My/Your Off Season Plan

[Jose Abreu]

Do you expect Chris Sale to take the kind of jump at age 29 that Randy Johnson did? Because that would make him a once in a lifetime pitcher.

 

Right now there's ~5 comparable pitchers in baseball and several better.

Sale doesn't need to make nearly as big of a jump as Johnson did because his stats are already markedly better, especially in the walks department, as Sale's K:BB is simply ridiculous, whereas Johnson struggled and walked many batters- even after he turned 29 (in comparison to Sale).

 

Who are these 5 comparable pitchers/several better pitchers? IMO, there's Kershaw, and that's it. I'm not just talking about one successful season, I mean 3+ in a row.

[Jose Abreu]

As far as Desmond goes, there have been plenty of short stops that have moved over to 3B so its quite possible he could play third. As long as Desmond has the arm strength he could end up being a better 3B than SS after some time to adjust. I'm not so concerned about Desmond's ability to play 3B as I am about his asking price, QO status and willingness to move to 3B.

I feel like regardless of where you put him in the infield, he would bring very poor defense.

[Jose Abreu]

Desmond strikes out a lot, doesn't get on base at a good clip, and commits lots of bonehead errors. I can picture Soxtalk absolutely hating him if we signed him.

[Balta1701]

Sale doesn't need to make nearly as big of a jump as Johnson did because his stats are already markedly better, especially in the walks department, as Sale's K:BB is simply ridiculous, whereas Johnson struggled and walked many batters- even after he turned 29 (in comparison to Sale).

 

Who are these 5 comparable pitchers/several better pitchers? IMO, there's Kershaw, and that's it. I'm not just talking about one successful season, I mean 3+ in a row.

We made a big deal about Quintana being top 10 in fWAR. Just to use the easy comparison, Sale is 4th over the last 3 years, Scherzer and Price are also ahead of him, Kluber and Felix are pretty close, and over that time he's been 8th, 8th, and 5th out of pitchers in baseball (hence, he's a top 15 player, but top 5?)

 

That's pretty darn good. But the same f***ing guy has been "1, 1, and 1". That's where you can use the phrase once in a lifetime and I'll buy it. Do you think Max Scherzer is a "once in a lifetime" pitcher? I don't. Because he's solidly outpitched Sale the last 3 years in those #s. And hell, if he's once in a lifetime, the Tigers have had 2 lifetimes since 2006.

[Quin]

Kershaw is the only once in a lifetime pitcher at the moment. That's ok.

[Jose Abreu]

We made a big deal about Quintana being top 10 in fWAR. Just to use the easy comparison, Sale is 4th over the last 3 years, Scherzer and Price are also ahead of him, Kluber and Felix are pretty close, and over that time he's been 8th, 8th, and 5th out of pitchers in baseball (hence, he's a top 15 player, but top 5?)

 

That's pretty darn good. But the same f***ing guy has been "1, 1, and 1". That's where you can use the phrase once in a lifetime and I'll buy it. Do you think Max Scherzer is a "once in a lifetime" pitcher? I don't. Because he's solidly outpitched Sale the last 3 years in those #s. And hell, if he's once in a lifetime, the Tigers have had 2 lifetimes since 2006.

No, because Scherzer struggled early in his career. He's dominant now, but the 4.5 years of mediocrity strips him of consideration for that title.

 

And to reply to the top 5 player thing... (no order) Trout, Kershaw, Harper, Goldy... Sale. Cutch, Cabrera, and Posey follow. But that's just my opinion.

[BlackSox13]

I feel like regardless of where you put him in the infield, he would bring very poor defense.

 

 

Desmond strikes out a lot, doesn't get on base at a good clip, and commits lots of bonehead errors. I can picture Soxtalk absolutely hating him if we signed him.

Can't say I disagree with any of this. No doubt Desmond comes with many concerns and by no means am I advocating signing him, just wanted to point out that short stops can move to third. Honestly, I would prefer to steer clear of Desmond due to things you pointed out and I flat out don't think he will be worth the contract/$.

