My/Your Off Season Plan

[GGajewski18]

Who isn't getting older? How does he do it?

 

I edited it lol

[fathom]

I think Ian Desmond is someone the Sox look at. He can play SS next year, and if Anderson is good enough, move him to 3B. His contract could be a little depressed by his awful start this season.

 

Us Sox fans would hate Desmond. Lots of inexcusable errors and lots of terrible at bats. Unless he comes way cheaper than most would imagine, I'd rather stick with Alexei for one more year.

[Balta1701]

He's getting older, and his core of Sale, Quintana, Abreu and Eaton aren't getting any younger.

Couldn't resist this one.

 

The White Sox have 1 player in the top 30 in MLB in fWAR, 2 players in the top 60, 3 players in the top 90, and 4 players in the top 120 assuming Samardzija departs.

 

That's some unbelievable core. You'd never guess that a team could have players that good in their core just by chance. Clearly that's something that we have to take advantage of while we have it.

[VAfan]

I'm sure he will, but he's got a lot of power for a SS, and IMO has enough offense to play 3B. A 2nd rounder isn't a big deal especially since they most likely with have the supplemental.

 

 

They probably won't sign him, but I do think he is a guy they probably look at pretty closely.

 

But Desmond's defense is attrocious, and his OBP is sub .300. Sox CANNOT keep spending money on free agents who make so many outs.

[VAfan]

Heyward literally helps this team in the categories that the Sox are weak on as you mentioned above. He makes the most sense this offseason, it's just a matter if JR is willing to open the checkbook a little more and get Heyward signed, along with eating LaRoche's last year or moving him to the "veteran bench role" type of player.

 

Heyward is a pipe dream, and wouldn't make the difference you all imagine, because so much of his value is tied up in his defense.

 

Now, certainly he's a vastly better fielder than Avi Garcia, so you would get Heyward's value as a replacement there. But what if the Sox played Trayce Thompson in RF next year. How much better of a fielder is Heyward than Thompson? I'll bet it's not dramatic.

 

If the Sox are going to spend a ton of money on someone, they need a power and OBP bat. They need Josh Donaldson, who is 6th in OPS. Heyward is 47th. That's not going to make nearly enough of a difference, and the cost will be ridiculous.

 

 

[VAfan]

For all you Heyward guys, I thought this juxtaposition was fascinating. It's the ranking by OPS for major leaguers.

 

47 Jason Heyward STL 547 79 160 33 4 13 60 23 3 56 90 .293 .359 .439 .797 6.5

48 Charlie Blackmon COL 614 93 176 31 9 17 58 43 13 46 112 .287 .347 .450 .797 2.3

49 Adam Eaton CHW 610 98 175 28 9 14 56 18 8 58 131 .287 .361 .431 .792 3.9

 

Adam Eaton is basically the equivalent to Heyward at the plate.

[GGajewski18]

Couldn't resist this one.

 

The White Sox have 1 player in the top 30 in MLB in fWAR, 2 players in the top 60, 3 players in the top 90, and 4 players in the top 120 assuming Samardzija departs.

 

That's some unbelievable core. You'd never guess that a team could have players that good in their core just by chance. Clearly that's something that we have to take advantage of while we have it.

 

Ok so? You can still win with all those guys.

 

Last year the Giants had one pitcher with a WAR above 3. That was Madison Bumgarner at 3.9 and not another pitcher with a WAR above 2. Hudson and Peavy finished with a 1.9 WAR.

 

This year, the Sox had 2 pitchers with a WAR above 4 (Sale 6.2, Quintana 4.8) and 2 more pitchers with WARs above 2 (Shark 2.7, Rodon 2.1 in 23 starts).

 

Hitting wise the Sox managed 2 players with a WAR of 3 or above in Abreu or Eaton.

 

Giants had 4 hitters with WARs above 3 in Posey, Crawford, Pence, and Sandoval.

 

You add a piece or 2 on offense to this core, and they definitely can make some noise next year. Factor in possibly an outlier year from Melky and this offense could do enough with the pitching staff that we have.

 

[LDF]

Us Sox fans would hate Desmond. Lots of inexcusable errors and lots of terrible at bats. Unless he comes way cheaper than most would imagine, I'd rather stick with Alexei for one more year.

 

i understand but he would be a nice option at 3b, again dependent on 2 things, salary request and QO,

[OmarComing25]

For all you Heyward guys, I thought this juxtaposition was fascinating. It's the ranking by OPS for major leaguers.

