My/Your Off Season Plan

[LDF]

Melky is the bigger anchor: lousy defender, hitting poorly, stuck a year beyond Laroche, cost a draft pick.

 

a purely innocent question.

 

can you use the 2014 stats on melky to see the difference in the 2 yrs???

 

the problem i have is this yr totally sucks and i just can't believe this is the real players that the sox signed during the FA period.

[Lillian]

In lieu of acquiring another outfielder, there may be a way for the Sox to productively platoon Eaton, Cabrera, Garcia, Thompson and maybe even Shuck.

Although he's a switch hitter, Melky has been better in his career vs. RHP, with the notable exception of 2012. He's been better this year batting from the left side: .283 .330 .404

Dido for Eaton this year, with all of his power vs. RHP: .283 .368 .461

Avi has been better vs. LHP: .298 .353 .404

Thompson has the reputation of being better vs. LHP, We've seen it during his brief stint this year, and it was much the same at Charlotte: .314 .346 .483

Shuck has actually hit lefties better, in his career, even though he bats from that side.

 

I hate the idea of platooning young players like Thompson and Garcia, because it slows their development. Nevertheless, if it could boost production, and get the team

on base percentage up to a respectable level, it might be worth a try.

 

If they could dump LaRoche, I would pick the best 4 of these 5 guys and platoon them in the 3 outfield spots, again of course, barring an acquisition.

Eaton and Thompson could platoon in CF, Avi and Melky could do the same in Left.

Late inning defense could include both Eaton and Thompson, for Center and Right, with either Melky or Avi for the other corner.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Lillian

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Avi's still only 24. While he's been frustrating to watch at times, I still find it hard to give up on him because he does have some flashes of potential to be a winning piece. I'm am done seeing him in the OF. The Sox need to find a way to dump LaRoche and let Avi play sparingly in RF while mostly DH'ing.

 

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox go after Fowler if he leaves the Cubs. Not sure they could get him or Eaton to move to RF, but he's the type of OBP the team needs at the top of the lineup. Eaton, Fowler, Abreu is a pretty nice 1, 2, 3. Plus that allows Melky to move further down in the order where he belongs.

[Jose Abreu]

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox go after Fowler if he leaves the Cubs. Not sure they could get him or Eaton to move to RF, but he's the type of OBP the team needs at the top of the lineup. Eaton, Fowler, Abreu is a pretty nice 1, 2, 3. Plus that allows Melky to move further down in the order where he belongs.

Cabrera doesn't bat 1-3 anymore, anyway. At least not often. And Fowler's OBP is .350. Nothing special.

[Balta1701]

Cabrera doesn't bat 1-3 anymore, anyway. At least not often. And Fowler's OBP is .350. Nothing special.

The White Sox have 1 regular who's OBP is .350, Jose Abreu, and his is exactly .350. Literally every other player on the White Sox who has a decent number of PAs (basically excluding TT) has an OBP of .350 and below. The White Sox have had 0 players who you'd describe their OBP as "special".

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Cabrera doesn't bat 1-3 anymore, anyway. At least not often. And Fowler's OBP is .350. Nothing special.

 

The White Sox have 1 regular who's OBP is .350, Jose Abreu, and his is exactly .350. Literally every other player on the White Sox who has a decent number of PAs (basically excluding TT) has an OBP of .350 and below. The White Sox have had 0 players who you'd describe their OBP as "special".

 

Exactly what I was getting at.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Melky is the bigger anchor: lousy defender, hitting poorly, stuck a year beyond Laroche, cost a draft pick.

 

He's hitting .322/.377/.479 w/RISP. That alone makes him worth it. Tyler Flowers is 3rd among regulars w/RISP. We need more clutch hitters not less.

[LDF]

In lieu of acquiring another outfielder, there may be a way for the Sox to productively platoon Eaton, Cabrera, Garcia, Thompson and maybe even Shuck.

Although he's a switch hitter, Melky has been better in his career vs. RHP, with the notable exception of 2012. He's been better this year batting from the left side: .283 .330 .404

Dido for Eaton this year, with all of his power vs. RHP: .283 .368 .461

Avi has been better vs. LHP: .298 .353 .404

Thompson has the reputation of being better vs. LHP, We've seen it during his brief stint this year, and it was much the same at Charlotte: .314 .346 .483

Shuck has actually hit lefties better, in his career, even though he bats from that side.

 

I hate the idea of platooning young players like Thompson and Garcia, because it slows their development. Nevertheless, if it could boost production, and get the team

on base percentage up to a respectable level, it might be worth a try.

 

If they could dump LaRoche, I would pick the best 4 of these 5 guys and platoon them in the 3 outfield spots, again of course, barring an acquisition.

Eaton and Thompson could platoon in CF, Avi and Melky could do the same in Left.

