If the Sox arent in the top 10, how do you improve this offseason?

[greg775]

No more "retooling" crap. Acquire as many prospects as possible via trades and draft picks?

That's what I wanted to do a month before the trade deadline when it was obvious we had a s***ty team. Shark, Duke, Robertson, Melky and LaRoche. Should have dealt all of them and re-tooled right there. Idiotic to stand pat. I think we could have moved all of them a couple weeks before the trade deadline for a ton of prospects.

[chitownsportsfan]

Example of someone who's a lotto ticket?

 

Not sure but come Jan a few should be fairly apparent. Take a flyer on a middle infield type and unload at least one of Micah, Sanchez, Saladino -- they are redundant 1 war types for the most part. Choose a guy and trade him that's what the Sox scouts are for.

[professa]

1. Trade Tyler Saladino and Dan Jennings for Yangervis Solarte (Solid 2 WAR player, versatile, doesn't strikeout. Would like Gyro more but not sure if SD is gonna be willing to move him with the way he's performed as of late)

2. Trade Frankie Montas, Tyler Danish, and Tyler Flowers for Jonathan Lucroy (Legit catcher for years to come)

3. Resign Geo Soto 1/2.5M

5. QO to Shark, he accepts, trade Erik Johnson (25% chance). If declines, EJ is in your rotation

6. Sign Tony Sipp 2/8.5M

7. Buyout Alexei's option and resign for 1/6M

 

Lineup vs RHP (vs LHP in Parentheses)

1. Eaton CF

2. Lucroy C

3. Melky LF

4. Abreu 1B

5. LaRoche DH (Trayce Thompson RF)

6. Avi RF (DH)

7. Solarte 3B

8. Ramirez SS

9. Johnson 2B

 

Bench:

1. Soto

2. Sanchez

3. Trayce

4. Shuck

 

Rotation

1. Sale

2. Q

3. Rodon

4. EJ/Shark

5. Danks

 

Bullpen

CL Robertson

SU Jones

SU Petricka

MR Duke

MR Sipp

MR Putnam

MR Webb

Edited September 23, 2015 by professa

[oneofthemikes]

The most likely outcome after the season: Robin gets an extension. KW sticks around. Signs some overpaid veterans who will contribute very little in 2016.

 

My God, I wish I didn't think you are exactly right.

 

I agree with you about clearing out KW, Robin, plus anyone who has anything to do with hitting instruction, and I would probably look at getting rid of Buddy Bell too because player development has been sub par for a while now. But I think that what you wrote is far more likely, because of how loyal Jerry is to people in his organization regardless of what shows up on the field.

[COACH612]

Regardless what Reinsdorf does, Ventura has to go. That's plan number 1. He brings nothing to the team.

Next agenda is to get a catcher. Saladino is fine at 3B and Sanchez may improve. Trade LaRoche for a 12 year old because they will both produce the same results.

[oldsox]

Say goodbye to Alexi, put Saladino at short, at least check out what you can get for Sale, hope for improvement everywhere, tell Anderson to hurry up.

[LDF]

My God, I wish I didn't think you are exactly right.

 

I agree with you about clearing out KW, Robin, plus anyone who has anything to do with hitting instruction, and I would probably look at getting rid of Buddy Bell too because player development has been sub par for a while now. But I think that what you wrote is far more likely, because of how loyal Jerry is to people in his organization regardless of what shows up on the field.

 

i hate to disagree with you in a way. but your statement is not the whole story. you forget of the development of the pitcher the sox have.

[southsider2k5]

Regardless what Reinsdorf does, Ventura has to go. That's plan number 1. He brings nothing to the team.

Next agenda is to get a catcher. Saladino is fine at 3B and Sanchez may improve. Trade LaRoche for a 12 year old because they will both produce the same results.

 

It is interesting to contrast this with other teams situations. For example in Detroit, we just saw a player get sent home for "effort". They are also starting their obviously injured superstar who has a huge contract, in meaningless games.

[Bob Sacamano]

No more "retooling" crap. Acquire as many prospects as possible via trades and draft picks. This team has wayyyy too many holes to fix this offseason. Can they actually think long term for once? As long as KW is in charge, expect another 'retooling' crapfest of an offseason. I have lost all faith in this team to make the right decisions under KW's "guidance".

