My/Your Off Season Plan

[LDF]

 

i kinda of like Ben Zobrist, he is will be limited b/c of his age. 1yr with an performance option or 2 yrs. but can he play 3b??? also there is that AL stats.

 

Daniel Murphy, can be a 3b, ss, and or play of.

 

it all depends on the salary and yrs of the contract.

 

 

 

[LDF]

I'd take Zobrist for the short-term. I'd see if there's a way to acquire Alex Guerrero from the Dodgers.

 

ref to Guerrero, i don't know. his hitting stats is not too encouraging. his salary is too much for an unknown.

 

but the other thing is a trade is and will be needed to get that catcher, b/c there is no help in the fa market. so can AG be used a throw in.

[Dick Allen]

and his wRC+ is 99 and Flowers' is 71. Can we just stop using batting average? Soto takes walks and hits for power. Those are useful qualities and it's reflected in the slash lines and wRC+.

Soto isn't an every day catcher. He is fine as a back up.

[LDF]

 

you know, thinking of this all morning, i just came to one important part.

 

the sox owner's will need to pony up and spend and invest in money to minimize the impact of this season, but announcing they will be buyers in the fa. it doesn't mean that they will get players like heyward or players like that, but to get players who can fix the pieces.

 

then maybe just maybe the sox can improve on the increase fans buying tickets from last yr to get more increases. build on the little positive while acknowledging that this season didn't pan out as hope.

 

use aggressive language of "the fo office had to huddle up all the personnel and dictated the orders to improve the team or their career working for he sox will come to end."

 

put that to the press and hopefully the owners will mean it.

[Balta1701]

you know, thinking of this all morning, i just came to one important part.

 

the sox owner's will need to pony up and spend and invest in money to minimize the impact of this season, but announcing they will be buyers in the fa. it doesn't mean that they will get players like heyward or players like that, but to get players who can fix the pieces.

 

then maybe just maybe the sox can improve on the increase fans buying tickets from last yr to get more increases. build on the little positive while acknowledging that this season didn't pan out as hope.

 

use aggressive language of "the fo office had to huddle up all the personnel and dictated the orders to improve the team or their career working for he sox will come to end."

 

put that to the press and hopefully the owners will mean it.

This is exactly what failed to work last offseason.

[LDF]

This is exactly what failed to work last offseason.

 

you make a compelling counter, but i really don't agree. there were too many holes and poor judgement from the FO. wrong direction on how they went about to work fix with too much hope in doing minimum repairs and expecting a lot.

 

last off season, this team, mostly the fans brought into the bulls*** that came from the FO.

[Balta1701]

you make a compelling counter, but i really don't agree. there were too many holes and poor judgement from the FO. wrong direction on how they went about to work fix with too much hope in doing minimum repairs and expecting a lot.

 

last off season, this team, mostly the fans brought into the bulls*** that came from the FO.

And there remain "too many holes", and now there is less money to fill those holes.

[LDF]

And there remain "too many holes", and now there is less money to fill those holes.

 

and this will go back to what i still maintain, no matter what you dug up. the sox does have the money.

 

the owner treat us like a freaking dog. give a little pat and we the fans will be happy.

 

they are still now more holes but the FO has to acknowledge that their has to be an aggressive approach this offseason.

 

no matter how much more will be needed ..... to find doable pieces.

[Balta1701]

and this will go back to what i still maintain, no matter what you dug up. the sox does have the money.

 

the owner treat us like a freaking dog. give a little pat and we the fans will be happy.

 

they are still now more holes but the FO has to acknowledge that their has to be an aggressive approach this offseason.

 

no matter how much more will be needed ..... to find doable pieces.

I continue to expect that they'll do what you think, try to be "aggressive" and "win now", and you'll be equally disappointed by the results because that type of plan is extremely high risk, much higher risk than even the organization wants to admit, as we've seen this year.

 

I continue to think "Being aggressive" is exactly the wrong approach with where this organization is. We were way too aggressive last year and it led directly to this season. Being aggressive was a major part of what went wrong. When you're close to a competitive team, being aggressive can make sense. When your organization is this weak, and you try to be aggressive, good chance you hurt yourself for the following seasons.

