White Sox Futility Under Williams/Hahn/Ventura

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I understand what you mean.

 

And I don't mean to antagonize you. I like the guys here, but I just am so frustrated with the direction we have gone. And when you take a step back, it just looks so much worse. They go for it every year and are still consistently bad.

We weren't going for it last season. This year ya. That was stupid but it only cost us money and some lesser prospects. I'm ok with that. With that said, what will we do moving forward? That's what will tell me all I need to know about this organization.

[Panerista]

We weren't going for it last season. This year ya. That was stupid but it only cost us money and some lesser prospects. I'm ok with that. With that said, what will we do moving forward? That's what will tell me all I need to know about this organization.

If we could just see Courtney Hawkins or Tim Anderson, or any fielding prospect turn out I would feel so much better, honestly. Every year it just fields like

 

"Begin Josh Fields era..."

"Praise Bacon!"

"TCQ!"

 

And so on

[Bigsoxhurt35]

If we could just see Courtney Hawkins or Tim Anderson, or any fielding prospect turn out I would feel so much better, honestly. Every year it just fields like

 

"Begin Josh Fields era..."

"Praise Bacon!"

"TCQ!"

 

And so on

Ya. We got another year of waiting for Tim. Courtney has a ways to go. We need to find an impact bat desperately this offseason.

[Dick Allen]

When do they bat? Or field? Kris Bryant is a higher WAR than the active guys you mentioned, including Q, combined.

 

Drafted starters aren't pieces. Go look over those drafted position players again.

Go to Cubstalk and be happy Cubby boy.

 

You also should take a math class. Sale alone has a higher fWAR than Bryant.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Panerista]

Go to Cubstalk and be happy Cubby boy.

 

You also should take a math class. Sale alone has a higher fWAR than Bryant.

Regardless, we need a heck of a lot more than pitching. Like one fielding prospect to turn out.

 

Also, don't call me names. I don't call you names.

[Chicago White Sox]

We've sucked for a number of years. Where are our Bryant and Schwarber?

 

I'll wait.

 

Also, what examples do you have of the bold? The teams that are doing full organizational rebuilds are in significantly better shape than the White Sox or the Padres.

 

Welcome to the new MLB.

Lol...we've had three top 10 draft picks since 1990. Rarely have we sucked outside of the past two seasons. And as Abreu mentioned, we got Rodon & Fulmer as a result. And without question, I'll take Rodon over Schwarber as this point in time.

 

As for your rebuilding comment, I just pointed out the numerous reasons the Cubs are a likely playoff team that have nothing to do with rebuilding. The Astros may be an example, but let's not act like this isn't their first year of success. They aren't the 1990's Braves just yet. Who else do you got? The Pirates? Not sure how old you are, but they were terrible for like forever. Same goes for the Royals. There are lots of examples of rebuilding gone wrong, much more than the successes.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Lol...we've had three top 10 draft picks since 1990. Rarely have we sucked outside of the past two seasons. And as Abreu mentioned, we got Rodon & Fulmer as a result. And without question, I'll take Rodon over Schwarber as this point in time.

 

As for your rebuilding comment, I just pointed out the numerous reasons the Cubs are a likely playoff team that have nothing to do with rebuilding. The Astros may be an example, but let's not act like this isn't their first year of success. They aren't the 1990's Braves just yet. Who else do you got? The Pirates? Not sure how old you are, but they were terrible for like forever. Same goes for the Royals. There are lots of examples of rebuilding gone wrong, much more than the successes.

I've never been a fan of a complete rebuild all through the system. Sure I want some things blown up like the coaching staff, but we have enough of a core especially pitching to keep going. It's time for the front office to start hitting on some hitters through the draft, free agency and trades.

[Lip Man 1]

One thing is certain one of the possible reasons for not rebuilding completely (or even mentioning that word) is because of the impact it would have on attendance.

 

I think we can throw that one out the window. If they rebuild and only get 12 thousand a game that's not much different from what they are regularly getting now, 14-18 thousand.

 

With all the outside revenue streams pouring money in MLB teams attendance should no longer be used as a reason to do or not do anything in my opinion.

 

Mark

[jenksycat]

Starts at the top. This franchise needs a new owner for anything to change.

[OmarComing25]

I still completely disagree that a full rebuild is necessary or the right move, especially with our rotation. We need to make a few savvy moves and have a couple young guys turn into usable pieces, and I see no reason we can't be a pretty good contender by 2017. Hell, if our team this year just repeated their 2014 seasons, we'd likely have a wildcard spot right now. The situation is not extremely dire by any means. Half the reasons for the Cubs success this year were guys picked up off the scrap heap. We hit on a couple similar-type moves and suddenly everything looks different.

