF

 

I don't think its out of the realm of possibility to move Quintana to the rays for Evan Longoria. He'll be 30 years old starting next season and he is getting progressively more expensive. I think the sox could possibly buy low on Matt Moore as well since he is signed to a potential long term deal as well. Something like Longoria and Moore for Quintana and a prospect like Michalczewski. The rays would clear the majority of their contracts in this deal, but would also have a great young top of the rotation arm to pair with Archer, and they've got Schaffer to take over 3B.

 

If that happened, buy out alexei I'm sure Saladino could reproduce the putrid year he has been having and offer upside and financial relief, and If saladino shows over the course of 300 at bats next year that he is nothing more than a solid utility player well, Tim Anderson should be ready to take over.

 

Sign one of Heyward/Span/Jackson to play RF

 

Attempt to acquire a young catcher from one of the new york teams; either JR Murphy or Sanchez or Plawecki.

 

Re-sign Soto

 

Leave Melky to LF and LaRoche to DH and hope for a '12 like Dunn Resurgence.

 

DH - L - LaRoche

C - ? - ?

1B - R - Abreu

2B - S - Sanchez

SS - R - Saladino

3B - R - Longoria

LF - S - Cabrera

CF - L - Eaton

RF - L - Heyward/Span

 

SP - L - Sale

SP - L - Rodon

SP - L - Danks

SP - L - Moore

SP - R - Johnson / Montas

[Dam8610]

Why does everyone want to trade Quintana? It doesn't make sense unless you're getting a guy like Frazier our Arenado in return, and even then, Q should be pretty much the entire package. His value is insane, and a package that was suggested earlier in this thread for just Arenado (which included Montas, Micah Johnson, and Adams) should, in addition to someone like Arenado, net the team a young, proven 125+ wRC+ catcher with great defense.

 

If we're not getting something worth 5+ WAR and cost controlled for Q, then why not keep the trio of cost controlled lefties that are likely to produce 15-18 WAR at the top of the rotation for the next 4+ years? You get two decent starters behind that, and you have the potential for a 20-25 WAR rotation, which is a playoff rotation with even a decent bullpen and offense.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Dam8610

[LDF]

Why does everyone want to trade Quintana? It doesn't make sense unless you're getting a guy like Frazier our Arenado in return, and even then, Q should be pretty much the entire package. His value is insane, and a package that was suggested earlier in this thread for just Arenado (which included Montas, Micah Johnson, and Adams) should, in addition to someone like Arenado, net the team a young, proven 125+ wRC+ catcher with great defense.

 

If we're not getting something worth 5+ WAR and cost controlled for Q, then why not keep the trio of cost controlled lefties that are likely to produce 15-18 WAR at the top of the rotation for the next 4+ years? You get two decent starters behind that, and you have the potential for a 20-25 WAR rotation, which is a playoff rotation with even a decent bullpen and offense.

 

while it would be nice to keep Q, the sox needs, in addition of acquiring new players via trading off some of the other prospects. but 1 key player who can really bring in 2+ higher players in 1 fell swoop.

 

and that is Q.