[LDF]

I continue to expect that they'll do what you think, try to be "aggressive" and "win now", and you'll be equally disappointed by the results because that type of plan is extremely high risk, much higher risk than even the organization wants to admit, as we've seen this year.

 

I continue to think "Being aggressive" is exactly the wrong approach with where this organization is. We were way too aggressive last year and it led directly to this season. Being aggressive was a major part of what went wrong. When you're close to a competitive team, being aggressive can make sense. When your organization is this weak, and you try to be aggressive, good chance you hurt yourself for the following seasons.

 

excellent and i can't find a good counter.

 

am i saying that i am stupid and can't think. all i am saying that this is obvious a difference of philosophy of addressing this a plan to get better.

 

i guess the only part that we are in agreement is, this present FO personnel is not capable of getting this team there.

 

~~~ edit - i guess it is my personality of always being aggressive. so all i know is to be aggressive.

Edited September 24, 2015 by LDF

[Bob Sacamano]

What about Christian Villanueva? He's a Cubs 3B prospect that no none talks about anymore but is having a solid season with 20 homers, ~.750 ops. Probably wouldn't cost anything relevant or maybe he is Rule 5 eligible this off-season and we can snag him that way (if he's not already on the 40-man roster).

Edited September 25, 2015 by soxfan2014

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

What about Christian Villanueva? He's a Cubs 3B prospect that no none talks about anymore but is having a solid season with 20 homers, ~.750 ops. Probably wouldn't cost anything relevant or maybe he is Rule 5 eligible this off-season and we can snag him that way (if he's not already on the 40-man roster).

I'd trade Beck or another fringy pitching prospect for him.

 

They need pitching, the Sox need hitting. It would help both sides.

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd trade Beck or another fringy pitching prospect for him.

 

They need pitching, the Sox need hitting. It would help both sides.

 

Yeah these are the kinds of moves the Sox will probably aim to make this off-season. Not trading away our good players on the MLB roster, holding onto the few good prospects we have and not spending in free agency.

[LDF]

Yeah these are the kinds of moves the Sox will probably aim to make this off-season. Not trading away our good players on the MLB roster, holding onto the few good prospects we have and not spending in free agency.

 

i would think that most of everyone will be available is order to get good prospects to improve this team.

 

as i am really hoping for the sox to dive into the FA pool and deep for missing pieces to help out this team.

 

but i don't know if that will happen.

Edited September 25, 2015 by LDF

[Sox Fan In Husker Land]

QO to Samardizja. He turns it down, we get a top 40 pick along with a top 10 pick

Bring back Alexei for a year until Anderson is ready.

Try to resign Soto and split with Flowers at Catcher because we have other major issues to address.

Somehow acquire Todd Frazier for 3B, if the NL to AL curse of hitting pops in at least you have good D at 3rd and a deadline piece at a key position if we suck. Trade Micah Johnson, Avi Garcia, Tyler Danish, and another throw in if necessary for Frazier. Try to keep Anderson, Fulmer, Montas, Adams, Michalczewski out of any deals.

Sign Jason Heyward to 8 year $180 million deal, with player option after 3 years. 1st 3 years worth 3 years $80 million. $ for Heyward is there if we can offer Samardzija the deal we did. We also lose Danks & LaRoche following the 2016 season. And Melky after the 2017 season. It is doable.

 

I know it's a pipe dream, but it vastly improves 2 of our major holes in 3B and RF all without giving up too much. It also upgrades our defense in the OF drastically. It also keeps our young, cheap controlled rotation together. Adam LaRoche is just a wasted space as a 1B/DH against RHP and a pinch hitter in the latter part of games until the end of the year.

 

Vs. RHP

CF Eaton L

DH Abreu R

RF Heyward L

3B Frazier R

LF Cabrera S

1B LaRoche L

SS Ramirez R

C Flowers/Soto R

2B Sanchez S

 

Bench

OF Thompson R

UTIL Saladino R

OF Shuck L

C Flowers/Soto R

 

Vs. LHP

LF Eaton L

1B Abreu R

RF Heyward L

3B Frazier R

DH Cabrera S

CF Thompson R

SS Ramirez R

C Flowers/Soto R