 

47 Jason Heyward STL 547 79 160 33 4 13 60 23 3 56 90 .293 .359 .439 .797 6.5

48 Charlie Blackmon COL 614 93 176 31 9 17 58 43 13 46 112 .287 .347 .450 .797 2.3

49 Adam Eaton CHW 610 98 175 28 9 14 56 18 8 58 131 .287 .361 .431 .792 3.9

 

Adam Eaton is basically the equivalent to Heyward at the plate.

That's been pointed out already several times, but Heyward is also a much better defender than Eaton and we had by far the worst defensive outfield in the MLB. Is that enough to make Heyward's massive contract worth it? Maybe not, but Heyward's a 6 WAR player for a reason.

[GGajewski18]

For all you Heyward guys, I thought this juxtaposition was fascinating. It's the ranking by OPS for major leaguers.

 

47 Jason Heyward STL 547 79 160 33 4 13 60 23 3 56 90 .293 .359 .439 .797 6.5

48 Charlie Blackmon COL 614 93 176 31 9 17 58 43 13 46 112 .287 .347 .450 .797 2.3

49 Adam Eaton CHW 610 98 175 28 9 14 56 18 8 58 131 .287 .361 .431 .792 3.9

 

Adam Eaton is basically the equivalent to Heyward at the plate.

 

We know that. It's the other things that Heyward brings to the team as mentioned in the 1st post on page 42 that would benefit the Sox.

 

Baserunning

Defense

Left handed bat

Edited October 6, 2015 by SoxPride18

[GGajewski18]

i understand but he would be a nice option at 3b, again dependent on 2 things, salary request and QO,

 

Why do you think so? You're always one that doesn't like " what ifs". Desmond hasn't played an inning at 3B in his ML career.

[GGajewski18]

Ok so? You can still win with all those guys.

 

Last year the Giants had one pitcher with a WAR above 3. That was Madison Bumgarner at 3.9 and not another pitcher with a WAR above 2. Hudson and Peavy finished with a 1.9 WAR.

 

This year, the Sox had 2 pitchers with a WAR above 4 (Sale 6.2, Quintana 4.8) and 2 more pitchers with WARs above 2 (Shark 2.7, Rodon 2.1 in 23 starts).

 

Hitting wise the Sox managed 2 players with a WAR of 3 or above in Abreu or Eaton.

 

Giants had 4 hitters with WARs above 3 in Posey, Crawford, Pence, and Sandoval.

 

You add a piece or 2 on offense to this core, and they definitely can make some noise next year. Factor in possibly an outlier year from Melky and this offense could do enough with the pitching staff that we have.

[LDF]

Why do you think so? You're always one that doesn't like " what ifs". Desmond hasn't played an inning at 3B in his ML career.

 

you are correct, i didn't make a what if.

 

my first point is QO which i stated

next was salary request which i stated.

 

next i say i would put him in 3b. of course it will depend if he is an option, can he play 3b. considering he was a ss his career, moving over to 3b would be an option.

 

nice try.

[VAfan]

If the Sox were to add two bats, for my money Cespedes and Frazier would make sense.

 

Cespedes is not eligible for a qualifying offer, is Cuban, and has solid power numbers. Can he play right field? This is the question. But at least it's only a matter of money to acquire him.

 

Frazier gives you a power hitting third baseman whose defensive WAR is at least positive. The question here is what would it take to land him in a trade?

 

These additions would give you a preponderance of right handed power. But they would make a huge difference for the Sox lineup, which could probably hide LaRoche in a platoon, and get by with a weak bottom of the order.

 

Eaton

Abreu

Cabrera

Cespedes

Frazier

LaRoche/Thompson

Ramirez

Flowers

Sanchez

 

I think this is also a pipe dream, but I'd happily support it as long at Quintana isn't sacrificed for Frazier, because I have no objection to the Sox spending money.

 

[VAfan]

That's been pointed out already several times, but Heyward is also a much better defender than Eaton and we had by far the worst defensive outfield in the MLB. Is that enough to make Heyward's massive contract worth it? Maybe not, but Heyward's a 6 WAR player for a reason.

 

But his offense is all you would be gaining, because the Sox have an option to play Trayce Thompson in the field. For $20 million per year, or whatever he's going to command, you would be much smarter to spend it somewhere else.

