My/Your Off Season Plan

[GreenSox]

I don't see Danks or LaRoche going anywhere but I would be surprised if the Sox didn't move Robertson and Melky. The returns would not be all that spectacular but it would infuse some youth into the farm and open up room for youth on the Sox. With Melky gone, Eaton slides over to LF with Thompson going to CF. Avi can platoon with Shuck in RF and LaRoche at DH, unless the Sox pick up a better option for RF which would be nice.

That's fine with me. But dispatching either of those two will require Sox putting up significant cash, which JR does not like to do. ( unless they are part of a bigger trade).

Edited November 16, 2015 by GreenSox

[LDF]

That's fine with me. But dispatching either of those two will require Sox putting up significant cash, which JR does not like to do. ( unless they are part of a bigger trade).

 

it was pointed out to me, i believe last yr offseason. that the owners did has done eaten contracts while waiving the player. i still wouldn't know if the amount of laroche contract will stop the sox from doing this.

 

however, i believe that you are right on the bigger deal part.

[shysocks]

Yeah, Melky has negative trade value and Robertson is good but too expensive to give up players for.

 

If the plan is to chop as much salary as possible and test the youth, that's fine, but don't expect much back for those two.

[LDF]

Yeah, Melky has negative trade value and Robertson is good but too expensive to give up players for.

 

If the plan is to chop as much salary as possible and test the youth, that's fine, but don't expect much back for those two.

 

excellent point.

 

try as i may, i really can't find a fault in this.

[reiks12]

Trading Robertson would probably hurt the Sox in the long run. You can't sign a guy to a deal and then ship him away after 1 bad year. Why would anyone want to sign with a team like that? He signed here because he was hoping to compete with the team(and money too, obviously). Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

[LDF]

Trading Robertson would probably hurt the Sox in the long run. You can't sign a guy to a deal and then ship him away after 1 bad year. Why would anyone want to sign with a team like that? He signed here because he was hoping to compete with the team(and money too, obviously). Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

 

that possibility of the fall-out is there, esp in this situation. but on the flip side, the team needs players / prospects.

 

doing this is the ugly side of baseball. the business side.

[spiderman]

Dan Hayes to be on 890 wls shortly to talk sox.

 

The interviews on 890 AM are typically 4-6 minutes long, and the hosts are using moving these along so quickly because of an upcoming commercial break that there's no point to even having guests on since everything is so rushed. I didn't hear this interview, but my guess is that it's very high level (White Sox need more hitting, have holes to fill etc. and will look to address them this off-season)

[TheFutureIsNear]

Yeah, Melky has negative trade value and Robertson is good but too expensive to give up players for.

 

If the plan is to chop as much salary as possible and test the youth, that's fine, but don't expect much back for those two.

 

If Robertson were on the open market a team would have to pony up more than the 3 years $36M that is left on his deal. I don't think his contract would be hard to convince a closer needy team to take on at all. Are we getting multiple top prospects for him? Most likely not, but I don't think 2 B level prospects outside the tam's top 6 or 7 without having to eat any money is unreasonable to assume. Now, I highly doubt Robertson actually gets moved, but I don't doubt there would be suitors once there is a team or 2 that loses out on trying to trade for Chapman.

 

 

[LDF]

If Robertson were on the open market a team would have to pony up more than the 3 years $36M that is left on his deal. I don't think his contract would be hard to convince a closer needy team to take on at all. Are we getting multiple top prospects for him? Most likely not, but I don't think 2 B level prospects outside the tam's top 6 or 7 without having to eat any money is unreasonable to assume. Now, I highly doubt Robertson actually gets moved, but I don't doubt there would be suitors once there is a team or 2 that loses out on trying to trade for Chapman.

 

and there are cl's that are on the fa list to be had

[GGajewski18]

and there are cl's that are on the fa list to be had

 

Who? Joe Nathan?

[LDF]

If Robertson were on the open market a team would have to pony up more than the 3 years $36M that is left on his deal. I don't think his contract would be hard to convince a closer needy team to take on at all. Are we getting multiple top prospects for him? Most likely not, but I don't think 2 B level prospects outside the tam's top 6 or 7 without having to eat any money is unreasonable to assume. Now, I highly doubt Robertson actually gets moved, but I don't doubt there would be suitors once there is a team or 2 that loses out on trying to trade for Chapman.

