White Sox Futility Under Williams/Hahn/Ventura

[Quin]

In all fairness, Epstein originally drafted Rizzo. He just found a way to get him back via trade once he took over the Cubs.

 

Yeah, he had Jed Hoyer gift him to him.

[Flash Tizzle]

Yeah, he had Jed Hoyer gift him to him.

Anytime someone wants to gift wrap an all-star for us would be appreciated

[Balta1701]

Anytime someone wants to gift wrap an all-star for us would be appreciated

Kenny will trade Montas somewhere this offseason and then immediately be hired there.

 

For us to pull off that scam we'd have to hire someone from outside of our organization. Ha.

[greg775]

If anyone on this team is a "big-time problem", it's John Danks, not Melky.

Cmon. I can start listing guys WAY worse than Danks on this team. Danks has at least competed and given effort start in and out. Some of these everyday players are stealing money (again) this season.

[LittleHurt05]

Anytime someone wants to gift wrap an all-star for us would be appreciated

 

Fire Kenny and hire Dave Stewart. When Arizona hires Kenny, trade him Montas for Goldschmidt. Bam!

[gosox41]

Turned on B&B today, and while they can be jerks, Matt Abbatacola's numbers on air today were staggering and disappointing.

 

 

Under Williams/Hahn/Ventura (3+ seasons)

• White Sox 281-331 (50 games under)^
• Twins 267-346 (79 games under)*
• Astros (120 below .500)*
• Cubs (66 under)*
• Padres (31 games under)^
• Mets (17 games under)*

*Team getting notably better, have announced they will be bad, and do a complete rebuild. All showing significant signs of improvement.

^Teams that reload every season ("Reload" every year)

 

AL Central

• Tigers (49 Games over .500)
• Royals (37 Games over 500)
• Indians (2 games under .500)

 

White Sox Record

• Total: 43 games Under in Division
• 30-39 against the Indians
• 27-41 against the Tigers
• 24-45 against the Royals
• 35-34 against the Twins

 

I continually call for a rebuild on this board because it is critical we get one. We require a change in philosophy, new staff, move players like Jose Abreu for pieces/picks, and we need to draft better.

 

If that's not bad enough, here is our position drafted players since 2001 by WAR

 

 

 

I blame KW as the number #1 culprit. I really like Hahn and thinks his hands are tied. I wish Robin would just admit he doesn't care and just leave.

 

It would have been quicker for this team to rebuild then it is to slowly drag this crap out while trying to compete almost every year. It's complete idiotic and doesn't work often. It doesn't take a genius to see that. Pathetic how dumb they are.

 

 

Bob

[Jose Abreu]

Cmon. I can start listing guys WAY worse than Danks on this team. Danks has at least competed and given effort start in and out. Some of these everyday players are stealing money (again) this season.

Melky competes and gives effort start in and out as well. Perhaps Danks isn't the biggest issue on the team, I suppose some of my picking on him was because I was replying to you, but Melky isn't the biggest problem either.

[harkness99]

If the trend continues as is... more then just ventura will be gone.

 

 

[greg775]

Melky competes and gives effort start in and out as well. Perhaps Danks isn't the biggest issue on the team, I suppose some of my picking on him was because I was replying to you, but Melky isn't the biggest problem either.

Melky is really a bad baseball player any way u slice it. He's another guy who should be a utility player. Sox roster is full of those guys.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Melky is really a bad baseball player any way u slice it. He's another guy who should be a utility player. Sox roster is full of those guys.

Danks is nothing more than a bullpen arm at this point.

[caulfield12]

Other than the starting pitching, there aren't many reasons for hope.

 

We can't even get the opportunity to see Thompson play because it will "block" Cabrera/LaRoche/Avi. Same thing with Samardzija, who knowing the White Sox we'll probably get stuck paying him $16+ million and receiving a Danksish ERA to boot.

 

Saladino and Sanchez still feel like complementary players who would undoubtedly be perfect fits coming off the bench for the Cardinals.

 

Eaton's had a pretty inconsistent year overall (baserunning and defense have both gone downhill) and he's clearly our 2nd best position player/bat after Jose Abreu. That tells you all you need to know.

 

Unless Thompson, Anderson and Hawkins break the trend of being athletes that can actually play the game, we'll be fortunate to be competing in 2017.

 

Not to mention the most depressing fact of all...we need to have good teams in 2017-19 in order to get the most beneficial new broadcast rights package. If we play like we've been playing for another three seasons, the White Sox might simply cease to exist except in the hearts and minds of a few die hards.

