chitownsportsfan Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 The Mariners rushed Zunino and possibly (probably) ruined him. He was trying to adjust his swing while full time catching and goodness what a waste of a 2nd overall pick. I find the Mariners and Sox have many similiarites as franchises and inabiliy to develop position players, often because they rush them, is one of them. Please, do NOT RUSH Tim Anderson next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 12:59 PM) lol @ learning something. Clinging to the same old outdated cliches isn't going to teach anyone anything. This is the exact mentality that brings us back decades to White Flag any time a trade is made. You seem to bring up that trade more than the rest of the board combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 05:59 PM) lol @ learning something. Clinging to the same old outdated cliches isn't going to teach anyone anything. This is the exact mentality that brings us back decades to White Flag any time a trade is made. so what have i said that has mention many times before.... i am advocating on taking the BPA regardless of agent and any salary restrictions. so with that, enlighten me on how that is the white flag mentality..... but by your own words, stop living in the past on past mistakes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) so what have i said that has mention many times before.... i am advocating on taking the BPA regardless of agent and any salary restrictions. so with that, enlighten me on how that is the white flag mentality..... but by your own words, stop living in the past on past mistakes..... Why draft a player when you can't meet his salary demands or has already said he wants to go to college? When you take a player that won't sign, that's one less player from that draft, most likely a college senior or junior that you can possibly hit on. It just doesn't make sense. At all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 06:03 PM) Boras has very little leverage left with regards to the draft. He tried to get Hahn not to draft Boras according to one report, and as we saw....hahn called his bluff. but the team may be in a situation that he better show something, for an example, a top 10 pick instead of a comp pick the following yr's draft. but in general i will admit that the leverage of the super agent as diminished. but the main problem i do see is, if the player willing to sit around for his next draft time. that will raise a problem if he gets hurt. this happen 2 yrs ago and the player lost money that was on the table with hou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 07:17 PM) Why draft a player when you can't meet his salary demands or has already said he wants to go to college? When you take a player that won't sign, that's one less player from that draft, most likely a college senior or junior that you can possibly hit on. It just doesn't make sense. At all. and have been reading what is or has been posted..... BPA..... no restrictions attached to that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 01:20 PM) and have been reading what is or has been posted..... BPA..... no restrictions attached to that statement. So, when you draft 5 plus players between rounds 11-25 that don't sign? What does that accomplish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) so what have i said that has mention many times before.... i am advocating on taking the BPA regardless of agent and any salary restrictions. so with that, enlighten me on how that is the white flag mentality..... but by your own words, stop living in the past on past mistakes..... We have been for years now, while still acknowledging that the current CBA actually exists.. That is the point. Your ranted is not applicable anymore. It hasn't been for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 01:23 PM) So, when you draft 5 plus players between rounds 11-25 that don't sign? What does that accomplish? Realistically, if you truly picked BPA without any regards for bonuses at each pick you'd blow through your draft allotment before Round 10. You might be able to get your first five picks signed under the caps. If you signed everyone, you'd quite literally be forfeiting draft picks. I am curious which strategy LDF is actually endorsing here... The lost draft picks, or the unsigned picks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 07:23 PM) So, when you draft 5 plus players between rounds 11-25 that don't sign? What does that accomplish? and that is not part of this conversation. again, you are putting restrictions on draft picks.... so in essence how is that different from a decade ago??? just using another way to phrase the sentence / question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 07:23 PM) We have been for years now, while still acknowledging that the current CBA actually exists.. That is the point. Your ranted is not applicable anymore. It hasn't been for years. i am saying with more intense words. take the BPA.... regardless of anything. so how is that the same theory esp when the sox org didn't follow it and found reason to justify their actions. now you have asked some interesting questions, how bout answering those question instead of diverting the the subject at hand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 01:26 PM) Realistically, if you truly picked BPA without any regards for bonuses at each pick you'd blow through your draft allotment before Round 10. You might be able to get your first five picks signed under the caps. If you signed everyone, you'd quite literally be forfeiting draft picks. I am curious which strategy LDF is actually endorsing here... The lost draft picks, or the unsigned picks? QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 01:28 PM) and that is not part of this conversation. again, you are putting restrictions on draft picks.... so in essence how is that different