 

I'm absolutely clueless as to what the Sox will do for 3B in '16. Frazier will cost plenty of prospects, K's alot and has a low OBP so I'd rather steer clear of him as well. I just don't know about 3B...

 

We could see a ST battle between Olt and Davidson.

[caulfield12]

Another option is bringing in Desmond for SS and moving Anderson to 3b, but that's definitely dubious from a defensive standpoint.

 

Then again, moving players out of that pressure-filled position to either 3b or 2b has worked in the past. And we already have three potential starters at 2b in Sanchez, Johnson and Saladino.

 

Practically anything sounds better than Olt/Davidson/Saladino long-term, fwiw.

Edited October 7, 2015 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

WAR is a counting stat Balta. In those three seasons Sale made 30, 26 and 31 starts, which brings him to a WAR total (counting stat) that is less than his peers that you mentioned.

 

WAR/200 IP, starts/season

 

Kershaw ---------7.02, 31

Sale ------------- 5.49, 29

Scherzer -------- 5.34, 32.67

Kluber -----------5.19, 30

Price ------------- 5.16, 31

Felix -------------4.49, 32

 

I have no problem with you saying Sale isn't a once in a generation pitcher and I agree with you but the argument that there is a several pitchers that have been better than him is silly. He's missed some starts over strains and the team being careful but should he really be punished for that? The several pitchers that you mentioned as better than him, over your preferred sample, have been more effective on a cumulative basis but on a rate basis, Kershaw is the only pitcher who has been better than Sale.

Great post.

[nitetrain8601]

If the Sox were to add two bats, for my money Cespedes and Frazier would make sense.

 

Cespedes is not eligible for a qualifying offer, is Cuban, and has solid power numbers. Can he play right field? This is the question. But at least it's only a matter of money to acquire him.

 

Frazier gives you a power hitting third baseman whose defensive WAR is at least positive. The question here is what would it take to land him in a trade?

 

These additions would give you a preponderance of right handed power. But they would make a huge difference for the Sox lineup, which could probably hide LaRoche in a platoon, and get by with a weak bottom of the order.

 

Eaton

Abreu

Cabrera

Cespedes

Frazier

LaRoche/Thompson

Ramirez

Flowers

Sanchez

 

I think this is also a pipe dream, but I'd happily support it as long at Quintana isn't sacrificed for Frazier, because I have no objection to the Sox spending money.

 

I like this plan, but I just don't like the batting order. I rather flip flop Cabrera and Abreu.

 

[ChiSox59]

WAR is a counting stat Balta. In those three seasons Sale made 30, 26 and 31 starts, which brings him to a WAR total (counting stat) that is less than his peers that you mentioned.

 

WAR/200 IP, starts/season

 

Kershaw ---------7.02, 31

Sale ------------- 5.49, 29

Scherzer -------- 5.34, 32.67

Kluber -----------5.19, 30

Price ------------- 5.16, 31

Felix -------------4.49, 32

 

I have no problem with you saying Sale isn't a once in a generation pitcher and I agree with you but the argument that there is a several pitchers that have been better than him is silly. He's missed some starts over strains and the team being careful but should he really be punished for that? The several pitchers that you mentioned as better than him, over your preferred sample, have been more effective on a cumulative basis but on a rate basis, Kershaw is the only pitcher who has been better than Sale.

 

But that doesn't fit his narrative!!

 

[Dunt]

It really sucks never watching the Sox play postseason baseball

[caulfield12]

But that doesn't fit his narrative!!

 

From another standpoint, it represents his downside and risk factors more accurately because it has been impossible to count on him to put up 31-33 starts per season.

[LDF]

Just wondering, do you consider Randy Johnson a once-in-a-lifetime pitcher?

 

 

excellent find....

