southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 QUOTE (Saufley @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 04:11 PM) Well, we couldn't be worse than what they have done over the last few years. And this is exactly why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 QUOTE (VAfan @ Aug 29, 2015 -> 05:26 PM) We drafted Sale and Rodon and Fullmer. We stole Quintana for nothing. We unloaded Jake Peavy for something in return. We got rid of Alex Rios. We signed Jose Abreu on a very reasonable contract. We extended Sale and Quintana on very team-friendly deals. There are a lot of things the Sox have done right. The worst move in my mind was hiring Robin Ventura, then extending him. And it's fair to hang that on Kenny Williams. I used to like KW, and was glad we had him. Now I would tend to agree with those who would be fine if he left. But for my money I'd rather the team lose Ventura and get a real manager. I think that will have more impact on the field than what Williams does. Hahn extended him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 There are a couple of pretty good articles on the Mariners firing the GM in ESPN.com. I didn't know that they had just extended him last August (2014). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 08:43 AM) There are a couple of pretty good articles on the Mariners firing the GM in ESPN.com. I didn't know that they had just extended him last August (2014). Not surprising. They thought they had a team that was right on the edge of competing, invested a lot of money in filling their last couple slots, and then found themselves at the bottom of their division and well out of the race. That's the kind of failure that typically costs people jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 07:09 PM) Not surprising. They thought they had a team that was right on the edge of competing, invested a lot of money in filling their last couple slots, and then found themselves at the bottom of their division and well out of the race. That's the kind of failure that typically costs people jobs. that would be true, unless one would considered how the sox org works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Shapiro to Jays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 08:23 PM) Shapiro to Jays This year gets worse by the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 03:03 AM) Hahn extended him. I'm guessing he did it at the urging of KW. No proof, but everyone has always questioned Ventura's desire to be a manager. The reason I think this? Most new GM's get to pick their own guy or know going in that they have to tolerate the existing guy for a couple of years until the contract is up. Why would Rick extend him the way the last couple of years have gone. I've listened/read a lot of Hahn interviews over the years and IMHO, I think he gets it. He needs a non-meddling environment to execute his plan and do what he needs to do. This includes everything from the manager on down to coming up with a long term game plan. Not let's cut payroll $30MM one year and the next year jack it back up $30MM so we can sign aging vets past their prime in hopes of catching lightning in a bottle. Hahn has made a lot of good moves pointed to the future as was mentioned in an earlier post. And one of the best things he's done is looking long term to building a productive farm system Not drafting the almost major leage ready talent that we can trade away for another past his prime veteran. That's not how you build a winner. Meanwhile for a team that is "not rebuilding" we may have our 3rd top 10 Pick in a row in the draft. Would have been a lot cheaper to Jerry to see attendance erode and keep the payroll lower while they draft good talent instead of giving up draft picks for David Robertson and Melky. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 08:23 PM) Shapiro to Jays I have a strong distaste for Mark Shapyro for how he mispronounces my last name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Aug 31, 2015 -> 01:33 AM) This year gets worse by the day. No one is going to hire Kenny Williams for gosh sakes. You fire him or keep him. No team wants that guy. He exudes ego and doesn't have the resume to back up his ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 11:38 PM) No one is going to hire Kenny Williams for gosh sakes. You fire him or keep him. No team wants that guy. He exudes ego and doesn't have the resume to back up his ego. I'm with ya here Greg. Nobody is gonna hire KW and give him final authority. At absolute best he'd come on in an advisory role to another executive who has final say on all transactions and budget allocation. Only JR is foolish enough to give this man final authority at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I doubt KW leaves. I just want an all new coaching staff starting with a veteran manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 11:13 PM) I doubt KW leaves. I just want an all new coaching staff starting with a veteran manager. I'd be very surprised if you even got that. I suspect now more than ever everyone returns next year, KW, Bell, Robin and his cadre of clown coaches. It's really hard to find any silver lining for the franchise in all this and it's worse with the Cubs seemingly figured it out enough to look like they could be a factor for years to come while the Sox keep "hoping" they can figure something out. