If you traded Sale to Dodgers……...

[Lip Man 1]

At least you admit there is no logic to your statements today. A rather large amount of inaccuracies.

 

Not totally, the advice I was given by some about certain individuals appears to be right on the money.

 

I wrote this piece about my feelings towards the Sox on August 25th, my 60th birthday for Sox Net. If you missed it, you may want to read it:

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/soxnet/2015/08/l...rthday-to-mark/

 

I stand by my comments and my feelings towards the White Sox.

 

Mark

Edited September 24, 2015 by Lip Man 1

[Dick Allen]

Not totally, the advice I was given by some about certain individuals appears to be right on the money.

 

I wrote this piece about my feelings towards the Sox on August 25th, my 60th birthday for Sox Net. If you missed it, you may want to read it:

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/soxnet/2015/08/l...rthday-to-mark/

 

I stand by my comments and my feelings towards anyone including you.

 

Mark

I find this to be a personal attack, but that's OK, it's from someone who thinks Dye, Iguchi, Pods, AJ, Loaisa, Contreras, Garcia, Quentin, Abreu, Eaton, all became horrible after they put on a White Sox uniform, and it has to have something to do with Kenny Williams or Buddy Bell.

[Lip Man 1]

I find this to be a personal attack, but that's OK, it's from someone who thinks Dye, Iguchi, Pods, AJ, Loaisa, Contreras, Garcia, Quentin, Abreu, Eaton, all became horrible after they put on a White Sox uniform, and it has to have something to do with Kenny Williams or Buddy Bell.

 

The Sox have had some individual success stories no question. Now as far as the franchise, as far as sustaining success?? Far different story isn't it.

 

Sorry if you consider it personal, that was not my intention, I only know what I was told and never mentioned anyone specifically. But I do find it interesting that you feel that way considering you brought up my mental health. Very interesting.

 

I suggest we both drop this matter before things get out of hand.

 

Mark

Edited September 24, 2015 by Lip Man 1

[southsider2k5]

What is a player supposed to say? Quotes to the media mean absolutely nothing to me? Is he supposed to say he wants to be on a winning team only? Then the media and fans would turn to him during times like this and say he doesn't want to be a good teammate. There's no winning saying anything other than what he has said. I could really care less what Sale wants. Not be armchair GM here, but I just think you trade from your excess to make up for your areas you are weak in. If it's Sale? Okay. If its Rodon, Okay. If its Quintana, okay. But you better fix more than one position with this trade. Trading and fixing just catcher when giving up your most prized possession doesnt work for me.

 

Jeff Samardjiza made it very clear he wasn't interested in signing.

[he gone.]

Jeff Samardjiza made it very clear he wasn't interested in signing.

 

I'd say the opposite. He may it about as clear as muddy water ..... the only thing he's made clear is that he wanted to test the FA market...

 

“You go out and step in the outfield to shag, or pitching, or whatever you’re doing outside, you take a deep breath and it smells like I’m on the Valparaiso High School field playing.

 

“There is just a comfort level to being in this area. I always have to show up well because I have a lot of people in the stands that are here expecting a lot of me.

 

Yeah, that is absolutely something that is on my list; I love it here,” Samardzija said

 

Even this quote.. he was talking about how he wanted to try free agency but basically wanted to stay on the Sox if they could match the numbers ...

 

Sometimes you have to do that in a month. It's important for me to be able to be on this team all year and really get to know all the players and what the future holds is exciting. I've been pretty adamant about being a free agent. It's really something you shoot for. You are so close to it and you really want to experience it, but like I said before, when the situation is right, it's right. When the numbers are right, the numbers are right."

 

 

[Dick Allen]

I'd say the opposite. He may it about as clear as muddy water ..... the only thing he's made clear is that he wanted to test the FA market...

 

“You go out and step in the outfield to shag, or pitching, or whatever you’re doing outside, you take a deep breath and it smells like I’m on the Valparaiso High School field playing.

 

“There is just a comfort level to being in this area. I always have to show up well because I have a lot of people in the stands that are here expecting a lot of me.

 

Yeah, that is absolutely something that is on my list; I love it here,” Samardzija said

 

Even this quote.. he was talking about how he wanted to try free agency but basically wanted to stay on the Sox if they could match the numbers ...

 

Sometimes you have to do that in a month. It's important for me to be able to be on this team all year and really get to know all the players and what the future holds is exciting. I've been pretty adamant about being a free agent. It's really something you shoot for. You are so close to it and you really want to experience it, but like I said before, when the situation is right, it's right. When the numbers are right, the numbers are right."