 

dang it. there goes my pipe dream of trading Robertson to Hou for some of their prospects.

 

what a wast of good pipe stuff

[southsider2k5]

If Robertson were on the open market a team would have to pony up more than the 3 years $36M that is left on his deal. I don't think his contract would be hard to convince a closer needy team to take on at all. Are we getting multiple top prospects for him? Most likely not, but I don't think 2 B level prospects outside the tam's top 6 or 7 without having to eat any money is unreasonable to assume. Now, I highly doubt Robertson actually gets moved, but I don't doubt there would be suitors once there is a team or 2 that loses out on trying to trade for Chapman.

 

Yeah, there might be some excess value in that deal, but not much. The only reason to really deal Robertson would be for contract relief. The return wouldn't be that great. We aren't talking about Kimbrell or Chapman.

[ChiSox59]

That's fine with me. But dispatching either of those two will require Sox putting up significant cash, which JR does not like to do. ( unless they are part of a bigger trade).

 

I don't think Melky would require the Sox to eat cash, he just wouldn't bring much in value back in return. Robertson has already been covered in the past few posts - but he's pretty much the same story.

 

Melky is signed for 2 more years at $29M. If he were a FA, he would get well in excess of that. Melky is a pretty good hitter, the Sox just need to get him out of the OF everyday. Play out there every now and then, sure, but not everyday. I think Melky has a real nice bounce back year next year - not that his numbers this year were god awful - they really weren't. He is not someone the Sox should be looking to move, they should be, however, figuring out how to slide him over to DH and getting a real corner OF. Problem is, LaRoche is probably immovable without eating 75% or his contract.

Edited November 16, 2015 by ChiSox59

[Chisoxfn]

I don't think Melky would require the Sox to eat cash, he just wouldn't bring much in value back in return. Robertson has already been covered in the past few posts - but he's pretty much the same story.

 

Melky is signed for 2 more years at $29M. If he were a FA, he would get well in excess of that. Melky is a pretty good hitter, the Sox just need to get him out of the OF everyday. Play out there every now and then, sure, but not everyday. I think Melky has a real nice bounce back year next year - not that his numbers this year were god awful - they really weren't. He is not someone the Sox should be looking to move, they should be, however, figuring out how to slide him over to DH and getting a real corner OF. Problem is, LaRoche is probably immovable without eating 75% or his contract.

I think Melky will have a bounce back year, but their is no way he'd get 2yr 29M on the open market today (coming off of the season he came off of). None...zero.

[bmags]

We have way too many players that we say "they'd be fine if they could (remove this incredibly crucial aspect to the game of baseball)"

[ChiSox59]

I think Melky will have a bounce back year, but their is no way he'd get 2yr 29M on the open market today (coming off of the season he came off of). None...zero.

 

What do you think he'd get? 2 year and $25M? $13.5M AAV is what you get for a pretty average player in free agency today. I suppose I could see him getting somewhere between $20 and $25M on a two year, but I don't see it getting much lower than that. Michael Cuddyer, Billy Butler, Chase Headley, Torii Hunter, and Nick Markakis all got between $10-$13M AAV last offseason. All of which are comparable or worse bats, with equally questionable defense outside of Headley and Markakis.

 

So yeah, $29M may be a bit of stretch, but it's like it is way out of the ballpark.

[Hatchetman]

fangraphs has his average value over the past three years at $3.4 per year.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Hatchetman

[GreenSox]

Melky is signed for 2 more years at $29M. If he were a FA, he would get well in excess of that. Melky is a pretty good hitter, the Sox just need to get him out of the OF everyday.

If that's true, then he's tradeable.

But I don't think it is.

Melky was pretty awful in all aspects last season, including offense.

I do agree we need to get him out of the outfield.

 

I think Robertson is tradeable (I was talking about Melky and Laroche in my post above). But early bird gets the worm. SD made out like bandits from a team willing to pay a premium. Robertson isn't quite at that level but he's right below. We've see 2 trades and 2 premium prospect returns. If Hahn has to get a bunch of approvals to make a move, Sox lose their chance.

