Alexei

[kitekrazy]

I am not a stat guy so I don't even know what the numbers you posted mean with all due respect.

 

I'll simply say I've watched Ramirez for years and stand by my statement. I will also tell you for what it's worth, that one of the Sox broadcasters said privately he's (quote) "the dumbest shortstop in baseball..."

I'll take their word and what I've seen with my own eyes over numbers that can be made to say anything you want them to. (Not saying you personally have twisted anything but as someone who worked in TV sports I know how ratings are twisted to mean anything a particular individual or station wants them to.)

 

The sooner Ramirez goes, the better in my opinion.

 

Mark

 

Oh no, that one is on the other side of town.

 

[Quin]

Since coming into baseball in 2008, Alexei has been the 8th best shortstop in baseball.

[AlSoxfan]

I'd pick up the option, but I'd be comfortable with letting him play himself into a bench role if Saladino happens to improve. But, that's a very "armchair GM" thing to say -- clearly MLB managers aren't as quick to bench the veteran.

 

I told you guys he looked like a positive regression candidate, and he was, but that doesn't mean he isn't getting older. He'll probably lose another step next year, but he's still a better hitter than Saladino/Sanchez. I just don't think that $10m can be spent elsewhere in a way that realistically helps the team more. If Hahn is planning on going balls out for Weiters or something and knows he's going to need every penny, then sure, that's a different story.

For me this makes perfect sense.

[southsider2k5]

Oh no, that one is on the other side of town.

 

Yeah, that one combines dumb with lazy. Alexei plays hard, but has no baseball IQ. Given the choice, give me the hard playing dummy.

[Whisox05]

The issue is it took till the all-star break and beyond for alexei to start producing offensively. With how bad this teams has been offensively this year alexei has been part of the issue. Waiting for him to finally produce till after the all star break is a huge issue. I really hope the sox don't pick up his option. If they want to decline it and give him a cheaper 1 yr deal ok but pay 10 million for a player declining and maybe he eventually produces ar some point of the year with the sox in huge need of offense is a big issue.

[GreenSox]

Saladino should get at-bats every day. Can't think of a reason not to give them to him. Alexiei will finish with an OPS below .700. The sox know what He can do. He can DH some and sit more. They can pick up the option. While a severe overpay, 9 million is a bargain compared to what they are getting out of Laroche or Melky (whom the Don Ventura refuses to sit). Alexei can also play outfield so that gives him some versatility.

Edited September 9, 2015 by GreenSox

[cabiness42]

I am not a stat guy so I don't even know what the numbers you posted mean with all due respect.

 

Mark

 

If you want to have intelligent conversations about players with anybody, you might want to brush up on some stats that everybody has been using for over a decade now.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I am not a stat guy so I don't even know what the numbers you posted mean with all due respect.

 

I'll simply say I've watched Ramirez for years and stand by my statement. I will also tell you for what it's worth, that one of the Sox broadcasters said privately he's (quote) "the dumbest shortstop in baseball..."

 

I'll take their word and what I've seen with my own eyes over numbers that can be made to say anything you want them to. (Not saying you personally have twisted anything but as someone who worked in TV sports I know how ratings are twisted to mean anything a particular individual or station wants them to.)

 

The sooner Ramirez goes, the better in my opinion.

 

Mark

 

Stats don't lie, it's your eyes that twist things and make you see what you want to see. The stats say Alexei has been one of the better shortstops in baseball since 2009. I think I'll trust the stats a little more than basing my opinion off an offhand comment by one of our broadcasters.

[Kyyle23]

Oh no, that one is on the other side of town.

 

They already remedied that problem

[oldsox]

$10 MM is too much for Alexi in 2016. He says he wants to stay; offer him 3-4 large, see what happens. If he is not interested, look elsewhere, including Saladino for 1 year.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I don't think some of you realize how little $10 million is in today's game. That is the going rate for roughly 1.5 fWAR. A below average player. Alexei will finish shy of that this year but I would say the odds are decent enough that he will return to at least that number next year that I would be willing to pick up the option especially since there are really no better options out there. Pick up the option and then in 2017 Anderson should be ready and we move on.