 

The right moves: Fire KW and Robin and undergo a three year rebuild plan under a new regime (New President and Manager)

 

The most likely outcome after the season: Robin gets an extension. KW sticks around. Signs some overpaid veterans who will contribute very little in 2016.

 

Get in line for season tickets, next year will be different under Robin and KW. Whats the old saying, 5th year together is a charm?

 

I agree with this. Kenny and Robin will still be around. If this team doesn't want to spend money to improve (whether it be a guy like Heyward, Upton, Gordon, the starters etc.) and still decide they want to compete, they have to trade Quintana to do it. There is no way we can improve without doing it. I'm not saying I want him traded because I think he is bad, just that we need to give up value to get value. I'll take a shot at a plan:

 

 

- Offer QO to Samardzija (he accepts)

- Decline Alexei option or play Saladino cheap for a year at SS or when Anderson is ready (re-sign to one year deal plus option; if next season is like this one, he could be a trade candidate with about 1.5 years of control if he is doing good. Also a solid stop gap or Anderson).

- non-tender a contract to Flowers

- Re-sign Alberts

- Let Beckham go

- Trade Quintana (possibly along with Avi and/or Sanchez or Micah depending on who the organization sees as the long-term answer) to bring in either a couple young MLB hitters at position of need or a package of 3-4 top prospects that could all possibly be blocked).

- Insert Johnson into the rotation to replace Samardzija

- Sign Avila or Iannetta ( Avila: left-handed bat, see if he can bounce back and possibly flip in July. Iannetta: right handed but see if he can bounce back and possibly flip)

- Trade LaRoche to the Marlins for Martin Prado (Marlins wanted him last off-season. Could be interested as a one year stop gap. Yankees are also paying some of Prado's contract, but the Sox could also kick in some cash to off-set the difference. One year left on contract, see if we can flip him in July if we're out of it.)

- If they do nothing at 3B, it is basically a battle between Saladino (if Alexei is brought back), Olt, Davidson, and minor league signing.

 

Possible Rotation:

1. Sale

2. Rodon

3. Johnson/Fulmer

4. Danks/Fulmer (if Johnson or Danks are doing terrible, Fulmer comes up if/when he is ready)

5. Kennedy assuming he doesn't get a QO/Norris/possible MLB ready guy in a deal for Q/Fulmer if they bring him north after spring training. (was going to throw Leake in here, but he will be 28 as a free agent with no QO.

 

Lineup:

1. Eaton CF

2. Prado 3B (an MLB ready or already productive 3B from Quintana trade that may hit lower with Alexei or Cabrera in 2 spot)

3. Abreu 1B/DH

4. Cabrera LF/DH

5. Garcia DH

6. Thompson RF (Thompson as backup CF as well. depends on if they trade one I suppose)

7. hopefully an MLB ready or already productive 3B from Quintana trade or Ramirez at SS

8. Iannetta or Avila C

9. Sanchez/Johnson (basically whoever isn't dealt in my scenario above)

 

Bench:

Soto re-signed (possible flip in July)

Garcia IF

Shuck OF

minor league battle guy in spring training or Saladino if there is a new 3B and Alexei brought back. Or with Prado's (and even L. Garcia's) versatility, you have an extra reliever.

 

Possible players to sell in July:

Ramirez

Avila/Iannetta

Prado

Soto

Cabrera (might have to eat some cash here)

Robertson

A 5th starter signee possibly doing good

other relievers

 

This is more of a rebuilding patchwork team though. Personally, I'd rather they took an approach like this. Sure it may suck next year, but we may be able to flip a few guys at the deadline and wait for some money to be off the books to try again in the 2016 off-season.

 

PS: I know many will not agree with this, but I think it needs to be done.

Edited September 23, 2015 by soxfan2014

[Y2Jimmy0]

That's what I wanted to do a month before the trade deadline when it was obvious we had a s***ty team. Shark, Duke, Robertson, Melky and LaRoche. Should have dealt all of them and re-tooled right there. Idiotic to stand pat. I think we could have moved all of them a couple weeks before the trade deadline for a ton of prospects.

