ChiSoxFanMike Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I know there have been many amazing pitchers that the Sox have had over the years like Walsh, Lyons, Buehrle, Wood, Danks, etc, but do you guys think that Sale is the best pitcher to ever play for the Sox? His talent has to be at or near the top of the list, but I'm not sure if he's pitched long enough to be mentioned with the greats. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Talent-wise yes. When his career is over, this probably will be an easy yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 He's the most talented pitcher the Sox have had, but he isn't the most accomplished yet. He will be if he makes his starts the next four years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Between him and Walsh. Shame we don't have footage to compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Yeah, Walsh is really the only guy that comes close. Maybe Pierce. Most of our pitchers have been so overrated by us Sox fans... LaMarr Hoyt, Jack McDowell, Mark Buehrle, etc. are so much worse than SoxTalk posters seem to think. Don't get me wrong, they're good, but their stats really aren't great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 He's already being comped to Randy Johnson regularly. Ya, I'd say he will be the best the Sox have had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Dunt @ Aug 26, 2015 -> 07:30 PM) He's already being comped to Randy Johnson regularly. Ya, I'd say he will be the best the Sox have had. Not only that, but his career numbers at this point are much better than Randy Johnson's were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Walsh "comes close." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 12:59 AM) Yeah, Walsh is really the only guy that comes close. Maybe Pierce. Most of our pitchers have been so overrated by us Sox fans... LaMarr Hoyt, Jack McDowell, Mark Buehrle, etc. are so much worse than SoxTalk posters seem to think. Don't get me wrong, they're good, but their stats really aren't great. Hoyt would have been an icon in Chicago history if not for Dybber. Hoyt was 24-10 that 1983 year with a 3.66 ERA. If Dybber doesn't mess up the series is 2-2 and Sox EASILY win the Sunday game to take that series behind Hoyt. Then they continue steaming to a WS title. They won 99 games that year. I'm surprised that what ultimately happened that season is not discussed as one of the biggest chokes ever by a team. Sale is amazing, though. If he stays healthy he'll be best Sox starter ever. He really ought to ask experts about his delivery. Longevity is all that may escape Mr. Sale. he is superb. Edited August 27, 2015 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 26, 2015 -> 09:12 PM) Hoyt would have been an icon in Chicago history if not for Dybber. Hoyt was 24-10 that 1983 year with a 3.66 ERA. If Dybber doesn't mess up the series is 2-2 and Sox EASILY win the Sunday game to take that series behind Hoyt. Then they continue steaming to a WS title. They won 99 games that year. I'm surprised that what ultimately happened that season is not discussed as one of the biggest chokes ever by a team. Sale is amazing, though. If he stays healthy he'll be best Sox starter ever. He really ought to ask experts about his delivery. Longevity is all that may escape Mr. Sale. he is superb. Well that and cocaine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 07:23 AM) Well that and cocaine. Yea Hoyt took "winning ugly" a bit too literally . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 26, 2015 -> 09:12 PM) Hoyt would have been an icon in Chicago history if not for Dybber. Hoyt was 24-10 that 1983 year with a 3.66 ERA. If Dybber doesn't mess up the series is 2-2 and Sox EASILY win the Sunday game to take that series behind Hoyt. Then they continue steaming to a WS title. They won 99 games that year. I'm surprised that what ultimately happened that season is not discussed as one of the biggest chokes ever by a team. Sale is amazing, though. If he stays healthy he'll be best Sox starter ever. He really ought to ask experts about his delivery. Longevity is all that may escape Mr. Sale. he is superb. Check my post in the most hated thread. The Orioles talked about how they felt they had no chance against Hoyt in a game 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Walsh played from 1904-1917, it's really difficult to compare two pitchers across two completely different eras. That being said, I'd give the edge to Sale because Walsh played against only white players. The talent pool today (which includes players from all over the world, not just black players) is just so much bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Yes. Chris Sale is the best pitcher to ever play for the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 10:24 AM) Yes. Chris Sale is the best pitcher to ever play for the White Sox. Not picking on you, just adding some food for thought, but when it's worded that way, I think Tom Seaver gets the nod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 10:29 AM) Not picking on you, just adding some food for thought, but when it's worded that way, I think Tom Seaver gets the nod. Yeah. Not when he was with the team though but alright. Fair point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Seaver remember folks won 15 games each year with the Sox with a very good ERA in 1984 and 1985. He was older byt the guy could still pitch. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 26, 2015 -> 11:59 PM) Yeah, Walsh is really the only guy that comes close. Maybe Pierce. Most of our pitchers have been so overrated by us Sox fans... LaMarr Hoyt, Jack McDowell, Mark Buehrle, etc. are so much worse than SoxTalk posters seem to think. Don't get me wrong, they're good, but their stats really aren't great. i'd take issue with buehrle being included here. the guy has been remarkably consistent for an extended period of time, thrown a no-no and perfect game and has a ring. i don't think he's a hall of famer, but if he decided to pitch another five or six years (which i think he could, but won't) i think he'd have numbers that would put him in the hof conversation. he's never been the most dominant pitcher, but there are few who can match the extended consistency he's had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Sale is the best peak I have ever seen with the White Sox. Before I would call him best ever for the franchise, I want to see him hold that peak for a number of years. Guys like Ted Lyons and Ed Walsh dominated their eras. Walsh actually still holds an all-time lead on Sale in ERA+ at 146 to 142. Walsh also leads in FIP, which Sale doesn't even break the top 10 on. Ed Walsh is also a Hall of Famer. Sale can get there, and is well on his way, but for my two cents, best ever consideration takes a larger body of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (thedoctor @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 10:45 AM) i'd take issue with buehrle being included here. the guy has been remarkably consistent for an extended period of time, thrown a no-no and perfect game and has a ring. i don't think he's a hall of famer, but if he decided to pitch another five or six years (which i think he could, but won't) i think he'd have numbers that would put him in the hof conversation. he's never been the most dominant pitcher, but there are few who can match the extended consistency he's had. Yeah, Mark;s chances for the HOF are directly tied to how long he wants to pitch. He's never had a stand out season, but here he is at 212 wins. If he can make a run at 300, does he make it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 10:49 AM) Sale is the best peak I have ever seen with the White Sox. Before I would call him best ever for the franchise, I want to see him hold that peak for a number of years. Guys like Ted Lyons and Ed Walsh dominated their eras. Walsh actually still holds an all-time lead on Sale in ERA+ at 146 to 142. Walsh also leads in FIP, which Sale doesn't even break the top 10 on. Ed Walsh is also a Hall of Famer. Sale can get there, and is well on his way, but for my two cents, best ever consideration takes a larger body of work. Excellent post I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 09:03 AM) Yeah, Mark;s chances for the HOF are directly tied to how long he wants to pitch. He's never had a stand out season, but here he is at 212 wins. If he can make a run at 300, does he make it? If Mark wins 300, I think he's a first ballot hall of famer. I realize in this stat world, wins don't receive the value they once did, but 300 wins is still an extremely impressive accomplishment, especially in this era where starters pitch less and less. I hope Mark makes the hall. Easily my favorite player, for the way he approached the game to the speed at which he pitched. If Manfred wanted to solve baseballs issue with game speed, he'd force every pitcher in baseball to model their approach after Mark. I don't get nostalgic about many guys, but Mark is one of them. A true class act on and off the field and the type of ballplayer you would want your kid to emulate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 12:10 PM) If Mark wins 300, I think he's a first ballot hall of famer. I realize in this stat world, wins don't receive the value they once did, but 300 wins is still an extremely impressive accomplishment, especially in this era where starters pitch less and less. I hope Mark makes the hall. Easily my favorite player, for the way he approached the game to the speed at which he pitched. If Manfred wanted to solve baseballs issue with game speed, he'd force every pitcher in baseball to model their approach after Mark. I don't get nostalgic about many guys, but Mark is one of them. A true class act on and off the field and the type of ballplayer you would want your kid to emulate. Buehrle is one of my all time favorite players. Everything about the guy is exactly what I love about the game of baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 10:12 AM) Buehrle is one of my all time favorite players. Everything about the guy is exactly what I love about the game of baseball. I think Mark needs about 275 wins to secure a spot in the hall (or at least have a fighting chance). Anything less then that and I think it will be tough for him. He does have world series win, world series save, no hitter, and perfect game on his resume which helps (along with all star game's, etc). 5 time all star, 4 time gold glover (how it isn't more, I have no idea). But he has no cy young awards (best was 5th place) and no 20 win seasons. In fact, the most wins he ever had was 19 and then 3 16 win seasons and 1 15 win season (so 5 seasons out of 14 full seasons where he won at least 15 games). It could become 6 out of 15 as he is just 2 wins away from 15 wins this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 27, 2015 -> 12:20 PM) I think Mark needs about 275 wins to secure a spot in the hall (or at least have a fighting chance). Anything less then that and I think it will be tough for him. He does have world series win, world series save, no hitter, and perfect game on his resume which helps (along with all star game's, etc). 5 time all star, 4 time gold glover (how it isn't more, I have no idea). But he has no cy young awards (best was 5th place) and no 20 win seasons. In fact, the most wins he ever had was 19 and then 3 16 win seasons and 1 15 win season (so 5 seasons out of 14 full seasons where he won at least 15 games). It could become 6 out of 15 as he is just 2 wins away from 15 wins this year. If Mark can push his numbers up for 5 or 6 more years, his case will be very similar to Don Sutton, who eventually was voted in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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