In Defense of Jay Cutler

[bmags]

They need a young QB - that's why I had suggested trading for Zach Mettenberger of the Titans. He has good talent and would be a good option to a college guy.

 

That would be a waste of time. The titans desperately needed a good qb in their franchise, and decided he was not their future.

[Kyyle23]

Yea, i think i would prefer to avoid a QB that thinks it is a good idea to taunt JJ Watt

[shipps]

Joe Flacco and Eli Manning have 3 rings between them. I don't consider either to be elite QB's. In fact, I would argue Jay isn't much different then either of them. I have a very short list of QB's who win no matter what. That list is Peyton / Brady / Rodgers. Brees is on the outside looking in (as he's been a part of some stinkers). The other win no matter what.

 

No one else belongs, imo. Cutler absolutely can win if you have a good team around you. He isn't going to carry you on his back the whole way though...only the other 3 guys can do that. Luck has technically done it every year of his career as well.

 

Those two are above and beyond far better quarterbacks than Jay. What the hell is everyone else looking at?

 

You may not have to have a top five QB to win a SB but you better be damn sure you have a guy that plays like one in the playoffs if he is average throughout the season. Can Cutler do that..ever? No.

[The Gooch]

Those two are above and beyond far better quarterbacks than Jay. What the hell is everyone else looking at?

 

You may not have to have a top five QB to win a SB but you better be damn sure you have a guy that plays like one in the playoffs if he is average throughout the season. Can Cutler do that..ever? No.

 

I want a Franchise QB desperately, I just don't think we should waste 2 early picks on a QB. Definitely 1, but not 2. Wouldn't mind a 2nd QB in the later rounds though.

[shipps]

I want a Franchise QB desperately, I just don't think we should waste 2 early picks on a QB. Definitely 1, but not 2. Wouldn't mind a 2nd QB in the later rounds though.

 

I am ok with this. I just wouldnt be mad if Pace was like f*** it...let me grab another quarterback in the second round. If he is decent you can flip it for some more picks anyways. We need lottery tickets folks!

[Jenksismyhero]

Joe Flacco and Eli Manning have 3 rings between them. I don't consider either to be elite QB's. In fact, I would argue Jay isn't much different then either of them. I have a very short list of QB's who win no matter what. That list is Peyton / Brady / Rodgers. Brees is on the outside looking in (as he's been a part of some stinkers). The other win no matter what.

 

No one else belongs, imo. Cutler absolutely can win if you have a good team around you. He isn't going to carry you on his back the whole way though...only the other 3 guys can do that. Luck has technically done it every year of his career as well.

 

The thing is, both have the capacity to go through a stretch of 5-7 games and play at an uber-elite level. And in fact they've done that. Repeatedly. Jay has never, ever had that. He's never shown the ability to play at an elite level against GREAT teams. The only time I can remember the Bears with Jay winning a game they had no business winning was last year's SF game. And we learned that SF wasn't as good without a lot of their star defensive players.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[Boogua]

The irrational Cutler hate will forever be weird to me.

 

The guys record as a starting QB under Lovie was 34-22. In his two years under with Martz (the only solid OC) he was 17-8 and went to an NFC Championship game.

 

Some of the starters from that glorious 2010 year? His top 3 WRs were Johnny Knox, Devin Hester, and Earl Bennett. Awesome. His OL from left to right was Frank Omiyale, Chris Williams, Olin Kreutz, Roberto Garza, and Jamarcus Webb. Fantastic.

 

The Bears finally get offensive weapons for him (albeit still with multiple sieves on the OL) and they pair him with the worst coaching staff that I can remember and the worst defense in franchise history.

 

I get that the guy isn't a top 10 QB like we all wanted, but the hate he gets is just insane to me.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Those two are above and beyond far better quarterbacks than Jay. What the hell is everyone else looking at?

 

You may not have to have a top five QB to win a SB but you better be damn sure you have a guy that plays like one in the playoffs if he is average throughout the season. Can Cutler do that..ever? No.

I watch a ton of football (when i watch...Bears are just one of the many games I'm watching) and Flacco and Eli at times are horrible. I've said many times, Luck can be horrible (and people are seeing it this year). Would I take Luck over Cutler, no brainer. Do I take Flacco over Jay...I'm not sure. I do take Eli over Jay though (but not by a ton). When it comes to the non top 3 QB's (4 including Luck...who might be getting bashed but if I were building a franchise today, he'd be my 2nd pick...behind Rodgers). You have a very long list of guys who are good, but not great, and who can win on the right teams.