 

 

It doesn't really make sense though. Jerry Reinsdorf is the owner. They are going to win like 77-78 games. That's a 4-5 game improvement over last year and quite frankly, they overachieved with the offense they've had and the bad defense. I don't think it's crazy to think they can patch a couple of spots and win 84-85 games next year with the pitching staff they have. I'd roll with a front 3 of Sale, Q, and Rodon. I'd go with Robertson, Jones, and Montas at the back end of the bullpen. Shark will be gone. Nobody wants LaRoche or Duke. Finding a long-term option at 3B would be great and an upgrade at C with Flowers as the backup would be nice too. They have great young pitching under control and they don't have any crazy bad contracts that will hamper them long-term.

[he gone.]

If we truly are entering year 2 of a 3 year window like management believes? Then I say we have to try and trade for an Arenado or someone damn good at some position by using our excess pitching assets in Montas, Fulmer, etc. I think we'd have a capable rotation with Sale, Q, Rodon, Johnson, Danks if you were to build around it by trading some of our young pitching arms. We will also need to add defense in the outfield. Best way to do that is to take one of the corners and stick them at DH. This leaves the problem of dead weight at a bench spot (LaRoche, though how nice of a surprise would it be if he did his career averages next year), but that dead spot should be fine with Saladino taking care of the whole infield as a backup. OF would have to be someone who could cover ground.

 

With trading assets we could have a decent 3B or C. We could sign an OF who has the focus of Defense and covering ground. And we could sign a Zobrist. That is the band-aid.

 

 

The other choice, and the more I think about it, is my choice. I really just don't have the faith that this team can turn it around. So instead of band-aid'ing the situation. I think you stay put this offseason. Pray for a LaRoche bounce back. Pray that Garcia finds it. Plug with a Catcher. Maybe move around a minor league prospect or two. And then put everybody on the market. Everybody. Sale, Abreu, Eaton, Melky, Roberston ... get prospects. Lick wounds. Build a team that makes sense and in 2-3 years hope that we have a team that is built around Rodon, Anderson, Fulmer, etc.

 

My reason for this choice ... in all reality? Defense. It's just not there. No OF defense, No MI defense, No speed. I think the pitching is championship worthy.

[bjm676]

exercise option on Alexei. I don't think their are better options just yet.

Resign Albers

Only free agents i would go after - either Cespedes or Heyward.

Trade for a catcher and third baseman.

I could see Chris Beck, Tyler Danish, etc. being included in some kind of package.

[lasttriptotulsa]

- Trade LaRoche to the Marlins for Martin Prado (Marlins wanted him last off-season. Could be interested as a one year stop gap. Yankees are also paying some of Prado's contract, but the Sox could also kick in some cash to off-set the difference. One year left on contract, see if we can flip him in July if we're out of it.)

 

Why on Earth would the Marlins trade Prado for LaRoche?

[nitetrain8601]

Honestly, the Soc need to clean house outside of Abreu and Sale. Even then, I might see what I can fetch for Sale. Let KW go. I'd also let Hahn go and fire Robin.

 

Trade Quintana, Eaton, Johnson, and everyone outside of Abreu and Sale, and load up on prospects. I don't want to hear about we don't have a spot open in the OF or infield. This while team pretty much sucks.

[bmags]

No way we could get Arenado.

[GGajewski18]

Honestly, the Soc need to clean house outside of Abreu and Sale. Even then, I might see what I can fetch for Sale. Let KW go. I'd also let Hahn go and fire Robin.

 

Trade Quintana, Eaton, Johnson, and everyone outside of Abreu and Sale, and load up on prospects. I don't want to hear about we don't have a spot open in the OF or infield. This while team pretty much sucks.

 

If you're gonna do that, you might as well blow the whole thing up because by the time the Sox would be ready to compete, Abreu & Sale will be older and that much closer to free agency.

[BlackSox13]

Would love to see a full scale rebuild but with Reinsdorf being 79, it is not going to happen. We're going to hear more of the three year window/ rebuild on the fly PR bulls*** just like we've been hearing. Sucks, but that's the reality of it.