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 11:54 PM) I'd be very surprised if you even got that. I suspect now more than ever everyone returns next year, KW, Bell, Robin and his cadre of clown coaches. It's really hard to find any silver lining for the franchise in all this and it's worse with the Cubs seemingly figured it out enough to look like they could be a factor for years to come while the Sox keep "hoping" they can figure something out. Mark I wish there was some type of computer/quant simulation which could demonstrate the impact of a manager/coaching staff...that it could "run" 1000 seasons with Ventura in charge of the Cubs, and Maddon in charge of the White Sox. Some will swear until they're blue in the face it wouldn't make any difference at all. An equal number who have put up with the tail end of the Ozzie show and then the abysmal baserunning/fundamentals/execution/defense of the 2013-2015 White Sox teams would swear on their graves that a better manager could maximize this team's talent and at least have them close to .500 if not better. Obviously SOMETHING happened the first 5 months or 2012, just subtracting Guillen from the equation...yet Ventura's inexperience showed up down the stretch. Yet those who still advocate for keeping Robin around will use the argument of a number of teams changing managers mid-season and it not making much of a positive impact (or is it simply the fact that most of the teams with managers getting fired weren't very good in the first place?). It does seem that the best time to implement a new system/strategy from a managerial/coaching standpoint is in the offseason. Edited August 31, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 09:33 PM) This year gets worse by the day. At least he's out of the division? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 31, 2015 -> 06:54 AM) I'd be very surprised if you even got that. I suspect now more than ever everyone returns next year, KW, Bell, Robin and his cadre of clown coaches. It's really hard to find any silver lining for the franchise in all this and it's worse with the Cubs seemingly figured it out enough to look like they could be a factor for years to come while the Sox keep "hoping" they can figure something out. Mark I believe Mark is right, but with the Cubs dominating, the Sox enter next season in deep trouble. They'll get no publicity and no fans if Robin and the clowns come back. We're not going to suddenly get good, folks. They may have to clean house just to save the franchise in Chicago. Fans aren't dumb. It's gonna be repeat of this year. The Central has Robin's number. Gotta try a new manager and staff and get rid of LaRoche, Melky, Lexi, et. all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 They can't possibly return Robin. I love my Sox but I won't watch next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 31, 2015 -> 07:18 AM) I wish there was some type of computer/quant simulation which could demonstrate the impact of a manager/coaching staff...that it could "run" 1000 seasons with Ventura in charge of the Cubs, and Maddon in charge of the White Sox. Some will swear until they're blue in the face it wouldn't make any difference at all. An equal number who have put up with the tail end of the Ozzie show and then the abysmal baserunning/fundamentals/execution/defense of the 2013-2015 White Sox teams would swear on their graves that a better manager could maximize this team's talent and at least have them close to .500 if not better. Obviously SOMETHING happened the first 5 months or 2012, just subtracting Guillen from the equation...yet Ventura's inexperience showed up down the stretch. Yet those who still advocate for keeping Robin around will use the argument of a number of teams changing managers mid-season and it not making much of a positive impact (or is it simply the fact that most of the teams with managers getting fired weren't very good in the first place?). It does seem that the best time to implement a new system/strategy from a managerial/coaching standpoint is in the offseason. well let me add this, obviously something happen coming out of spring training that cause this downward season. if poster don't want to believe that, then lets look at the remedial training the FO tried to put RV in when the season is already started. here is one thing, RV has pride, maybe that will come into play here and he will not subject himself for another season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Aug 31, 2015 -> 12:13 AM) I doubt KW leaves. I just want an all new coaching staff starting with a veteran manager. I don't necessarily want a veteran manager. I want A manager with experience coaching in major-league baseball. I also like one who is attuned to modern thinking and analytics. The front office did a dreadful job last off-season so there really needs to be some churning there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 31, 2015 -> 07:21 AM) I don't necessarily want a veteran manager. I want A manager with experience coaching in major-league baseball. I also like one who is attuned to modern thinking and analytics. The front office did a dreadful job last off-season so there really needs to be some churning there too. If you need experience coaching major league baseball to manage, how do you know all that Robin Ventura does wrong. Do you have that experience? It is funny how many people with no experience seem to think this experience is the most critical piece, yet with their zero experience, seem to be able to tell you all that a manager does wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 What is RV's current contract status? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Aug 31, 2015 -> 02:52 AM) They can't possibly return Robin. I love my Sox but I won't watch next season. Prepare to not watch next season them. They've given every indication that he'll be back next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 31, 2015 -> 08:36 AM) What is RV's current contract status? At the beginning of the 2014 season, we agreed to a "multi-year extension" with him, without actual terms of the contract being announced. From what I understand, managerial contracts don't really matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Shapiro takes Toronto's team president position. Hope everyone is ready for more Kenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 31, 2015 -> 08:28 AM) If you need experience coaching major league baseball to manage, how do you know all that Robin Ventura does wrong. Do you have that experience? It is funny how many people with no experience seem to think this experience is the most critical piece, yet with their zero experience, seem to be able to tell you all that a manager does wrong. It's unbelievable people are defending Robin when his performance is so far below deserving to be fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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