 

Bears fans blow up Jay for what he is, but don't pay attention to what a lot of other QB's do. We expected him to be Rodgers, he isn't, but we think he's a lot worse then he actually is. And I consistently said something similar about Romo (who is better then Jay, but suffered / struggled through some of the same issues Jay did before finally getting a good oline and above average D). We all forget how good Jay was when our D was good (his record was extremely strong and he led us to an NFC championship game). Fact of the matter we constructed pretty s***ty teams and our had horrid coaches during a lot of the tenure. Jay was overrated for a long time, now he is severely underrated. He fits squarely in that 7 - 14 mold as a QB and where he rates their depends on the players around him and the quality of the team around him.

 

What I like about Gase / Fox, they seem to understand this and I think they realize, if they can get a franchise QB, great, go for him, but Jay is the exact type of QB as a head coach you can live with. He doesn't have the hype he used to, so he isn't the coach killer he once was (where people saw a top 3 QB), but he also doesn't suck, so if you give him the right weapons he'll be good, and if Fox can get the defense fixed, Bears will be very good and can contend.

 

They need to figure out how to get very good football players. I'll also say if we get the #1 pick, we better take a QB or trade down. Nothing else is worth the #1 pick, imo. We have so many freaking holes on the defensive side. Not to mention we could use a stud OT.

[shipps]

Jas, see Jenksismyb**** post above. He hit it right on the head. Those guys can have stretches of being flat out elite which Jay will never be able to do.

 

Please dont get me wrong. I probably have exaggerated in how much focus should be put into finding a QB but not by much IMO. They need to fill a lot of holes but on Paces big board in his office I want to see finding a Quarterback number 1 and 2 on his to do lists. It has to be of more importance than any other position. I want finding that position to keep him up at night. I want him to rack his brain night and day to find one. LOL

[Chisoxfn]

Jas, see Jenksismyb**** post above. He hit it right on the head. Those guys can have stretches of being flat out elite which Jay will never be able to do.

 

Please dont get me wrong. I probably have exaggerated in how much focus should be put into finding a QB but not by much IMO. They need to fill a lot of holes but on Paces big board in his office I want to see finding a Quarterback number 1 and 2 on his to do lists. It has to be of more importance than any other position. I want finding that position to keep him up at night. I want him to rack his brain night and day to find one. LOL

I agree that they can have hot stretches where they are very good. More so for Eli then Flacco. Flacco looks really bad more then he looks really good. Jay has had stretches where he has been really good (remember some of those windows where he led the league in td's over 3 game stretches). He also has very strong 4th quarter numbers over his career and is in the top 10 of active players in terms of comeback victories.

 

And I am not saying Jay is amazing and I've already said I'd take Eli over Jay. I am saying that you can win a superbowl with Jay (WITH Jay...not because of Jay).

[Panerista]

Where do the Bears have solid, young talent right now? The only name that comes to mind is Kyle Long.

 

 

Alshon?

 

 

Alshon Jeffery. Hopeful on sutton/ferguson/goldman.

The injuries are concerning. He might not be a piece of the long term solution. I would say Kyle Long over Alshon.

 

The young talent we're referring to is Long, White, and the Safety version of Kyle Fuller. Alshon might get franchised by the Bears at the end of his contract, but I think Pace and Co will want to see more durability out of Alshon going forward.

[Middle Buffalo]

I watch a ton of football (when i watch...Bears are just one of the many games I'm watching) and Flacco and Eli at times are horrible. I've said many times, Luck can be horrible (and people are seeing it this year). Would I take Luck over Cutler, no brainer. Do I take Flacco over Jay...I'm not sure. I do take Eli over Jay though (but not by a ton). When it comes to the non top 3 QB's (4 including Luck...who might be getting bashed but if I were building a franchise today, he'd be my 2nd pick...behind Rodgers). You have a very long list of guys who are good, but not great, and who can win on the right teams.

 

Bears fans blow up Jay for what he is, but don't pay attention to what a lot of other QB's do. We expected him to be Rodgers, he isn't, but we think he's a lot worse then he actually is. And I consistently said something similar about Romo (who is better then Jay, but suffered / struggled through some of the same issues Jay did before finally getting a good oline and above average D). We all forget how good Jay was when our D was good (his record was extremely strong and he led us to an NFC championship game). Fact of the matter we constructed pretty s***ty teams and our had horrid coaches during a lot of the tenure. Jay was overrated for a long time, now he is severely underrated. He fits squarely in that 7 - 14 mold as a QB and where he rates their depends on the players around him and the quality of the team around him.