2B Sanchez S

 

Bench

1B/DH LaRoche L

UTIL Saladino R

OF Shuck L

C Flowers/Soto R

 

Pitching Staff

 

Starters

Sale LHP

Quintana LHP

Rodon LHP

Johnson RHP

Danks LHP

 

Bullpen

Robertson R CL

Jones R SU

Petricka R

Putnam R

Webb R

Duke L

Jennings L

 

You would have Tim Anderson, Carson Fulmer, and Frankie Montas waiting in the wings to provide a boost to the line up or rotation/bullpen if need be by mid season.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Sox Fan In Husker Land

[spiderman]

It's possible that the White Sox could bring back almost their entire pitching staff.

 

- I would offer the QO offer to Shark. I don't expect him to accept it, but I'm willing to gamble, on a 1 year deal, for that draft pick. The White Sox need young talent, and they can't afford to potentially get a high draft pick. Given that his market is still strong, I would be pretty shocked if he accepted the QO offer. Even if he did, it's a 1 year deal.

 

- Re-sign Matt Albers, but it would have to be a 1 year deal. He has done a great job this season, but there is a lot of arms, including Nate Jones returning. Albers was the best of the group after he came back, but I don't want to give middle relievers multi-year deals. Duke and Robertson already have deals, I think they need to be flexible here.

 

- If the first two items below happen, the pitching staff would largely return next season. The starting rotation would likely include Erik Johnson as the 5th starter. Carlos Rodon showed high end potential so the team has to feel pretty strongly about him, which could open the door to a Quintana trade if they believe that Rodon and Sale can anchor the rotation.

 

The pitching staff has to be the strength of this team next season, and I would expect a quiet(er) off-season since that shouldn't change much unless they decide to really shake things up with a Quintana trade. If not, I think they have to get internal improvement offensively.

 

1) Melky Cabrera needs to have a strong rebound season. He can't wait until June or July to start hitting.

2) Tryce Thompson, playing most days, can improve the team defensively and has shown he can hit. He still is a question mark in that he hasn't done it over a full season, but I think he needs he enters spring training as a starter.

3) Can Carlos Sanchez hit consistently in the majors? He's showing signs and plays good defense. Up the middle, with Thompson (potentially) and Sanchez, the White Sox are better than they have been in a few years out there.

4) Being open to alternative options. M.Johnson can hit (or it seems as if he can hit). If he can and doesn't have a position, here's a DH for you. Give the White Sox a speed option to create offense. They don't have enough of that (sorry Eaton).

 

- Offensively, I do not support signing Ben Zobrist or any other higher end free agents. I would resign Soto for starters, but I realize that the catcher spot will not be a strength and this is a continuation of the Tyler Flowers era.

 

- I would decline the option on A.Ramirez, but would explore re-signing him to a 1 year deal. I don't believe they have another SS (Tim Anderson, not being ready) who can step in next season. If Ramirez leaves, I would then go Saladino as the fall back option, knowing that they are probably worse at SS next season. I don't believe he is more than a fringe MLB player.

 

- If T.Thompson is the best defensive player they have, and his best position is CF, that's where he enters spring training. He still has to earn a job though. If he does do that in spring training, he's the starting CF and Adam Eaton slides over to a corner spot.

 

- Micah Johnson enters spring training with a chance to make the team and play 4-5 days a week as DH. Adam La Roche could change these plans, but he's got to earn his way back into playing time as a DH. He'll clearly play 2-3 times a week at DH, and maybe 1 time a week a 1B so he'll be out there occasionally.

 

- 3B: No options exist outside of Saladino, and I wouldn't overspend in free agency. If there's a stop-gap option who can provide decent production, that's about as much as I can see them doing.

[Jose Abreu]

QO to Samardizja. He turns it down, we get a top 40 pick along with a top 10 pick

Bring back Alexei for a year until Anderson is ready.

Try to resign Soto and split with Flowers at Catcher because we have other major issues to address.