[LDF]

My post was not about the QO or salary. My post was strictly about him moving to 3B which he has not played at all in his ML career. He's bad at SS, I'd be hesitant to play him at 3B, that's your what if.

 

there is no what if, this is all dependent on what i stated, and it is then, the gm job to determine if he is capable.

 

i am not saying go out and sign him and what it would like if....

 

i am saying he might be an option based on variable i already mention.

 

a ss who has played ss for many yrs can and should handle the 3b job, but i am not advocating this. i am not living in a fantasy world of signing this and what it would look like if.

 

there has to be options that needs to be address or look into.

 

[OmarComing25]

A name I haven't heard much is Colby Rasmus. He could provide us with some much-needed power, he was a plus defender in RF this year according to DRS (43 games at +3), and he'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than Heyward. Sign him to play RF, move Eaton to LF, move Thompson to CF? At the very least that could be the OF on days we face LHP (with Melky moving to DH on those days). That OF has OK power potential, and is significantly better defensively than this year. What would it take to sign Rasmus?

Edited October 7, 2015 by OmarComing25

[Jose Abreu]

A name I haven't heard much is Colby Rasmus. He could provide us with some much-needed power, he was a plus defender in RF this year according to DRS (43 games at +3), and he'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than Heyward. Sign him to play RF, move Eaton to LF, move Thompson to CF? At the very least that could be the OF on days we face LHP (with Melky moving to DH on those days). That OF has OK power potential, and is significantly better defensively than this year. What would it take to sign Rasmus?

He's a guy who hits for low average and strikes out at a high rate. Pass.

 

Also, why would you want Rasmus to face only LHP? I think you have it backwards.

[OmarComing25]

He's a guy who hits for low average and strikes out at a high rate. Pass.

 

Also, why would you want Rasmus to face only LHP? I think you have it backwards.

I wouldn't want him only to face LHP, that was my way of getting Thompson into the lineup if he doesn't earn a starting job next year. I'd want Rasmus starting full-time. And Rasmus had an .835 OPS against LHP this year with an average 20 points higher. But given his career splits I'll admit that's unlikely to continue.

[VAfan]

I think that the Sox will bring in 3B help definitely. Otherwise, I expect to see most of the same faces as this year.

 

That's what I posted several pages ago on this thread. Watching Houston last night drove it home even more. You can't compete with a lineup made up of 30 something free agents who cost a ton and don't produce better than the young athletic power hitting speed demons that the Astros accumulated by tanking AND drafting position players well.

[VAfan]

I like this plan, but I just don't like the batting order. I rather flip flop Cabrera and Abreu.

 

Trying to break up the righties. That's why I did that.

[Dick Allen]

That's what I posted several pages ago on this thread. Watching Houston last night drove it home even more. You can't compete with a lineup made up of 30 something free agents who cost a ton and don't produce better than the young athletic power hitting speed demons that the Astros accumulated by tanking AND drafting position players well.

The fact that they are not blaming the manager means they are blaming the players. I expect a very active winter for the White Sox.

[Eminor3rd]

The fact that they are not blaming the manager means they are blaming the players. I expect a very active winter for the White Sox.

 

That's the way I took it, too. I think it's ultimately good news.

[3GamesToLove]

It really sucks never watching the Sox play postseason baseball

 

Sure, but on the other hand it's nice to be able to watch high-stakes intense baseball without having to worry about the anxiety that goes along with having your own team involved.

[SCCWS]

That's what I posted several pages ago on this thread. Watching Houston last night drove it home even more. You can't compete with a lineup made up of 30 something free agents who cost a ton and don't produce better than the young athletic power hitting speed demons that the Astros accumulated by tanking AND drafting position players well.

 

Chris Carter not included

 

[Dunt]

You should be ashamed of yourself. I'd do a lot of things to have to "worry about the anxiety."

 

Ya, I would forego hair, fingernails, a liver, anything, to regularly be nervous in October.