[Hatchetman]

23rd out of 24 in WAR. only guy worse is Castro.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...=&players=0

 

 

[SoxAce]

Fool's gold. Hero worshipping...Frankly, I would not exercise the option but try to sign him to a lower figure. If someone wants to pay him $10 million or $9 million, thanks Alexei, despite some of your boneheadedness, you have been a really good player but it's time to move along.

Agreed 100% although you and I have agreed about Alexei for quite some time now. (the offseason on..)

[Y2Jimmy0]

I'd pick up Alexei's option. He could easily out produce that number and they don't have anyone to play there instead of him. Hopefully, he has a decent year and they can move him. Not picking it up and going with a utility player (Saladino) doesn't really make sense to me though.

[shysocks]

I don't think some of you realize how little $10 million is in today's game. That is the going rate for roughly 1.5 fWAR. A below average player. Alexei will finish shy of that this year but I would say the odds are decent enough that he will return to at least that number next year that I would be willing to pick up the option especially since there are really no better options out there. Pick up the option and then in 2017 Anderson should be ready and we move on.

I know that $10M isn't that much, but we differ on the bolded and that's why I'd buy out the option.

 

Just because it's not enough money to sign a difference maker doesn't mean it we should spend it unwisely. It can be saved. It can be used to reinforce the bid on a bigger free agent.

[LittleHurt05]

Fool's gold. Hero worshipping...Frankly, I would not exercise the option but try to sign him to a lower figure. If someone wants to pay him $10 million or $9 million, thanks Alexei, despite some of your boneheadedness, you have been a really good player but it's time to move along.

 

Add me to the list for this plan. He was very solid for multiple years, I'll look at his Sox career positively, but it might be time to move on.

[Lip Man 1]

Stats don't lie, it's your eyes that twist things and make you see what you want to see. The stats say Alexei has been one of the better shortstops in baseball since 2009. I think I'll trust the stats a little more than basing my opinion off an offhand comment by one of our broadcasters.

 

Stats don't lie but people do and as stated can twist them into whatever they choose to make of them.

 

To me baseball is more than a game of numbers and all you have to do is look at the boneheaded plays Ramirez has made over the years (including his 360 spin this year in Toronto which was very humorous) to see he checks out of games on a regular basis, can't hit in cold weather and always seems to have some sort of issue impacting his performance.

 

Again with respect, I've seen enough of him and it's time to move on.

 

Speaking of stats, here's one for you. Last I looked Ramirez was next to last in WAR among all qualifying shortstops in MLB, 25th out of 26.

 

Baseball is more than offense, there's defense, base running and simply knowing the game. Ramirez has had some very nice offensive seasons. Those are counterbalanced by his "baseball - stupidness" The Sox have had a lot of those guys to be sure but Alexei may be the poster boy for that. Which is why I say his career has been a disappointment. He showed so much in 2008. Oh well.

 

Mark

Edited September 9, 2015 by Lip Man 1

[OmarComing25]

Stats don't lie but people do and as stated can twist them into whatever they choose to make of them.

 

To me baseball is more than a game of numbers and all you have to do is look at the boneheaded plays Ramirez has made over the years (including his 360 spin this year in Toronto which was very humorous) to see he checks out of games on a regular basis, can't hit in cold weather and always seems to have some sort of issue impacting his performance.

 

Again with respect, I've seen enough of him and it's time to move on.

 

Mark

He's been bad this year but you're implying he's been bad his whole tenure here, which I don't understand. Yeah he makes the occasional boneheaded play, but he also makes a lot of great plays (again, not as much this season, but he's overall been great with the glove). If you look around baseball, it's full of very light-hitting shortstops, so by that measure his bat since 2008 has been just fine for the position. I think it's time to move on as well but you're really selling Alexei short here if you think his time with the White Sox has been a disappointment. There have been very few AL shortstops who were better in that time span (really only Andrus and Aybar and maybe Peralta have a claim to be better).

Edited September 9, 2015 by OmarComing25

[he gone.]