 

^This is basically my point.

 

All QBs throw bad INTs at terrible times. (Is there ever a good time?)

 

PManning has two pick 6s this year. He's also not considered to be great in big games throughout his career.

 

Since the beginning of last year, Luck leads all QBs in turnovers.

 

EManning had terrible mental mistakes that probably cost his team two wins this year. He faced similar body language criticism as Cutler prior to winning. And if not for two historically great catches, he could easily be winless in Super Bowls. Pretty sure the Giants barely qualified both times, too.

 

Carson Palmer was considered a flop as the number one overall pick. He was run out of Cincy. He was dumped by Oakland. Now he's 15-2 in his last 17 starts. Incidentally, he threw a terrible INT right before the half last week that could have cut the Bears deficit to four before halftime (or tied the game if they had capitalized on the muffed punt).

 

Alex Smith threw an equally bad INT before half time of the Thursday night game the week before that helped Denver get back into the game.

 

The list goes on.

 

I don't think Cutler is great. He's overpaid. But, he's way better than most guys out there.

 

And, if you look at the list of QBs who have started in the super bowl, there are quite a few who are not anywhere near elite. Mark Rypien. Neil ODonnell. Stan Humphries. Rex Grossman. David Woodley. Tony Eason. Doug Williams. Ron Jawlrski. Vince Ferragamo. Jim Plunkett. Craig Morton. Jim McMahon. Etc.

 

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2015/9/24...k-bears-history

Edited September 25, 2015 by Middle Buffalo

[Y2Jimmy0]

I don't really care much for hypothetical positions being safer bets. LT has been no sure thing recently.

 

 

Nothing hypothetical about it. I listed 5 players that I would draft before any of the QBs.

[DrunkBomber]

^This is basically my point.

 

All QBs throw bad INTs at terrible times. (Is there ever a good time?)

 

PManning has two pick 6s this year. He's also not considered to be great in big games throughout his career.

 

Since the beginning of last year, Luck leads all QBs in turnovers.

 

EManning had terrible mental mistakes that probably cost his team two wins this year. He faced similar body language criticism as Cutler prior to winning. And if not for two historically great catches, he could easily be winless in Super Bowls. Pretty sure the Giants barely qualified both times, too.

 

Carson Palmer was considered a flop as the number one overall pick. He was run out of Cincy. He was dumped by Oakland. Now he's 15-2 in his last 17 starts. Incidentally, he threw a terrible INT right before the half last week that could have cut the Bears deficit to four before halftime (or tied the game if they had capitalized on the muffed punt).

 

Alex Smith threw an equally bad INT before half time of the Thursday night game the week before that helped Denver get back into the game.

 

The list goes on.

 

I don't think Cutler is great. He's overpaid. But, he's way better than most guys out there.

 

And, if you look at the list of QBs who have started in the super bowl, there are quite a few who are not anywhere near elite. Mark Rypien. Neil ODonnell. Stan Humphries. Rex Grossman. David Woodley. Tony Eason. Doug Williams. Ron Jawlrski. Vince Ferragamo. Jim Plunkett. Craig Morton. Jim McMahon. Etc.

 

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2015/9/24...k-bears-history

I disagree about Palmer. He was a top 5 QB most years when he was in Cincy and iirc he wasnt run out of Cncy, he refused to play for them and retired until they traded him to the Raiders, who are the Raiders.

[Middle Buffalo]

I disagree about Palmer. He was a top 5 QB most years when he was in Cincy and iirc he wasnt run out of Cncy, he refused to play for them and retired until they traded him to the Raiders, who are the Raiders.

http://www.nfl.com/player/carsonpalmer/2505245/profile

 

His turnovers (INTs & fumbles lost) have been pretty high his entire career, and that's always the complaint about Cutler. I did forget the details of his departure from Cincy, though.

[DrunkBomber]

http://www.nfl.com/player/carsonpalmer/2505245/profile

 

His turnovers (INTs & fumbles lost) have been pretty high his entire career, and that's always the complaint about Cutler. I did forget the details of his departure from Cincy, though.

Ya his turnover numbers were higher than I remembered (probably should have looked before I posted lol) His yardage and TD numbers were solid though, and this was before QBs were throwing for 5k yards and 40 tds every year after the rules changes.

[Jenksismyhero]

The irrational Cutler hate will forever be weird to me.