Hahn di$$ed around in July and it cost us. Shark needed to be traded early, if at all.

Edited November 16, 2015 by GreenSox

[LDF]

If that's true, then he's tradeable.

But I don't think it is.

Melky was pretty awful in all aspects last season, including offense.

I do agree we need to get him out of the outfield.

 

I think Robertson is tradeable (I was talking about Melky and Laroche in my post above). But early bird gets the worm. SD made out like bandits from a team willing to pay a premium. Robertson isn't quite at that level but he's right below. We've see 2 trades and 2 premium prospect returns. If Hahn has to get a bunch of approvals to make a move, Sox lose their chance.

Hahn di$$ed around in July and it cost us. Shark needed to be traded early, if at all.

 

i am thinking that both melky and robertson will be more enticing if there was another player added, making each deal a bigger deal.

[ChiSox59]

If that's true, then he's tradeable.

But I don't think it is.

Melky was pretty awful in all aspects last season, including offense.

I do agree we need to get him out of the outfield.

 

I think Robertson is tradeable (I was talking about Melky and Laroche in my post above). But early bird gets the worm. SD made out like bandits from a team willing to pay a premium. Robertson isn't quite at that level but he's right below. We've see 2 trades and 2 premium prospect returns. If Hahn has to get a bunch of approvals to make a move, Sox lose their chance.

Hahn di$$ed around in July and it cost us. Shark needed to be traded early, if at all.

 

 

Melky is tradeable, you just wouldn't get anything of real value for him.

 

And he wasn't awful offensively. He wasn't even average offensively. He was slightly above average in a very down year. Look, I am no Melky apologist, but he's a got a pretty good bat. We need to be adding good bats, not subtracting from the few that we have.

 

 

[bmags]

Melky was 49/54 in wRC+ qualified MLB OFers.

[GreenSox]

Melky is tradeable, you just wouldn't get anything of real value for him.

 

And he wasn't awful offensively. He wasn't even average offensively. He was slightly above average in a very down year. Look, I am no Melky apologist, but he's a got a pretty good bat. We need to be adding good bats, not subtracting from the few that we have.

He was slightly below average, with a 97 OPS+. how down a year was it? He was worse in 2013. (for all the grief Avi gets for his first full season, he was only .25 behind Melky).

His career average is .748 OPS, 102 OPS+ which is basically average. He's 30. Add his atrocious D to the equation, and he's a below average LF.

 

And then there's the Sox outfield defense. It's horrible. How can Sox ignore that with a)strength of the team is in pitching and the Sox won't put the D out there to support it and b)watching the Royals and Astros this year, who play impeccable OF defense. And watching the Giants the last several years. Sox aren't winning squat with that OF.

 

That said, Shuck and Thompson are good defenders. Will they hit enough? Who knows. But, frankly Avi and Melky aren't hitting enough themselves.

 

Now they could do things to help like late defensive replacements every night, but that would require Robin to actually do those things.

Edited November 16, 2015 by GreenSox

[ChiSox59]

Melky was 49/54 in wRC+ qualified MLB OFers.

 

Fair enough. He sucked last year. I just think the Sox are better off keeping him around as I think he'd got the ability to be a very productive bat, and those don't grow on trees (well, bats do grow on trees), and they aren't cheap.

[ChiSox59]

He was slightly below average, with a 97 OPS+. how down a year was it? He was worse in 2013.

His career average is .748 OPS, 102 OPS+ which is basically average. He's 30. Add his atrocious D to the equation, and he's a below average LF.

 

And then there's the Sox outfield defense. It's horrible. How can Sox ignore that with a)strength of the team is in pitching and the Sox won't put the D out there to support it and b)watching the Royals and Astros this year, who play impeccable OF defense. And watching the Giants the last several years. Sox aren't winning squat with that OF.

 

My comments were based on him being moved to DH. I agree he's brutal in LF.

[GreenSox]

My comments were based on him being moved to DH. I agree he's brutal in LF.

I agree with you there. That's the best thing. But that requires a)Moving Laroche out and b)finding someone to play backup 1B.

Just shifting Thompson to CF and Eaton to LF will help the D a ton, imo.

Edited November 16, 2015 by GreenSox