from a decade ago??? just using another way to phrase the sentence / question. I think you're really losing people here with your argument because people are confused what exactly you are trying to mean. While SS2k5 is saying if you do draft bpa, you blow through your draft pool money and that is the loss of draft picks which I know you aren't for. So you draft them, and they don't sign, it doesn't nothing to help the Sox in the future. D I don't really know your angle here because it is wrong. I'm sorry for being harsh, but it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 01:28 PM) and that is not part of this conversation. again, you are putting restrictions on draft picks.... so in essence how is that different from a decade ago??? just using another way to phrase the sentence / question. So which are you in favor of... not being able to sign all of your draft picks, or forfeiting future draft picks for violations of the CBA's rules on draft pick bonus caps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 01:36 PM) i am saying with more intense words. take the BPA.... regardless of anything. so how is that the same theory esp when the sox org didn't follow it and found reason to justify their actions. now you have asked some interesting questions, how bout answering those question instead of diverting the the subject at hand.... You can't take BPA in the baseball draft. It doesn't work that way. Here's a scenario for you: A stud HS player that is a top 25 talent in the draft is on the board in the 3rd rd when the Sox pick. He has said that he wants $5 million or he's going to college. It's well known that this player is headed to college instead of pro. Would you still take this player in the 3rd round because he's technically the best draftable player currently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 07:36 PM) I think you're really losing people here with your argument because people are confused what exactly you are trying to mean. While SS2k5 is saying if you do draft bpa, you blow through your draft pool money and that is the loss of draft picks which I know you aren't for. So you draft them, and they don't sign, it doesn't nothing to help the Sox in the future. D I don't really know your angle here because it is wrong. I'm sorry for being harsh, but it is. you you really know what you are spouting.... without bonus money and dealing with the slotted money allowed thru the 10 rounds, a team will not blow thru their money. it is the bonus money that the team wants to use to entice a player to sign. the first 3-5 round picks are really important and how ever, what the team and their people agree on the strategy to use, that is up to them. the time of avoiding all of Sctott B clients in the early rounds are gone. and agree to take that BPA Edited September 10, 2015 by LDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 01:44 PM) you you really know what you are spouting.... without bonus money and dealing with the slotted money allowed thru the 10 rounds, a team will not blow thru their money. it is the bonus money that the team wants to use to entice a player to sign. the first 3-5 picks are really important and how ever, what the team and their people agree on the strategy to use, that is up to them. the time of avoiding all of Sctott B clients in the early rounds are gone. and agree to take that BPA This is not dealing in reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 07:40 PM) You can't take BPA in the baseball draft. It doesn't work that way. Here's a scenario for you: A stud HS player that is a top 25 talent in the draft is on the board in the 3rd rd when the Sox pick. He has said that he wants $5 million or he's going to college. It's well known that this player is headed to college instead of pro. Would you still take this player in the 3rd round because he's technically the best draftable player currently? and what will you do.... avoid this player.... yeah i would take him with the 3rd and roll the dice. but their are some stipulations that the org will need to think of .... internally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 07:45 PM) This is not dealing in reality. you asked me, now you answer why not. i am talking about the theory of the slotted draft, according to the CBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 01:48 PM) you asked me, now you answer why not. i am talking about the theory of the slotted draft, according to the CBA. because "without bonus money and dealing with the slotted money allowed thru the 10 rounds, a team will not blow thru their money." doesn't exist. Every team has a bonus pool based on the slot values of their relative picks. Their total number cannot go over a specific percentage over their pool before a team starts forfeiting draft picks. If a team were to pick with absolutely no regards to those picks, they would blow through their allotments way before all of their picks were signed. For example, take a look at the Sox picks this year. They went far over slot to sign Zangnari. Because of that, they had later picks which were significantly under the slot values to make their total fall under their allotted total. If they had kept picking the BPA, they would have spent WAY more than their allotment allowed them to do, and either couldn't have signed many picks to stay under the total, or they would have forfeiting future draft picks. This is reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) and what will you do.... avoid this player.... yeah i would take him with the 3rd and roll the dice. but their are some stipulations that the org will need to think of .... internally. Yes I would avoid this player because he's not going to sign and you are wasting your time. And you'd lose the right to spend the $$ that you would have used on him. This philosophy makes absolutely zero sense and no team in baseball would do what you are proposing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) and what will you do.... avoid this player.... yeah i would take him with the 3rd and roll the dice. but their are some stipulations that the org will need to think of .... internally. More examples: Let's pretend that the Sox have $9 million to spend on the draft. 