 

The guys record as a starting QB under Lovie was 34-22. In his two years under with Martz (the only solid OC) he was 17-8 and went to an NFC Championship game.

 

Some of the starters from that glorious 2010 year? His top 3 WRs were Johnny Knox, Devin Hester, and Earl Bennett. Awesome. His OL from left to right was Frank Omiyale, Chris Williams, Olin Kreutz, Roberto Garza, and Jamarcus Webb. Fantastic.

 

The Bears finally get offensive weapons for him (albeit still with multiple sieves on the OL) and they pair him with the worst coaching staff that I can remember and the worst defense in franchise history.

 

I get that the guy isn't a top 10 QB like we all wanted, but the hate he gets is just insane to me.

 

The vast, vast majority of the credit for those wins goes to the defense and special teams, not Jay. Jay has sucked against good competition. He's 1-12 against the Packers. 1-12!! That's f***ing pathetic.

 

The biggest problem is that through the first 5 years, it was NEVER his fault. Ever. It was the OC. Then another OC. Then the O-line. Then the lack of weapons. Then the coach. Then the new coach. Then....

 

How about he just isn't as good as everyone thought? He's got a cannon for an arm but a piss poor football IQ to go with it. He's better than most QB's in the league, but he's not a good franchise player. He's not winning you games by himself. No one expects him to be the next Rodgers/Brady/Manning, but people thought he could be the Eli/Ben/Joe kind of QB that mostly manages games and let the defense and running back do their thing, but occasionally can pull off a big important play. He's more likely to throw a terrible pick 6 than have an amazing 4th quarter, game winning drive.

 

Think of the weapons that dude had the last two seasons. I don't care if the coaching was inept, he had 2 stud WR's, a stud TE, a stud RB and a decent o-line. And he STILL couldn't get it done.

 

That is why he is hated. He squandered YEARS of amazing defenses and special teams that were superbowl quality. He's not 100% to blame, but he gets the majority of it in my book.

[2nd_city_saint787]

The irrational Cutler hate will forever be weird to me.

 

The guys record as a starting QB under Lovie was 34-22. In his two years under with Martz (the only solid OC) he was 17-8 and went to an NFC Championship game.

 

Some of the starters from that glorious 2010 year? His top 3 WRs were Johnny Knox, Devin Hester, and Earl Bennett. Awesome. His OL from left to right was Frank Omiyale, Chris Williams, Olin Kreutz, Roberto Garza, and Jamarcus Webb. Fantastic.

 

The Bears finally get offensive weapons for him (albeit still with multiple sieves on the OL) and they pair him with the worst coaching staff that I can remember and the worst defense in franchise history.

 

I get that the guy isn't a top 10 QB like we all wanted, but the hate he gets is just insane to me.

 

Excellent post.

 

People like to talk about how Rodgers gets it done himself, and yet the one Super bowl he's won they had a defense that ranked 2nd in the league.

 

Jay, to me has just never been on a complete team like you alluded to.

 

Hard to win a game when your defense is historically bad. He essentially has to play perfect, and that will never happen.

[Middle Buffalo]

He squandered YEARS of amazing defenses and special teams that were superbowl quality. He's not 100% to blame, but he gets the majority of it in my book.

Defensive Ranking

Year - Points - Yards

2014 - 31st - 30th

2013 - 30th - 30th

2012 - 3rd - 5th (10-6 team record - Lovie fired)

2011 - 14th - 17th

2010 - 4th - 9th (lost in conf final)

2009 - 21st - 17th

 

Yep, YEARS of amazing defense and special teams squandered. You're correct, though. He does get the majority of blame in your book.

[Jenksismyhero]

Defensive Ranking

Year - Points - Yards

2014 - 31st - 30th

2013 - 30th - 30th

2012 - 3rd - 5th (10-6 team record - Lovie fired)

2011 - 14th - 17th

2010 - 4th - 9th (lost in conf final)

2009 - 21st - 17th

 

Yep, YEARS of amazing defense and special teams squandered. You're correct, though. He does get the majority of blame in your book.

 

Last two years aside, the defense was more than adequate to win superbowls. That's the point. He didn't have to lead the team himself. He had to play decent football and not s*** the bed.