[OmarComing25]

If you're going with a multi-year rebuild you might as well trade Sale and Abreu. There'd be no point in keeping them if by the time we'll be planning on being good again their contracts are up.

[AlSoxfan]

I thought Hahn did a pretty good job last off season as did most others. It seems though we have more holes to fill than we had previously. Our bullpen is much better than it was, so we have that but I'll take that with a grain of salt. Relief pitchers are often to hard to predict. The one thing I don't think Hahn even gave a thought to was defense. My favorite saying is "Pitching, defense and the three run home-run". We've got pitching but defense is about the worst in all of baseball an only 1 guy who can hit homers with any consistency, an thats not saying anything about the 2 guys on base needed to make it a 3 run homer.

Steve Adams was asked what the biggest needs were for the Sox this winter, his response was as many have said "Add a real catcher and figure out second/third base. Improve the terrible defense. I'll admit I got a chuckle out of get a REAL catcher.

How we improve without a top ten pick should be the same as how we improve with one. Many have said "dump the whole team and start from scratch", while I might agree, I don't see them doing that. Which leaves us patching holes via trades and a couple FA signings. I'm sure Hahn knows as well as we do what is needed. I do enjoy playing GM but at this point I'm stumped. Unless we trade from our strength..pitching, I fear we'll continue to be a bad team. I think we need to start with defense an go from there.

[Lip Man 1]

On paper the moves the Sox made were well regarded by baseball people (not just fans) across the board.

 

SOMETHING happens when those guys put on the uniform however and this has been happening for years...you can go all the way back to David Wells.

 

There is something about the front office / culture of the franchise that is at least in some way responsible for this happening.

 

Until that changes, until new people are brought in to the front office and individuals are held accountable for results by their jobs being on the line, you are going to see more of this stuff happening.

 

The Sox have a historical baseline long enough now to tell me it's chronic under the individuals responsible for running the franchise.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Mark

[Y2Jimmy0]

On paper the moves the Sox made were well regarded by baseball people (not just fans) across the board.

 

SOMETHING happens when those guys put on the uniform however and this has been happening for years...you can go all the way back to David Wells.

 

There is something about the front office / culture of the franchise that is at least in some way responsible for this happening.

 

Until that changes, until new people are brought in to the front office and individuals are held accountable for results by their jobs being on the line, you are going to see more of this stuff happening.

 

The Sox have a historical baseline long enough now to tell me it's chronic under the individuals responsible for running the franchise.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Mark

 

 

It worked just fine in 2005.

[Flash Tizzle]

It worked just fine in 2005.

Yes, once it all cane together......10 years ago.

 

What's sad to me is Minnesota last made the playoffs in 2010, conpletely dismantled their team, and in five years now are in a position to be in the playoffs. We've been trying to compete about every season since 2009, and are no better for it.

[southsider2k5]

On paper the moves the Sox made were well regarded by baseball people (not just fans) across the board.

 

SOMETHING happens when those guys put on the uniform however and this has been happening for years...you can go all the way back to David Wells.

 

There is something about the front office / culture of the franchise that is at least in some way responsible for this happening.

 

Until that changes, until new people are brought in to the front office and individuals are held accountable for results by their jobs being on the line, you are going to see more of this stuff happening.

 

The Sox have a historical baseline long enough now to tell me it's chronic under the individuals responsible for running the franchise.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Mark

 

 

 

Can every thread not turn into complaining about Jerry Reinsdorf? Even a completely unrelated thread about Sale and the strikeout thread has to turn into that. It gets old and ruins any discussion.

[OmarComing25]

Can every thread not turn into complaining about Jerry Reinsdorf? Even a completely unrelated thread about Sale and the strikeout thread has to turn into that. It gets old and ruins any discussion.

Could not agree more

[Balta1701]

It worked just fine in 2005.

I would argue this team has spent the last 10 seasons doing very much the opposite of what helped assemble that team in 2005. They were built through trades, drafting, and free agency...and in virtually every case the White Sox acquired someone who was undervalued. There was almost no one on that roster that they paid full price to acquire in either trade or free agency. Contrast that with what we did last offseason as an example, where we paid high prices for free agents to outbid people rather than looking for value additions and you might have a formula for why we've struggled to replicate that season.