SoxNet: The Legacy of Jerry Reinsdorf

[Lip Man 1]

Interesting discussion here so far. Well done.

 

Again just putting some points out there not advocating either way, devil's advocate more or less.

 

1. The reply to those who say winning once is better than numerous times getting in without doing so is, "well, you can't win the World Series if you don't make the postseason..."

 

Today the playoffs much like the NCAA basketball tournament is a crap shoot. Match-up's, health, the bounce of a ball or a call (or non call) decides games which in a short series or a one and done scenario can be the difference between winning and losing.

 

Jerry Koosman told me once that he thought it was harder to win in the playoffs then the regular season.

 

I asked why and he said because over the course of a 162 games the best team usually wins, that's not the case in the playoffs especially a short series.

 

2. When you look back at the ownership of JR and EE it's sad that the Sox have actually wasted more chances to make the playoffs than they actually got in.

 

Sox have made the post season under their stewardship in: 83, 93, 00, 05 and 08.

 

They wasted reasonable chances to get in in 84 (first place at the break, had won seven straight, collapsed in the second half), 91 (one back on August 11 then lost 15 of 17), 94 (1st place at the time play was halted via labor impasse driven in large part by JR), 96 (40-21 in June, finished with 85 wins, collapsed in the second half because of a bad bullpen and no 5th starter), 03 (had a two game lead with 18 games to go, finished three games behind Minnesota. Lost five straight to them in the final two weeks. Again the lack of a reliable 5th starter during the season cost them dearly), 06 (57 wins in the first half, finished with 90, collapsed in the second half), 10 (1st place on August 1st, by mid August were four back, finished six behind Twins) and 12 (had won five straight, had a three game lead with 15 games to go, went 4-11).

 

That's a sad legacy. *Note I don't count 04 in this because even though they were in first place at the break they had lost both Ordonez and Thomas for the season. No team could survive that.

 

Mark

Edited August 25, 2015 by Lip Man 1

[WBWSF]

I don't think JR cares what his legacy is. I read where he once said that he has had a very happy life. Owning part of the White Sox, Bulls and the United Center would make most people happy. Forbes magazine said JR is a billionaire. Not bad for somebody who grew up in a middle class family in Brooklyn. There has been good and bad about his White Sox ownership. THE GOOD: 1) He kept the White Sox in Chicago. Eddie Einhorn and some of the other investors wanted to move to Florida Granted JR got a sweetheart deal from the State of Illinois with the new stadium but believe me Einhorn wanted to move to Florida. JR didn't. 2) JR helped the White Sox become a very profitable franchise. With the different deals the White Sox have Forbes magazine has said the White Sox franchise is 14th in total revenue of the 30 MLB teams. Anybody who thinks the White Sox are not making money is definitely misreading the situation. THe BAD:1) 5 Playoff appearances in 35 years is nothing to write home about. 2) The Sportsvision fiasco. Having Sportsvision before the Chicagoland area was wired for cable was nuts. If the area had been wired for cable it probably would of succeeded. It wasn't and Sportsvision flopped. 3) The New Comiskey Park 2/ Cell. I'm convinced the new stadium has to be the biggest mistake in the history of the franchise. When JR was looking for a new stadium for the White Sox in the 1980's the City of Chicago wanted to build a baseball stadium in the South Loop at Roosevelt + Clark. JR turned down the offer and wanted the new stadium to be built in Addison on land he owned. When that didn't work out the City of Chicago South Loop stadium offer was off the table. The White Sox wound up at its present location. JR should of taking the initial offer by the City of Chicago with the South Loop stadium. Everybody would of been better off with a South Loop stadium. By everybody I mean the White Sox franchise. White Sox fans and the City of Chicago. Instead they're located in a area that is not popular. The entire perception of the White Sox franchise would of been better in the South Loop. It's bad enough the stadium was built where it was but they built a stadium where nobody wants to sit in the upper deck. I've read numerous times where the upper deck was JRs doing entirely. He wanted more suites which made the upper deck what it is today. Sometime, somewhere someday the White Sox will have a new owner. The new owner will inherit this bad stadium situation. I think the current lease runs through 2027. I'm expecting the next owner sometime around the year 2025 to start looking for a new stadium for the White Sox in a better location. Like I said earlier I don't think JR cares what his legacy is. From what I can see his legacy with the White Sox is not a good one.

[Lip Man 1]

WB:

 

You'll be interested to know that I've submitted a story on the history of SportsVision and its impact on the franchise to the folks at Sox Net. Hope you'll enjoy reading it.

 

Mark

[shipps]

nice..... really nice.

 

LOL All he said in bold was build your team to make the playoffs as much as possible.

 

Thats not nice.

[LDF]

LOL All he said in bold was build your team to make the playoffs as much as possible.

 

Thats not nice.

 

i thought it was understood from the previous post that i made, build the team and continue to building it. thru new money, new players who may be worth taking a look via fa, and see what the draft is producing. young player ready to crack the lineup.