If we are looking at his $10mm as too much then we have a whole other set of problems for this team going forward. Realistically, let's say we go with another option, say Freese or Uribe.

We buy out Alexei for $1mm. Sign either of those guys for 2yr, $12-14mm contracts. Is having two years committed to either of those players AND at $7mm each + $1mm buyout (so $8mm next year) really worth it compared to keeping Alexei for a 1 year obligation at $10mm??

 

I also don't like this argument of "look at his first half stats he's declining" -- so he was so old that he was declining for the first 80 games, but the second half, after playing everyday all of a sudden he's fresh and playing well, but it should be discounted? Look at the season as a whole. Each of 162 games count just as much. Is he too much of a streaky player at times? Yes. But each game counts for the same. I don't think anybody here would be surprised if he finishes with a .265 BA. and very similar stats to his career. Just a tick below. If we are going with the his first half stats argument then we have to do the same for the whole Sox team. Eaton, Melky, etc.

 

In terms of WAR or OPS, blah blah blah. His range is declining, his arm is still strong, he may make boneheaded plays at times ... but that is why 3rd base is perfect for him IMO. Again, the argument will be his WAR at SS compared to 3B, blah blah blah. Sorry, I don't play/armchair GM on an Excel spreadsheet. I am going by the eye test from what I see watching 140+ games a year and against what is realistically available in the FA market. I will take .270, a dozen homers, 65RBI, 35 doubles, and 25 SB, a good arm, and reliable health from my 3B for a 1 year, $10mm commitment over what is out there any day.

 

[LDF]

Stats don't lie but people do and as stated can twist them into whatever they choose to make of them.

 

To me baseball is more than a game of numbers and all you have to do is look at the boneheaded plays Ramirez has made over the years (including his 360 spin this year in Toronto which was very humorous) to see he checks out of games on a regular basis, can't hit in cold weather and always seems to have some sort of issue impacting his performance.

 

Again with respect, I've seen enough of him and it's time to move on.

 

Speaking of stats, here's one for you. Last I looked Ramirez was next to last in WAR among all qualifying shortstops in MLB, 25th out of 26.

 

Baseball is more than offense, there's defense, base running and simply knowing the game. Ramirez has had some very nice offensive seasons. Those are counterbalanced by his "baseball - stupidness" The Sox have had a lot of those guys to be sure but Alexei may be the poster boy for that. Which is why I say his career has been a disappointment. He showed so much in 2008. Oh well.

 

Mark

 

i like Alexei and i think if some thing he does not like or happens, it really affects him, and affects his performance.... he can't shake those things off as other players.

 

now i am a fan of his and maybe i am blind, but i don't think so.

 

he will be a nice option to pick up. he only has 1 more yr to his contract and Anderson should be up. unlike another player, the sox will have to deal with the length of the contract.

[LDF]

If we are looking at his $10mm as too much then we have a whole other set of problems for this team going forward. Realistically, let's say we go with another option, say Freese or Uribe.

We buy out Alexei for $1mm. Sign either of those guys for 2yr, $12-14mm contracts. Is having two years committed to either of those players AND at $7mm each + $1mm buyout (so $8mm next year) really worth it compared to keeping Alexei for a 1 year obligation at $10mm??

 

I also don't like this argument of "look at his first half stats he's declining" -- so he was so old that he was declining for the first 80 games, but the second half, after playing everyday all of a sudden he's fresh and playing well, but it should be discounted? Look at the season as a whole. Each of 162 games count just as much. Is he too much of a streaky player at times? Yes. But each game counts for the same. I don't think anybody here would be surprised if he finishes with a .265 BA. and very similar stats to his career. Just a tick below. If we are going with the his first half stats argument then we have to do the same for the whole Sox team. Eaton, Melky, etc.