Somehow acquire Todd Frazier for 3B, if the NL to AL curse of hitting pops in at least you have good D at 3rd and a deadline piece at a key position if we suck. Trade Micah Johnson, Avi Garcia, Tyler Danish, and another throw in if necessary for Frazier. Try to keep Anderson, Fulmer, Montas, Adams, Michalczewski out of any deals.

Sign Jason Heyward to 8 year $180 million deal, with player option after 3 years. 1st 3 years worth 3 years $80 million. $ for Heyward is there if we can offer Samardzija the deal we did. We also lose Danks & LaRoche following the 2016 season. And Melky after the 2017 season. It is doable.

 

I know it's a pipe dream, but it vastly improves 2 of our major holes in 3B and RF all without giving up too much. It also upgrades our defense in the OF drastically. It also keeps our young, cheap controlled rotation together. Adam LaRoche is just a wasted space as a 1B/DH against RHP and a pinch hitter in the latter part of games until the end of the year.

 

Vs. RHP

CF Eaton L

DH Abreu R

RF Heyward L

3B Frazier R

LF Cabrera S

1B LaRoche L

SS Ramirez R

C Flowers/Soto R

2B Sanchez S

 

Bench

OF Thompson R

UTIL Saladino R

OF Shuck L

C Flowers/Soto R

 

Vs. LHP

LF Eaton L

1B Abreu R

RF Heyward L

3B Frazier R

DH Cabrera S

CF Thompson R

SS Ramirez R

C Flowers/Soto R

2B Sanchez S

 

Bench

1B/DH LaRoche L

UTIL Saladino R

OF Shuck L

C Flowers/Soto R

 

Pitching Staff

 

Starters

Sale LHP

Quintana LHP

Rodon LHP

Johnson RHP

Danks LHP

 

Bullpen

Robertson R CL

Jones R SU

Petricka R

Putnam R

Webb R

Duke L

Jennings L

 

You would have Tim Anderson, Carson Fulmer, and Frankie Montas waiting in the wings to provide a boost to the line up or rotation/bullpen if need be by mid season.

Cincy would never give up Frazier for your offer. We'd have to include much better players than Avi/Micah/Danish.

[LDF]

I continue to expect that they'll do what you think, try to be "aggressive" and "win now", and you'll be equally disappointed by the results because that type of plan is extremely high risk, much higher risk than even the organization wants to admit, as we've seen this year.

 

I continue to think "Being aggressive" is exactly the wrong approach with where this organization is. We were way too aggressive last year and it led directly to this season. Being aggressive was a major part of what went wrong. When you're close to a competitive team, being aggressive can make sense. When your organization is this weak, and you try to be aggressive, good chance you hurt yourself for the following seasons.

 

as i said yesterday, this is a good counter.

 

but i came up with something. while what you said is true in most cases. however the sox didn't spend what was needed to do and uses assets to make it work.

 

they will need to, if the owners can allow it, go in the negative profits. not a lot but a little for the getting the big trophy. i still think they can go to at least 160 mil payroll.

 

the following yr, Danks - 15.7 mil and Adam LaRoche - 13.0 mil total of 28.7 mil in their contract will come off the book

 

it can be done.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Southsider brought up Matt Wieters and I scoffed at the suggestion because of the QO. Rumors out of Baltimore, according to Heyman are that he may not receive one. If he doesn't get a QO, the White Sox should be all over Wieters. Could be an interesting option.

[LDF]

It's possible that the White Sox could bring back almost their entire pitching staff.

 

- I would offer the QO offer to Shark. I don't expect him to accept it, but I'm willing to gamble, on a 1 year deal, for that draft pick. The White Sox need young talent, and they can't afford to potentially get a high draft pick. Given that his market is still strong, I would be pretty shocked if he accepted the QO offer. Even if he did, it's a 1 year deal.

 

- Re-sign Matt Albers, but it would have to be a 1 year deal. He has done a great job this season, but there is a lot of arms, including Nate Jones returning. Albers was the best of the group after he came back, but I don't want to give middle relievers multi-year deals. Duke and Robertson already have deals, I think they need to be flexible here.

 

- If the first two items below happen, the pitching staff would largely return next season. The starting rotation would likely include Erik Johnson as the 5th starter. Carlos Rodon showed high end potential so the team has to feel pretty strongly about him, which could open the door to a Quintana trade if they believe that Rodon and Sale can anchor the rotation.

 