 

 

[captain54]

Not to mention the most depressing fact of all...we need to have good teams in 2017-19 in order to get the most beneficial new broadcast rights package. If we play like we've been playing for another three seasons, the White Sox might simply cease to exist except in the hearts and minds of a few die hards.

 

The most depressing fact of all is that as long as this is a Reinsdorf led franchise, there will be no accountability of failure from any of the decision makers both on and off the field.. The franchise will continue to be run like some company softball pickup league team..

 

 

 

[Boogua]

I feel like KW is looked at similarly to Krause was with the Bulls. Great when they were succeeding, but chastised when they were losing. The fact of the matter is that they brought us rings. Sustained success?? Give me a ring any day of the week.

 

E: And I agree. He has to go, just as Krause had to go in the early 2000s. I just wouldn't look at the guy that traded for Podsednik, signed Iguchi, traded Loaiza for Contreras, brought in AJ and El Duque, as well as an alcoholic like Bobby Jenks and then call him a terrible GM. I'd take that year over many.

 

Double edit due to intoxication: I was a young teenager when he traded Jeremy Reed for Freddy and I thought he was trading the next Ted Williams because Jeremy was hitting like .400 in the minors at the time (IIRC). So add that to the moves.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Boogua

[captain54]

I feel like KW is looked at similarly to Krause was with the Bulls. Great when they were succeeding, but chastised when they were losing. The fact of the matter is that they brought us rings. Sustained success?? Give me a ring any day of the week.

 

Krause brought rings to the Bulls? Once MJ was gone the rings stopped, and the party was over for Krause..

 

Its not even a matter of sustained success. this WS franchise is being plunged into complete and total irrelevancy in this town..

Edited August 30, 2015 by captain54

[Boogua]

Krause brought rings to the Bulls? Once MJ was gone the rings stopped, and the party was over for Krause..

 

Its not even a matter of sustained success. the franchise is being plunged into complete and total irrelevancy in this town..

Hpw many rings did Lebron bring to Cleveland? Shaq to Orlando? I'm a huge Jordan guy (trust me), but Krause definitely brought in some help.

 

There is never total irrelevancy in this town. I thought that was the Hawks. I was wayyy wrong.

[Jerksticks]

I feel like KW is looked at similarly to Krause was with the Bulls. Great when they were succeeding, but chastised when they were losing. The fact of the matter is that they brought us rings. Sustained success?? Give me a ring any day of the week.

 

E: And I agree. He has to go, just as Krause had to go in the early 2000s. I just wouldn't look at the guy that traded for Podsednik, signed Iguchi, traded Loaiza for Contreras, brought in AJ and El Duque, as well as an alcoholic like Bobby Jenks and then call him a terrible GM. I'd take that year over many.

 

Double edit due to intoxication: I was a young teenager when he traded Jeremy Reed for Freddy and I thought he was trading the next Ted Williams because Jeremy was hitting like .400 in the minors at the time (IIRC). So add that to the moves.

Shhhh man. Nobody round here wants to give credit where due. It's always the government's fault!

[greg775]

I didn't want to start a new, negative thread but I got to thinking that this may be my least favorite White Sox season in the last 20 years. Do you guys agree? Has it been that bad for you?

Sox got swept in the opening series and played generally bad baseball all year. Except for Saladino's quick start and Trayce's performance there's been nothing good to happen offensively. The new guys Melky and LaRoche were so bad right out of the gate it really made me mad.

The defense and baserunning was so bad most of the season, not to mention the awful decisions by the first and third base coaches that it truly made this my least favorite season in 20 years.

 

Now the only way to cap it off and make it truly abysmal? Stagger in and continue playing like total s*** against the divisional teams this final month. A 10-20 record the final month would be icing on the cake and par for the course.

 

Do u all agree with me about how much this team blows and has been so so painful to follow more than other Sox teams?

[SCCWS]

Melky is really a bad baseball player any way u slice it. He's another guy who should be a utility player. Sox roster is full of those guys.

 

Not making 14 Mil

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

The Sox have been the place where veteren hitters go to die. It really boggles my mind.

 

Melky had been a pretty good hitter, even post roids. Then it stopped. Bringing him in was the right thing to do, it just didn't work out. We saw when he was going good for awhile that the Sox were a fairly decent team. His inability to sustain that success is puzzling. To me that falls on the guy no one talks about, and that's Todd Steverson.

 

There's such a negative vibe going on surrounding Robin that Todd seems to get no blame whatsoever.

 

With the pitching the Sox have, I just can't bring myself to thinking they should do a complete rebuild.