Late inning defense could include both Eaton and Thompson, for Center and Right, with either Melky or Avi for the other corner.

 

this is the wild card going into the off season. i have been thinking long and hard and have asked some posters on their opinion. basically it comes down to this. will the owners allow the FO, Hahn to go out and make some necessary acquisitions via the FA rt??? the answer i get is maybe and if so, it will not be major deals or money being spent. so the Heyward kind of wish list is out the freaking window.

 

so it will be thru trades. i just hope it really isn't for prospects... i am kinda of hoping that the sox get players who are the mlb roster now.

 

so imho, no outfielder on the wish list and adam laroche is and will stay as the dh. that leaves getting a 3b and catcher.

 

i really do hope i am wrong.

[Feeky Magee]

Good news on Avi everyone! He's due to turn in a positive WAR in about 2019:

 

[Balta1701]

this is the wild card going into the off season. i have been thinking long and hard and have asked some posters on their opinion. basically it comes down to this. will the owners allow the FO, Hahn to go out and make some necessary acquisitions via the FA rt??? the answer i get is maybe and if so, it will not be major deals or money being spent. so the Heyward kind of wish list is out the freaking window.

 

so it will be thru trades. i just hope it really isn't for prospects... i am kinda of hoping that the sox get players who are the mlb roster now.

 

so imho, no outfielder on the wish list and adam laroche is and will stay as the dh. that leaves getting a 3b and catcher.

 

i really do hope i am wrong.

It's not just "Will they make some necessary acquisitions via FA" or however you said it. The reason why I pointed out in the other thread HOW TERRIBLE the return on free agent investments was in 2015 was that at least last year, if you tried to completely overhaul your roster, fill multiple positions through FA, it was an abject failure. Maybe Heyward you go after because you think you're going to be able to compete in 2-3 years, but "making necessary acquisitions via the FA rt" is fundamentally flawed. They can't be necessary acquisitions in FA, you have to have a strong roster without them. If you don't have a strong enough roster that you need to fill multiple positions, some of the big money you spend to fill those positions is likely to wind up completely wasted.

 

That's one we need to recognize. A big part of the reason why last offseason's "plan" failed was that it is fundamentally flawed. In this market, with this much money out there, you cannot completely overhaul a roster in free agency any more. You need to have a roster that you're adding small supplements to in order to make the FA market work.

[LDF]

It's not just "Will they make some necessary acquisitions via FA" or however you said it. The reason why I pointed out in the other thread HOW TERRIBLE the return on free agent investments was in 2015 was that at least last year, if you tried to completely overhaul your roster, fill multiple positions through FA, it was an abject failure. Maybe Heyward you go after because you think you're going to be able to compete in 2-3 years, but "making necessary acquisitions via the FA rt" is fundamentally flawed. They can't be necessary acquisitions in FA, you have to have a strong roster without them. If you don't have a strong enough roster that you need to fill multiple positions, some of the big money you spend to fill those positions is likely to wind up completely wasted.

 

That's one we need to recognize. A big part of the reason why last offseason's "plan" failed was that it is fundamentally flawed. In this market, with this much money out there, you cannot completely overhaul a roster in free agency any more. You need to have a roster that you're adding small supplements to in order to make the FA market work.

 

you make a valid point.....

 

but what many is asking for is flawed. trying to get a player who has the necessary stat across the board is going to be a chore. just as you are looking, so is the stat savvy gm on the other team. the bottom line is while looking for that player, this team has holes and it needs to be mended. the answer is FA... but this time on the go around, their will be restrictions set down from the higher ups.

Edited September 11, 2015 by LDF

[2nd_city_saint787]

Good news on Avi everyone! He's due to turn in a positive WAR in about 2019:

 

 

How often are those projections even right?

[Feeky Magee]

How often are those projections even right?

Those aren't projections, those are what he's produced, it was a joke based on the fact that he's very slightly improving on awful performances year-by-year.

 

But, fwiw, projection systems got Avi's performance this year pretty much spot on. Also worth mentioning the projections had the White Sox at about 78 wins, whilst 92% of soxtalk had them at 80+: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...amp;pid=3129545

[2nd_city_saint787]

Those aren't projections, those are what he's produced, it was a joke based on the fact that he's very slightly improving on awful performances year-by-year.

 

But, fwiw, projection systems got Avi's performance this year pretty much spot on. Also worth mentioning the projections had the White Sox at about 78 wins, whilst 92% of soxtalk had them at 80+: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...amp;pid=3129545

 

Gotcha, well played.

 

I still think you give Avi one more year. He had a horrible month of June. Take June out and he's hit .294 on the year.

[Feeky Magee]

Gotcha, well played.

 

I still think you give Avi one more year. He had a horrible month of June. Take June out and he's hit .294 on the year.

A lot of players would look good if you took away the worst 20% of their season. And Avi could hit .294 and still be a pretty bad player, considering he doesn't walk, hit for that much power, run the bases well or play anything approaching okay defence.