 

Yes we have a lot of holes on the position player side, but we have a lot of pitching talent in the organization, and if we continue to develop them into guys that can contribute at the ML level we can trade our surplus to fill those holes. We don't have a horribly aging team, no crippling contracts, and we've been drafting a lot better in the last few years both locally and internationally. We're not necessarily in an enviable position of course, but I don't see reason for such extreme pessimism, especially considering we lost 99 games just two years ago and in today's game you only need to win 86ish games to be a contender.

[OmarComing25]

Another reason I don't like a full rebuild is because I don't have faith in proper execution. A big problem has been the inability to develop hitters, but if we go full rebuild with the same crew, then that doesn't fix the root problem. We need a change at the top before it makes sense to commit to a full rebuild.

[LDF]

Another reason I don't like a full rebuild is because I don't have faith in proper execution. A big problem has been the inability to develop hitters, but if we go full rebuild with the same crew, then that doesn't fix the root problem. We need a change at the top before it makes sense to commit to a full rebuild.

 

i like to think that a full rebuild would need a minor league full of respectful prospects. that is why i do not think the sox can do it. last yr or the yr before.

 

now that is if most want a thorough rebuild. now if they want to go about it in a half arse way, then who knows.....

[Bigsoxhurt35]

In fairness to a complete rebuild, this attendance already sucks.

[LDF]

In fairness to a complete rebuild, this attendance already sucks.

 

and i would say, the sox fans will not stand and wait for a "rebuild" according to the owners. even thou the sox been rebuilding for a while now.

[Chicago White Sox]

I've never been a fan of a complete rebuild all through the system. Sure I want some things blown up like the coaching staff, but we have enough of a core especially pitching to keep going. It's time for the front office to start hitting on some hitters through the draft, free agency and trades.

I agree, I'm more than ready for changes, but rebuilding isn't one of them. I think it's time to officially cut ties with KW and allow Hahn to have a chance to realize his vision while also making him accountable for all personel decisions. I'd also like to let go of Robin and actually hire an experienced manager. Robin seems like a good guy, but he's a terrible in-game manager IMO and an easy spot to upgrade. And without question, Buddy Bell needs to go. I get player development is a difficult job and heavily reliant on the players brought into the organization, but he has so few success stories on the position player side that it's way beyond time to move on. Make these three changes and I feel much more confident about the leadership of the organization going forward. And with one voice and stronger leadership throughout, I feel more confident in our ability to acquire, develop, & coach up position player talent. I'd at least like to give Hahn and his team a year or two to improve this offense before I even think about ripping apart a pitching staff that has a chance to be very special in the near future.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I agree, I'm more than ready for changes, but rebuilding isn't one of them. I think it's time to officially cut ties with KW and allow Hahn to have a chance to realize his vision while also making him accountable for all personel decisions. I'd also like to let go of Robin and actually hire an experienced manager. Robin seems like a good guy, but he's a terrible in-game manager IMO and an easy spot to upgrade. And without question, Buddy Bell needs to go. I get player development is a difficult job and heavily reliant on the players brought into the organization, but he has so few success stories on the position player side that it's way beyond time to move on. Make these three changes and I feel much more confident about the leadership of the organization going forward. And with one voice and stronger leadership throughout, I feel more confident in our ability to acquire, develop, & coach up position player talent. I'd at least like to give Hahn and his team a year or two to improve this offense before I even think about ripping apart a pitching staff that has a chance to be very special in the near future.

It's not like this team is finishing with a top 5 pick each season. We have a core. Time for the front office to start hitting. s*** or get off the pot.

[Jerksticks]

I think our rebuilding is going pretty well. So well that we took a shot at the WS this year, year 2. So well that alot of you are pissed we didn't do better. You're pissed because, well, damn it actually looked pretty decent on paper after only a one year core-flip. Stay the course fellas. Don't jump ship. We're getting better not worse.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I think our rebuilding is going pretty well. So well that we took a shot at the WS this year, year 2. So well that alot of you are pissed we didn't do better. You're pissed because, well, damn it actually looked pretty decent on paper after only a one year core-flip. Stay the course fellas. Don't jump ship. We're getting better not worse.

My issue is this team can't develop hitters to save their lives.