 

In terms of WAR or OPS, blah blah blah. His range is declining, his arm is still strong, he may make boneheaded plays at times ... but that is why 3rd base is perfect for him IMO. Again, the argument will be his WAR at SS compared to 3B, blah blah blah. Sorry, I don't play/armchair GM on an Excel spreadsheet. I am going by the eye test from what I see watching 140+ games a year and against what is realistically available in the FA market. I will take .270, a dozen homers, 65RBI, 35 doubles, and 25 SB, a good arm, and reliable health from my 3B for a 1 year, $10mm commitment over what is out there any day.

 

nice post, now if anyone remembers, during the ASG break, RV, Hahn and some other had a mtg with Alexei to iron something out. after that, he started to perform .....

 

[Lip Man 1]

Quick bottom line take on Ramirez.

 

If you think the Sox will contend next year, maybe you sign him and hope for the best.

 

If not, you don't. Why sign him and take away playing time for youngsters in order to win 75 games?

 

Personally, I don't think Kenny is going anywhere. Robin isn't going anywhere. This team has gaping holes to fill at catcher, third base, DH and they are going to need another starting pitcher (Shark is gone). They are going to have to do this with less money since a lot of folks who bought season tickets this off season aren't coming back.

 

JR is also still going to be "heavily involved" (Hahn's words from yesterday) is trying to fix this as well.

 

I don't think the Sox are going to contend next season either...so why waste money on Ramirez?

 

Mark

[shysocks]

If we are looking at his $10mm as too much then we have a whole other set of problems for this team going forward. Realistically, let's say we go with another option, say Freese or Uribe.

We buy out Alexei for $1mm. Sign either of those guys for 2yr, $12-14mm contracts. Is having two years committed to either of those players AND at $7mm each + $1mm buyout (so $8mm next year) really worth it compared to keeping Alexei for a 1 year obligation at $10mm??

 

I also don't like this argument of "look at his first half stats he's declining" -- so he was so old that he was declining for the first 80 games, but the second half, after playing everyday all of a sudden he's fresh and playing well, but it should be discounted? Look at the season as a whole. Each of 162 games count just as much. Is he too much of a streaky player at times? Yes. But each game counts for the same. I don't think anybody here would be surprised if he finishes with a .265 BA. and very similar stats to his career. Just a tick below. If we are going with the his first half stats argument then we have to do the same for the whole Sox team. Eaton, Melky, etc.

 

In terms of WAR or OPS, blah blah blah. His range is declining, his arm is still strong, he may make boneheaded plays at times ... but that is why 3rd base is perfect for him IMO. Again, the argument will be his WAR at SS compared to 3B, blah blah blah. Sorry, I don't play/armchair GM on an Excel spreadsheet. I am going by the eye test from what I see watching 140+ games a year and against what is realistically available in the FA market. I will take .270, a dozen homers, 65RBI, 35 doubles, and 25 SB, a good arm, and reliable health from my 3B for a 1 year, $10mm commitment over what is out there any day.

That doesn't even mean anything. The argument is that he's not a good enough hitter to play third base. He is an okay hitter for a shortstop; he is a bad hitter for a third baseman. No spreadsheet necessary, it isn't that complicated.

[ron883]

Why do some people continue to discredit statistics? It is simple a compilation of the results players have had. That's it. You can't remember every play, but you can compile the outcome of every play to get a better understanding of the players ability.

 

Get with the times gramps. We aren't basing our opinions off of what we saw through our monocles on the black and white TV anymore. There's a reason all teams use advanced analyticals now a days

Edited September 9, 2015 by ron883

[Y2Jimmy0]

Quick bottom line take on Ramirez.

 

If you think the Sox will contend next year, maybe you sign him and hope for the best.

 

If not, you don't. Why sign him and take away playing time for youngsters in order to win 75 games?

 

Personally, I don't think Kenny is going anywhere. Robin isn't going anywhere. This team has gaping holes to fill at catcher, third base, DH and they are going to need another starting pitcher (Shark is gone). They are going to have to do this with less money since a lot of folks who bought season tickets this off season aren't coming back.

 

JR is also still going to be "heavily involved" (Hahn's words from yesterday) is trying to fix this as well.

 

I don't think the Sox are going to contend next season either...so why waste money on Ramirez?

 

Mark

 

 

Because they think they are.