 

also, do not let the team get stagnant and signing most of the players to long contracts. lets further look at the philly team when they finally had their run. they had alot of players with a burgeoning contracts to hold down the team to further move assets.

 

so in other words, continue to build the team to have a influx of new blood.

Edited August 25, 2015 by LDF

[LDF]

Interesting discussion here so far. Well done.

 

Again just putting some points out there not advocating either way, devil's advocate more or less.

 

1. The reply to those who say winning once is better than numerous times getting in without doing so is, "well, you can't win the World Series if you don't make the postseason..."

 

Today the playoffs much like the NCAA basketball tournament is a crap shoot. Match-up's, health, the bounce of a ball or a call (or non call) decides games which in a short series or a one and done scenario can be the difference between winning and losing.

 

Jerry Koosman told me once that he thought it was harder to win in the playoffs then the regular season.

 

I asked why and he said because over the course of a 162 games the best team usually wins, that's not the case in the playoffs especially a short series.

 

2. When you look back at the ownership of JR and EE it's sad that the Sox have actually wasted more chances to make the playoffs than they actually got in.

 

Sox have made the post season under their stewardship in: 83, 93, 00, 05 and 08.

 

They wasted reasonable chances to get in in 84 (first place at the break, had won seven straight, collapsed in the second half), 91 (one back on August 11 then lost 15 of 17), 94 (1st place at the time play was halted via labor impasse driven in large part by JR), 96 (40-21 in June, finished with 85 wins, collapsed in the second half because of a bad bullpen and no 5th starter), 03 (had a two game lead with 18 games to go, finished three games behind Minnesota. Lost five straight to them in the final two weeks. Again the lack of a reliable 5th starter during the season cost them dearly), 06 (57 wins in the first half, finished with 90, collapsed in the second half), 10 (1st place on August 1st, by mid August were four back, finished six behind Twins) and 12 (had won five straight, had a three game lead with 15 games to go, went 4-11).

 

That's a sad legacy. *Note I don't count 04 in this because even though they were in first place at the break they had lost both Ordonez and Thomas for the season. No team could survive that.

 

Mark

 

nice write up and with that, i am going to do the bold, and keep it a neutral as possible.

 

and the sox never made the necessary addition to ensure the success. even when they made the playoff. they stood pat when they should have brought in a player to help.

[LDF]

I don't think JR cares what his legacy is. I read where he once said that he has had a very happy life. Owning part of the White Sox, Bulls and the United Center would make most people happy. Forbes magazine said JR is a billionaire. Not bad for somebody who grew up in a middle class family in Brooklyn. There has been good and bad about his White Sox ownership. THE GOOD: 1) He kept the White Sox in Chicago. Eddie Einhorn and some of the other investors wanted to move to Florida Granted JR got a sweetheart deal from the State of Illinois with the new stadium but believe me Einhorn wanted to move to Florida. JR didn't. 2) JR helped the White Sox become a very profitable franchise. With the different deals the White Sox have Forbes magazine has said the White Sox franchise is 14th in total revenue of the 30 MLB teams. Anybody who thinks the White Sox are not making money is definitely misreading the situation. THe BAD:1) 5 Playoff appearances in 35 years is nothing to write home about. 2) The Sportsvision fiasco. Having Sportsvision before the Chicagoland area was wired for cable was nuts. If the area had been wired for cable it probably would of succeeded. It wasn't and Sportsvision flopped. 3) The New Comiskey Park 2/ Cell. I'm convinced the new stadium has to be the biggest mistake in the history of the franchise. When JR was looking for a new stadium for the White Sox in the 1980's the City of Chicago wanted to build a baseball stadium in the South Loop at Roosevelt + Clark. JR turned down the offer and wanted the new stadium to be built in Addison on land he owned. When that didn't work out the City of Chicago South Loop stadium offer was off the table. The White Sox wound up at its present location. JR should of taking the initial offer by the City of Chicago with the South Loop stadium. Everybody would of been better off with a South Loop stadium. By everybody I mean the White Sox franchise. White Sox fans and the City of Chicago. Instead they're located in a area that is not popular. The entire perception of the White Sox franchise would of been better in the South Loop. It's bad enough the stadium was built where it was but they built a stadium where nobody wants to sit in the upper deck. I've read numerous times where the upper deck was JRs doing entirely. He wanted more suites which made the upper deck what it is today. Sometime, somewhere someday the White Sox will have a new owner. The new owner will inherit this bad stadium situation. I think the current lease runs through 2027. I'm expecting the next owner sometime around the year 2025 to start looking for a new stadium for the White Sox in a better location. Like I said earlier I don't think JR cares what his legacy is. From what I can see his legacy with the White Sox is not a good one.

 

very good addition to the other articles. the long and short is the owners screwed up on bad management and executive decision making dooming this team to the state it is in and thru bad decision making on the personnel in the FO.