[nitetrain8601]

I think the Sox need to get multiple boppers. Longoria, CarGo/Puig. Hell, I'd check in on Detroit to see if they'd be willing to deal Miggy or the Angels with Pujols. Look at Beltre. I need at least 3 proven bats, I need LaRoche gone, I'm willing to deal Q. Definitely let Jeff S go.

[kitekrazy]

I think the Sox need to get multiple boppers. Longoria, CarGo/Puig. Hell, I'd check in on Detroit to see if they'd be willing to deal Miggy or the Angels with Pujols. Look at Beltre. I need at least 3 proven bats, I need LaRoche gone, I'm willing to deal Q. Definitely let Jeff S go.

 

The way things are going once they put that Sox uniform on = bust. Maybe Miggy performs but Pujols would require a team taking on a lot of salary. It's a bad contract since I think he is signed until he's 90.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I think the Sox need to get multiple boppers. Longoria, CarGo/Puig. Hell, I'd check in on Detroit to see if they'd be willing to deal Miggy or the Angels with Pujols. Look at Beltre. I need at least 3 proven bats, I need LaRoche gone, I'm willing to deal Q. Definitely let Jeff S go.

I think two legit bats (preferably RF & 3B) and improvement from some of our holdovers makes us contenders next year. The pitching staff should actually be better with Rodon's continued development, Johnson replacing a disappointing Shark, & a full season of Nate Jones. We don't need an elite offense, just can't be bottom five in OPS & ISO like we are this year.

[Jerksticks]

I think two legit bats (preferably RF & 3B) and improvement from some of our holdovers makes us contenders next year. The pitching staff should actually be better with Rodon's continued development, Johnson replacing a disappointing Shark, & a full season of Nate Jones. We don't need an elite offense, just can't be bottom five in OPS & ISO like we are this year.

Interesting. Jeff S was so bad this year, looking at his overall numbers now, that It would be hard for EJ to be much worse. He could be worse but probably not much worse. It's similar to SS. Sure Saladino could be worse than Alexei...but really? Probably not. Save the 9 million and put it into the Heyward fund.

[nitetrain8601]

The way things are going once they put that Sox uniform on = bust. Maybe Miggy performs but Pujols would require a team taking on a lot of salary. It's a bad contract since I think he is signed until he's 90.

 

True, but maybe they don't bust. Pujols is still doing pretty good. Surprising since I think the Angels have a crap lineup with two generational type thumpers at the 2 and 3 spot with Trout and Pujols. Everyone else they throw out there is mediocre. Only exceptions may be Calhoun and maybe Cron. Detroit is in rebuild mode. Does it make sense for them to hold onto Miggy? I don't know. I hope not. Most importantly, the point is to get Abreu some much needed protection.

[greg775]

I think two legit bats (preferably RF & 3B) and improvement from some of our holdovers makes us contenders next year. The pitching staff should actually be better with Rodon's continued development, Johnson replacing a disappointing Shark, & a full season of Nate Jones. We don't need an elite offense, just can't be bottom five in OPS & ISO like we are this year.

 

Guys, Nate Jones is not elite. He just isn't. One thing Sox better do is dump Olt when season ends. He should not be in spring training with the Sox, tempting them. He's a bust.

[chitownsportsfan]

Those aren't projections, those are what he's produced, it was a joke based on the fact that he's very slightly improving on awful performances year-by-year.

 

But, fwiw, projection systems got Avi's performance this year pretty much spot on. Also worth mentioning the projections had the White Sox at about 78 wins, whilst 92% of soxtalk had them at 80+: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...amp;pid=3129545

 

 

In the year MLB broke the projections I have to love your incessantly gleeful "told you so!" message.

 

Seriously, the Mets, Yankees and Cubs are laughing at not only the Sox but also your myopic view of the data that confirms your hypothesis about not only Avi but this Sox team.. We can't really predict MLB teams. What we can say is that there are good teams and bad ones. The Sox have been awful for 5+ years. Fire the f***ing men responsible.

Edited September 11, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[Jose Abreu]

Guys, Nate Jones is not elite. He just isn't.

Nobody said he was. But a full year of him would undoubtedly improve our pitching.

[Chicago White Sox]

Anyone got some guesses on the type of contracts the big four OFs get this offseason? Really think we got to snag one of these guys. I know we'd have to give up a draft pick to sign all of them but Cespedes, but this team isn't take a big step forward without adding some legit bats.

[Jose Abreu]

Anyone got some guesses on the type of contracts the big four OFs get this offseason? Really think we got to snag one of these guys. I know we'd have to give up a draft pick to sign all of them but Cespedes, but this team isn't take a big step forward without adding some legit bats.

I think they will get incredibly large contracts. 8/200 type deals for some.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Jose Abreu