 

edit: and how much does his average to bad play affect those defensive statistics? How many more series was the defense forced to play? Look at his TD/turnover numbers. He usually has more turnovers than TD's in a year. In the two seasons where he had more TD's, it's by a few. That's no helping your defense any.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[Jose Abreu]

Defensive Ranking

Year - Points - Yards

2014 - 31st - 30th

2013 - 30th - 30th

2012 - 3rd - 5th (10-6 team record - Lovie fired)

2011 - 14th - 17th

2010 - 4th - 9th (lost in conf final)

2009 - 21st - 17th

 

Yep, YEARS of amazing defense and special teams squandered. You're correct, though. He does get the majority of blame in your book.

Defense was what carried the team during the bolded season, which was a choke job. Started 7-1 or something like that, missed the playoffs. Lovie deserved to be fired then. When the defense stopped playing, we stopped winning.

 

I agree with you though. That's just two years of amazing defense.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Jose Abreu

[GoSox05]

"We were the best defense in the league, but Jay Cutler ruined it, and now we are ranked 30th."

[Chisoxfn]

Last two years aside, the defense was more than adequate to win superbowls. That's the point. He didn't have to lead the team himself. He had to play decent football and not s*** the bed.

2009 Bears: Cutler was 7-9. He had some bad games but his best receiver was Devin Hester. Forte rushed for

 

2010 Bears: Cutler was 10-5 and won a post-season game to give him 11 wins. Bears made it to NFC championship where they lost to Packers (with Jay out). Knox was the #1 (

 

2011 Bears: Cutler was 7-3, but got injured in a route of the Chargers (5th straight win and during that stretch they averaged 32.2 ppg). Bears looked like an elite team until they were Caleb Hanied out of the playoffs.

 

2012 Bears: Cutler was 10-5 as the starter. Marshall had a beast of a season, although he really had on other receiving weapons. No other receivers with even 500 yards.

 

2013 Bears: Cutler had statistically his best season (Marshall was a beast again and Alshon emerged with Forte playing well). Defense was horrendous and Jay is 5-6. McCown goes 3-2.

 

2014 Bears: Bears are just an outright disaster. Cutler goes 5-10 and defense was beyond pathetic.

 

The only time we had remotely decent defenses, the Bears were playoff teams (which is what you'd expect with a solid QB). The years where we had awful defenses, the types of D's that only a top 3 QB would get us their, well, we didn't make the playoffs and were bad, but not 2 win bad, why, because Jay is good enough to win a few games on his own, but he isn't good enough to go Aaron Rodgers and just win the whole thing. Bottom line, lets fix this football team. I agree if we can get a top flight Andrew Luck type prospect, you get him, but in the meantime, lets find lots of good football players, cause Jay with good players around him (a good defense and special teams, solid offensive weapons), is a QB that can win.

[kitekrazy]

2009 Bears: Cutler was 7-9. He had some bad games but his best receiver was Devin Hester. Forte rushed for

 

2010 Bears: Cutler was 10-5 and won a post-season game to give him 11 wins. Bears made it to NFC championship where they lost to Packers (with Jay out). Knox was the #1 (

 

2011 Bears: Cutler was 7-3, but got injured in a route of the Chargers (5th straight win and during that stretch they averaged 32.2 ppg). Bears looked like an elite team until they were Caleb Hanied out of the playoffs.

 

2012 Bears: Cutler was 10-5 as the starter. Marshall had a beast of a season, although he really had on other receiving weapons. No other receivers with even 500 yards.

 

2013 Bears: Cutler had statistically his best season (Marshall was a beast again and Alshon emerged with Forte playing well). Defense was horrendous and Jay is 5-6. McCown goes 3-2.

 

2014 Bears: Bears are just an outright disaster. Cutler goes 5-10 and defense was beyond pathetic.

 

The only time we had remotely decent defenses, the Bears were playoff teams (which is what you'd expect with a solid QB). The years where we had awful defenses, the types of D's that only a top 3 QB would get us their, well, we didn't make the playoffs and were bad, but not 2 win bad, why, because Jay is good enough to win a few games on his own, but he isn't good enough to go Aaron Rodgers and just win the whole thing. Bottom line, lets fix this football team. I agree if we can get a top flight Andrew Luck type prospect, you get him, but in the meantime, lets find lots of good football players, cause Jay with good players around him (a good defense and special teams, solid offensive weapons), is a QB that can win.

 

Unfortunately you have to be very bad in the NFL at a time when there is a good draft of QBs. Then you need to surround them with quality coaching.

[LittleHurt05]

Unfortunately you have to be very bad in the NFL at a time when there is a good draft of QBs. Then you need to surround them with quality coaching.

 

No one would know that better than a Colts fan