1st round slot: 4.5 mil 2nd round slot: 1.8 mil 3rd round slot: 1 million 4th round: 740,000.00 and so on. If you took a player in the 3rd and he didn't sign, that's roughly $1 million that you now are not allowed to spend in this draft. It doesn't make sense. Teams have a specific amount of $$ now that they can spend on their top 10 selections. If they go over, penalties are severe. Every player drafted in rounds 11-40 has to be for $100,000 or less, otherwise the remainder goes into the pool for the top 10 selections. Edited September 10, 2015 by Y2JImmy0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 02:10 PM) More examples: Let's pretend that the Sox have $9 million to spend on the draft. 1st round slot: 4.5 mil 2nd round slot: 1.8 mil 3rd round slot: 1 million 4th round: 740,000.00 and so on. If you took a player in the 3rd and he didn't sign, that's roughly $1 million that you now are not allowed to spend in this draft. It doesn't make sense. Teams have a specific amount of $$ now that they can spend on their top 10 selections. If they go over, penalties are severe. Every player drafted in rounds 11-40 has to be for $100,000 or less, otherwise the remainder goes into the pool for the top 10 selections. The other way to look at this going strictly by BPA. 1st pick is BPA and takes 6 million to sign/4.5 slot 2nd pick is BPA and takes 3 million to sign/ 1.8 slot There you have used your entire draft allotment in your first two picks. You either cannot sign anyone else in rounds 3-10 or anyone over $100k in rounds 11+, OR you can sign them but once you get more than 15% over your slot value (in this case would put you to 1.35 million additional dollars) you would lose your first round draft pick for the next TWO years AND pay a 100% tax on everything over your $9 million allotment. Again, which are you choosing to go fully BPA... losing draft picks, or not signing most of your draft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 07:53 PM) because "without bonus money and dealing with the slotted money allowed thru the 10 rounds, a team will not blow thru their money." doesn't exist. Every team has a bonus pool based on the slot values of their relative picks. Their total number cannot go over a specific percentage over their pool before a team starts forfeiting draft picks. If a team were to pick with absolutely no regards to those picks, they would blow through their allotments way before all of their picks were signed. For example, take a look at the Sox picks this year. They went far over slot to sign Zangnari. Because of that, they had later picks which were significantly under the slot values to make their total fall under their allotted total. If they had kept picking the BPA, they would have spent WAY more than their allotment allowed them to do, and either couldn't have signed many picks to stay under the total, or they would have forfeiting future draft picks. This is reality. the slotted money with bonus money is now the discussion. this conversation is really taking a life of its own. i do not know the answers for the salary cap nor do i have the answers for the CBA..... if you do, tell me, per articles and numbered sentences .... instead of using a statement to make yourself look good. this show me kind of interrogations is a little tiring. if any of us have the answers, we should be working for the baseball org. . i still maintains, take the BPA available is the way to go.... if you say that is unreasonable..... and special agreements needs to agreed to ...... so what is the difference of now vs 10 yrs ago??? by the way, you are still not answering and diverting questions asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 08:10 PM) More examples: Let's pretend that the Sox have $9 million to spend on the draft. 1st round slot: 4.5 mil 2nd round slot: 1.8 mil 3rd round slot: 1 million 4th round: 740,000.00 and so on. If you took a player in the 3rd and he didn't sign, that's roughly $1 million that you now are not allowed to spend in this draft. It doesn't make sense. Teams have a specific amount of $$ now that they can spend on their top 10 selections. If they go over, penalties are severe. Every player drafted in rounds 11-40 has to be for $100,000 or less, otherwise the remainder goes into the pool for the top 10 selections. that is a good point.... again this is going to be done in the internal mtg with the players involve in making the selections of the picks. far beyond my pay grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 08:21 PM) The other way to look at this going strictly by BPA. 1st pick is BPA and takes 6 million to sign/4.5 slot 2nd pick is BPA and takes 3 million to sign/ 1.8 slot There you have used your entire draft allotment in your first two picks. You either cannot sign anyone else in rounds 3-10 or anyone over $100k in rounds 11+, OR you can sign them but once you get more than 15% over your slot value (in this case would put you to 1.35 million additional dollars) you would lose your first round draft pick for the next TWO years AND pay a 100% tax on everything over your $9 million allotment. Again, which are you choosing to go fully BPA... losing draft picks, or not signing most of your draft? players in the first round #1 pick and the players chosen on the #15 pick in the first round.... the money is different. you can not arbitrarily use a blanket statement as the answer for all question in the draft. plus i am not talking about bonus money. Edited September 10, 2015 by LDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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