[LDF]

My issue is this team can't develop hitters to save their lives.

 

i believe that this can not continue. question is what would be the trigger or what would need to change.

 

maybe just maybe it is Hahn.

[lord chas]

Starts at the top. This franchise needs a new owner for anything to change.

Bingo. Until Jerry sells the team or dies the enabling culture will remain

[SCCWS]

I think our rebuilding is going pretty well. So well that we took a shot at the WS this year, year 2. So well that alot of you are pissed we didn't do better. You're pissed because, well, damn it actually looked pretty decent on paper after only a one year core-flip. Stay the course fellas. Don't jump ship. We're getting better not worse.

 

 

I am not so sure. We lost 89 games last year and are on pace to lose 85 this year. We finished 4th in the division last year and probably will this year. Not sure that is a lot of progress. I think we have brought in some younger players which is good but also we have also developed 2 more problems in 3rd and RF. On the plus side we did add Fulmer.

[Balta1701]

I think our rebuilding is going pretty well. So well that we took a shot at the WS this year, year 2. So well that alot of you are pissed we didn't do better. You're pissed because, well, damn it actually looked pretty decent on paper after only a one year core-flip. Stay the course fellas. Don't jump ship. We're getting better not worse.

When a team near the bottom of the league "takes a shot at the world series" and winds up still near the bottom of the league, that's not a compliment on their successful rebuilding, that's a statement that management has no idea what their roster actually can do.

[Chicago White Sox]

My issue is this team can't develop hitters to save their lives.

I gotta disagree here. I think the team can't develop the pure athlete types who completely lack plate discipline. The guys who naturally have some understanding of the strike zone have done much better, we just haven't drafted or signed a lot of these guys in the past. However, we're finally starting to see a few of the legitimate "baseball" types hit the majors and have some success. Sanchez was horrible for a while, but he has a wRC+ of 113 in the 2nd half of the season. Micah came up earlier and was more than competent with the bat (defense a different story). Saladino has struggled, but I've seen enough to believe he can be close to a league average bat once he makes some adjustments. Thompson has looked great in a very small sample. Even guys like Phegley & Semien have done pretty well with the bats considering they're effectively rookies.

 

One positive we can take away is our new director of amateur scouting understands the importance of plate discipline and being able to consistently make contact. The organization has shown an inability to develop toolsy players, so it needs to stop bringing as many of those types in (at least until Buddy Bell is gone) and focus on acquiring pure/natural hitters. Sounds like that's exactly what Hostetler plans on doing and I couldn't be more excited. Won't solve all our problems (again Buddy Bell), but at least it's a start. Combine that with the rejuvenation of our Latin America operations and we should start seeing some progress.

[Balta1701]

I am not so sure. We lost 89 games last year and are on pace to lose 85 this year. We finished 4th in the division last year and probably will this year. Not sure that is a lot of progress. I think we have brought in some younger players which is good but also we have also developed 2 more problems in 3rd and RF. On the plus side we did add Fulmer.

Yes, we improved marginally on our record this year. It took spending >$50 million/season in new money and trading for a pitcher 1 year away from free agency and having a team that is unbelievably, remarkably healthy to upgrade by ~4 games. There's a good chance that'll be just enough to land us a first round pick in 2016 that isn't protected.

 

This isn't complimentary.

 

I didn't wade into this thread last night, y'all know how I feel about these guys, but man this attitude of "we're going the right direction look at our record!" really frustrates me. Just to tread water from this season we'll have to spend like $25 million in new money and attendance is going to go the opposite direction next year again.

[LDF]

Yes, we improved marginally on our record this year. It took spending >$50 million/season in new money and trading for a pitcher 1 year away from free agency and having a team that is unbelievably, remarkably healthy to upgrade by ~4 games. There's a good chance that'll be just enough to land us a first round pick in 2016 that isn't protected.

 

This isn't complimentary.

 

I didn't wade into this thread last night, y'all know how I feel about these guys, but man this attitude of "we're going the right direction look at our record!" really frustrates me. Just to tread water from this season we'll have to spend like $25 million in new money and attendance is going to go the opposite direction next year again.

 

while many tries to look at the best if possible.

 

i really would like the to know, how they really feel about their bumbling around, calling this bad luck.

 

a post was made on the legacy of the present owners. the real question should be what are their opinion on their legacy of half not of incompetence, mismanagement and a futile record of poor decision making.

 

and since JR is the most focal point here, i real would like to think what he really thinks of his legacy.