[bmags]

Yeah the more we talk the more I think we'd be much better off going with our exact same lineup.

[daggins]

Yeah the more we talk the more I think we'd be much better off going with our exact same lineup.

 

I think that the Sox will bring in 3B help definitely. Otherwise, I expect to see most of the same faces as this year.

[GGajewski18]

you are correct, i didn't make a what if.

 

my first point is QO which i stated

next was salary request which i stated.

 

next i say i would put him in 3b. of course it will depend if he is an option, can he play 3b. considering he was a ss his career, moving over to 3b would be an option.

 

nice try.

 

My post was not about the QO or salary. My post was strictly about him moving to 3B which he has not played at all in his ML career. He's bad at SS, I'd be hesitant to play him at 3B, that's your what if.

[Baron]

I dont think they should sign anyone. Robin's great communication is going to help fix the problems. I'm sure of it.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Baron

[Balta1701]

Ok so? You can still win with all those guys.

 

Last year the Giants had one pitcher with a WAR above 3. That was Madison Bumgarner at 3.9 and not another pitcher with a WAR above 2. Hudson and Peavy finished with a 1.9 WAR.

 

This year, the Sox had 2 pitchers with a WAR above 4 (Sale 6.2, Quintana 4.8) and 2 more pitchers with WARs above 2 (Shark 2.7, Rodon 2.1 in 23 starts).

 

Hitting wise the Sox managed 2 players with a WAR of 3 or above in Abreu or Eaton.

 

Giants had 4 hitters with WARs above 3 in Posey, Crawford, Pence, and Sandoval.

 

You add a piece or 2 on offense to this core, and they definitely can make some noise next year. Factor in possibly an outlier year from Melky and this offense could do enough with the pitching staff that we have.

Of course you "Can" win with these guys. That's not what people are saying. People keep saying "we can't afford to waste this chance with this core!!" as though it's some incredible, once in a lifetime event. We have a core that is within error of "what you'd have if you distributed the top 120 players randomly amongst 30 teams" and yet "We can't afford to wait we have to win with this core right now" keeps coming out.

 

This isn't bad. You can win with it. But it's not some "once in a lifetime, unbelievable, never will see again" set of players. If you don't win the world series with this group...you're just like 10-20 other teams in the big leagues that have comparable cores.

 

Well, at least it wouldn't be for a decent franchise.

[Jose Abreu]

Of course you "Can" win with these guys. That's not what people are saying. People keep saying "we can't afford to waste this chance with this core!!" as though it's some incredible, once in a lifetime event. We have a core that is within error of "what you'd have if you distributed the top 120 players randomly amongst 30 teams" and yet "We can't afford to wait we have to win with this core right now" keeps coming out.

 

This isn't bad. You can win with it. But it's not some "once in a lifetime, unbelievable, never will see again" set of players. If you don't win the world series with this group...you're just like 10-20 other teams in the big leagues that have comparable cores.

 

Well, at least it wouldn't be for a decent franchise.

Our core sure is better than you make it sound. You're only using fWAR to evaluate them. Look at it this way- we have a once-in-a-lifetime pitcher who is a top-5 player in baseball, another top-15 starting pitcher in baseball, and one of the most dynamic, consistent hitters in baseball. Rodon could very well join this list after next season, too.

[Balta1701]

Our core sure is better than you make it sound. You're only using fWAR to evaluate them. Look at it this way- we have a once-in-a-lifetime pitcher who is a top-5 player in baseball, another top-15 starting pitcher in baseball, and one of the most dynamic, consistent hitters in baseball. Rodon could very well join this list after next season, too.

Um, no?

[Jose Abreu]

Um, no?

Just wondering, do you consider Randy Johnson a once-in-a-lifetime pitcher?

 

[Balta1701]

Just wondering, do you consider Randy Johnson a once-in-a-lifetime pitcher?

 

Do you expect Chris Sale to take the kind of jump at age 29 that Randy Johnson did? Because that would make him a once in a lifetime pitcher.

 

Right now there's ~5 comparable pitchers in baseball and several better.

[BlackSox13]

As far as Desmond goes, there have been plenty of short stops that have moved over to 3B so its quite possible he could play third. As long as Desmond has the arm strength he could end up being a better 3B than SS after some time to adjust. I'm not so concerned about Desmond's ability to play 3B as I am about his asking price, QO status and willingness to move to 3B.