 

Maybe you "Throw in the towel" on 2016 and let the kids play but come 2017, when you can potentially throw out a cheap rotation of Sale-Q-Rodon-Fulmer-EJ, there's no way I wouldn't try to compete. Sadly this most likely would mean hitting on a couple FA hitters, and also swinging a trade that more that likely would feature the likes of Montas, Danish, and Micah.

 

I can envision the 3 year plan we hear about.

Edited August 30, 2015 by scs787

[oldsox]

How about the Illini's futility under Tim Beckman? Yeesh. 12-25?

Did you know he had been fired when you posted this? Just now read about it.

[GreatScott82]

I really can't see much of an argument that justifies keeping KW or RV. I'm still on the fence with Hahn, but im losing hope in that area as well.

 

The sad thing is, I really don't see any moves being made under the Reinsdorf loyalty regime. Pretty much any GM and manager in this league would have been fired after year 2 with those dog crap numbers. Especially if you didn't even partake in a rebuild. THey are on year 4 together and haven't been in contention since September of 2012. What am I missing here? They made little progress in advancing the farm system, over valued the "new core" and have been playing musical chairs with guys at 3b and 2b. Seriously, I believe this "3 year plan" was pulled out of thin air in an effort to make Sox fans believe they are making progress. Luckily, Sox fans are not naïve, we are tired of the suck fest and want someone new calling the shots at the top of this withering mountain. We are not afraid of a rebuild.. In fact, we would embrace a rebuild.

Edited August 30, 2015 by GreatScott82

[kitekrazy]

I really can't see much of an argument that justifies keeping KW or RV. I'm still on the fence with Hahn, but in losing hope that area as well.

 

The sad thing is, I really don't see any moves being made under the Reinsdorf loyalty regime. Pretty much any GM and manager in this league would have been fired after year 2 with those dog crap numbers. Especially if you didn't even partake in a rebuild. THey are on year 4 together and haven't been in contention since September of 2012. What am I missing here? They made little progress in advancing the farm system, over valued the "new core" and have been playing musical chairs with guys at 3b and 2b. Seriously, I believe this "3 year plan" was pulled out of thin air in an effort to make Sox fans believe they are making progress. Luckily, Sox fans are not naïve, we are tired of the suck fest and want someone new calling the shots at the top of this withering mountain. We are not afraid of a rebuild.. In fact, we would embrace a rebuild.

 

No accountability anywhere, even down to the players. They like it here. My theory for their win streak is some guys where worried about getting traded.

 

[greg775]

The Sox have been the place where veteren hitters go to die. It really boggles my mind.

 

Melky had been a pretty good hitter, even post roids. Then it stopped. Bringing him in was the right thing to do, it just didn't work out. We saw when he was going good for awhile that the Sox were a fairly decent team. His inability to sustain that success is puzzling. To me that falls on the guy no one talks about, and that's Todd Steverson.

 

There's such a negative vibe going on surrounding Robin that Todd seems to get no blame whatsoever.

 

With the pitching the Sox have, I just can't bring myself to thinking they should do a complete rebuild.

 

Maybe you "Throw in the towel" on 2016 and let the kids play but come 2017, when you can potentially throw out a cheap rotation of Sale-Q-Rodon-Fulmer-EJ, there's no way I wouldn't try to compete. Sadly this most likely would mean hitting on a couple FA hitters, and also swinging a trade that more that likely would feature the likes of Montas, Danish, and Micah.

 

I can envision the 3 year plan we hear about.

 

Steverson has the cliche going, that he's a brilliant mind. Walker was a buffoon. No reasoning behind the cliches. I read somebody no hitting coach alive can get a veteran to listen. That's why there are so many shifts. They are uncoachable.

Edited August 30, 2015 by greg775

[2nd_city_saint787]

Steverson has the cliche going, that he's a brilliant mind. Walker was a buffoon. No reasoning behind the cliches. I read somebody no hitting coach alive can get a veteran to listen. That's why there are so many shifts. They are uncoachable.

 

Why is Steverson considered some brilliant mind? Sans Addison Russell, what hitter has come out of the Oakland organization where he was the roving minor league hitting coach?

 

I follow this board religiously and I feel like I'm the only one to bring up Steverson, and I just don't get that.

[LDF]

Why is Steverson considered some brilliant mind? Sans Addison Russell, what hitter has come out of the Oakland organization where he was the roving minor league hitting coach?

 

I follow this board religiously and I feel like I'm the only one to bring up Steverson, and I just don't get that.

 

you do have a point, but wouldn't also mean that fundamentally is what he promotes.

 

now, i do not know if this is the answer or not. i am just wondering.