The pitching staff has to be the strength of this team next season, and I would expect a quiet(er) off-season since that shouldn't change much unless they decide to really shake things up with a Quintana trade. If not, I think they have to get internal improvement offensively.

 

1) Melky Cabrera needs to have a strong rebound season. He can't wait until June or July to start hitting.

2) Tryce Thompson, playing most days, can improve the team defensively and has shown he can hit. He still is a question mark in that he hasn't done it over a full season, but I think he needs he enters spring training as a starter.

3) Can Carlos Sanchez hit consistently in the majors? He's showing signs and plays good defense. Up the middle, with Thompson (potentially) and Sanchez, the White Sox are better than they have been in a few years out there.

4) Being open to alternative options. M.Johnson can hit (or it seems as if he can hit). If he can and doesn't have a position, here's a DH for you. Give the White Sox a speed option to create offense. They don't have enough of that (sorry Eaton).

 

- Offensively, I do not support signing Ben Zobrist or any other higher end free agents. I would resign Soto for starters, but I realize that the catcher spot will not be a strength and this is a continuation of the Tyler Flowers era.

 

- I would decline the option on A.Ramirez, but would explore re-signing him to a 1 year deal. I don't believe they have another SS (Tim Anderson, not being ready) who can step in next season. If Ramirez leaves, I would then go Saladino as the fall back option, knowing that they are probably worse at SS next season. I don't believe he is more than a fringe MLB player.

 

- If T.Thompson is the best defensive player they have, and his best position is CF, that's where he enters spring training. He still has to earn a job though. If he does do that in spring training, he's the starting CF and Adam Eaton slides over to a corner spot.

 

- Micah Johnson enters spring training with a chance to make the team and play 4-5 days a week as DH. Adam La Roche could change these plans, but he's got to earn his way back into playing time as a DH. He'll clearly play 2-3 times a week at DH, and maybe 1 time a week a 1B so he'll be out there occasionally.

 

- 3B: No options exist outside of Saladino, and I wouldn't overspend in free agency. If there's a stop-gap option who can provide decent production, that's about as much as I can see them doing.

 

you make a good argument. however Ben Zobrist can be that player who can help in several ways. however as you said, we don't know what he will command in the FA.

 

this is one person no one is thinking about..... Jacob May. granted he will be 24 and had only 1 yr in AA. i hope the sox keep him in AA for another full yr.

 

[LDF]

Southsider brought up Matt Wieters and I scoffed at the suggestion because of the QO. Rumors out of Baltimore, according to Heyman are that he may not receive one. If he doesn't get a QO, the White Sox should be all over Wieters. Could be an interesting option.

 

was really against this option for 2 reason. i am still questioning his ability to perform as he has in the past and his agent will want a 5 yr contract at least.

[Bob Sacamano]

was really against this option for 2 reason. i am still questioning his ability to perform as he has in the past and his agent will want a 5 yr contract at least.

 

Sox were in on a McCann a few years ago. Granted he has a better track record than Wieters, but I can see them being in on him too if there is no QO attached to his name.

[LDF]

Sox were in on a McCann a few years ago. Granted he has a better track record than Wieters, but I can see them being in on him too if there is no QO attached to his name.

 

i really do understand that, but if this season is a result of his now playing stats.... and with his agent. i really don't want to see the sox be laiden contract that they will not can move.

 

no thanks

[Bob Sacamano]

i really do understand that, but if this season is a result of his now playing stats.... and with his agent. i really don't want to see the sox be laiden contract that they will not can move.

 

no thanks

 

If it wasn't for Boras I'd think there was a chance he'd take a one-year deal somewhere to rebuild value but like I said Boras is his agent.

[LDF]

If it wasn't for Boras I'd think there was a chance he'd take a one-year deal somewhere to rebuild value but like I said Boras is his agent.

 

no offense but i know that.

 

that is why i don't trust them accepting any deal other than max deal.