[Thad Bosley]

I'll take the win. I am always excited when the Sox make the playoffs, and disappointed when they bow out. There is nothing like winning playoff series though, especially the big one.

Agreed! Nothing beats the excitement of seeing your team succeed in postseason play. Too bad there have been ZERO such instances of "winning playoff series" in 34 of Reinsdorf's 35 years as owner, and ZERO in 54 of the last 55 years for the franchise. It's what makes answering the question of what Jerry Reinsdorf's so-called "legacy" will be as owner of the Sox a very easy one: he's been horrible.

[nickofypres]

Between Hawk's one year as GM, the strike, white flag, threatening to move the team, loyalty, firing Himes, sportsvision, etc. Just terrible.

[ewokpelts]

It would take a book to really delve into his background and legacy. A very complex individual to be sure. I thought these quotes from my White Sox library would be of some interest:

 

“Eddie and I never discussed how to talk to reporters. We’ve just been ourselves. I always though Jack Kennedy was the kind of person I looked up to in that regard. He always gave the media a fair shake and understood you guys have a job to do. Without responsible people willing to divulge some accurate information, it’s hard to do it right. It was a much better approach then Nixon, who figured the media was his enemy. Doing it Kennedy’s way just makes a lot more sense to me. After all, nobody can buy the kind of advertising Chicago teams get. What other line of work finds newspapers assigning people to follow you around and write about how the business is doing every day? At Balcor, we have to hire a public relations firm to get our names in the paper. When baseball teams get that for free, it makes sense to cooperate.” – Jerry Reinsdorf to Bob Logan. From the book ‘Miracle On 35th Street.’ Pg. 154. Published 1983.

 

“The idea that I must talk to the media in order to know what is going on with our fans or the public is ludicrous. I communicate with fans on an almost daily basis and often hear comments from people on the street and in the ballpark. We have committed a lot of resources to market research each year, whether it is telephone or internet polling, mall intercepts, focus groups or in-park surveys. We believe these surveys are the most impartial way to hear from our fans. I don't think a media interview gives me the same type of insight into what our fans think and feel. Believe me, our fans tell us. They care and they are passionate. I like that about sports. The fact is that I do speak publicly when there is an issue of importance to our fans and to the franchises. I owe that to our fans. But again, I don't really think people want to hear from me or go to the game to see me. I hope not.” – Jerry Reinsdorf quoted on the “official” White Sox web site, www.whitesox.com, August 16, 2004.

 

As with any other individual he's done some remarkable things, some things that make you scratch your head and I'm sure he's done some things he wishes he could do over. (aka as he's publicly admitted regarding the firing of Tony LaRussa and the hiring of Hawk Harrelson as G.M.

 

Mark

the sports world, as well as sports media, changed IMMENSELY over the 21 years between quotes. Let's not forget that. And also, in that time, he was crucified for comments he made by fans and the media.

 

Oh, and you don't have to put quotations marks when talking about the official site of the sox. It's operated by the team and owned by the league. I figure a "journalist" like yourself would understand the meaning of "official"

 

[ewokpelts]

Between Hawk's one year as GM, the strike, white flag, threatening to move the team, loyalty, firing Himes, sportsvision, etc. Just terrible.

Marge schott and George Steinbrenner were both banned from the game.

[LDF]

the sports world, as well as sports media, changed IMMENSELY over the 21 years between quotes. Let's not forget that. And also, in that time, he was crucified for comments he made by fans and the media.

 

Oh, and you don't have to put quotations marks when talking about the official site of the sox. It's operated by the team and owned by the league. I figure a "journalist" like yourself would understand the meaning of "official"

 

oooOOO snarky.....

[Lip Man 1]

Oh, and you don't have to put quotations marks when talking about the official site of the sox. It's operated by the team and owned by the league. I figure a "journalist" like yourself would understand the meaning of "official"

 

My apologies for the mistake and for offending you.

 

It won't happen again.

 

Mark

[LDF]

My apologies for the mistake and for offending you.

It won't happen again.

 

Mark

 

why???? you know how many times i offend people here.... on a daily basis.

[Thad Bosley]

Marge schott and George Steinbrenner were both banned from the game.

And so what? What does that have to do with the poster's assessment of Reinsdorf's legacy as "terrible"? You get to that conclusion based on evaluating the results of his tenure, not on how he stacks up against other owners who had their own set of problems.

[Lip Man 1]

And so what? What does that have to do with the poster's assessment of Reinsdorf's legacy as "terrible"? You get to that conclusion based on evaluating the results of his tenure, not on how he stacks up against other owners who had their own set of problems.

 

Steinbrenner was forgiven for his "sins" because of the fact that the Yankees never forgot under him that the only thing that mattered was winning. Everything else took care of itself so long as that took place.

 

Mark

[southsider2k5]

winning>racist.