The proof is in the pudding. Sale signed one of the most team friendly extensions in baseball, Samardzija didn't negotiate.

[BlackSox13]

What is a player supposed to say? Quotes to the media mean absolutely nothing to me? Is he supposed to say he wants to be on a winning team only? Then the media and fans would turn to him during times like this and say he doesn't want to be a good teammate. There's no winning saying anything other than what he has said. I could really care less what Sale wants. Not be armchair GM here, but I just think you trade from your excess to make up for your areas you are weak in. If it's Sale? Okay. If its Rodon, Okay. If its Quintana, okay. But you better fix more than one position with this trade. Trading and fixing just catcher when giving up your most prized possession doesnt work for me.

I will take Sale's word and contract for it. Should I trust in Sale's word or a pessimistic Sox fan speaking on Sale's behalf? I'm not taking a cheap shot here but LipMan is speculating that Sale is unhappy despite what Sale himself has said. Has pessimism become so pathetic for Sox fans that fans now speak on the players behalf?

[shakes]

When discussing possible Sale trades everyone seems to leave out something. Namely what does Sale want?

 

I've never heard or seen anything indicating he wants out...yet.

 

But keep in mind when the season ends in two weeks he'll have five and a half years of service in the big leagues...and still won't have ever pitched in a post season game.

 

That has got to be bothering a guy as competitive as he is.

 

Sooner or later (probably sooner) if the Sox continue to look like buffoons on a baseball diamond Sale (or his agent) are going to cross a line and say "I'm leaving when my deal is up so trade me for what you can and get me out of here."

 

Mark

 

To be blunt....who cares? What Sale wants isn't going to drive what the Sox should do, and if it does they have the wrong people in charge. Whether or not Sale wins in his career should be about #500 on the list of priorities for how the Sox approach their future.

 

Honestly, it is probably time to consider trading him. They have so many holes that can't be filled by their farm that FA is the only way and I think the front office has proven, time and again, they are not good enough to do it through FA.

 

People are saying trading Sale is the nuclear option. Nope, trade Sale and Q. That is the nuclear option and I really think they should consider it. They are that far away right now. Teams like LAD, Boston, Cubs, Rangers are all contending, have deep farms, and are looking for pitching. Take advantage of it. Developing pitching is the one thing they are good at, but I see no other way they are going to fill 5-6 holes in position players.

 

 

 

[ChiSoxFanMike]

To be blunt....who cares? What Sale wants isn't going to drive what the Sox should do, and if it does they have the wrong people in charge. Whether or not Sale wins in his career should be about #500 on the list of priorities for how the Sox approach their future.

 

Honestly, it is probably time to consider trading him. They have so many holes that can't be filled by their farm that FA is the only way and I think the front office has proven, time and again, they are not good enough to do it through FA.

 

People are saying trading Sale is the nuclear option. Nope, trade Sale and Q. That is the nuclear option and I really think they should consider it. They are that far away right now. Teams like LAD, Boston, Cubs, Rangers are all contending, have deep farms, and are looking for pitching. Take advantage of it. Developing pitching is the one thing they are good at, but I see no other way they are going to fill 5-6 holes in position players.

If they trade both Sale and Quintana, then there is no reason to keep guys like Abreu, Eaton, etc either.

 

In other words, if Sale and Q are both traded, then the Sox would have to blow everything up and start from scratch. I'd keep Rodon, Fulmer, and Anderson if they got to that point, but everyone else would be available.

[southsider2k5]

If they trade both Sale and Quintana, then there is no reason to keep guys like Abreu, Eaton, etc either.

 

In other words, if Sale and Q are both traded, then the Sox would have to blow everything up and start from scratch. I'd keep Rodon, Fulmer, and Anderson if they got to that point, but everyone else would be available.

 

If they trade both Sale and Quintana they might as well move the entire organization with them.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

If they trade both Sale and Quintana they might as well move the entire organization with them.

 

Imagine how bad the attendance would be if they did blow everything up? It's not good now (15,000 or so a game I think), and that's with stars like Sale, Abreu, etc still on the team. If those guys left, I wouldn't be surprised if the attendance went under 10,000 a game. They'd have to give away tickets most likely.

[Harry Chappas]

Stars don't bring fans, winning brings fans.

 

Stars pitch once every five games or fail 2 out of every three times they come to the plate which they only do four times a game.

 

Prolific home run hitters hit them once every 3 or 4 games.

 

IF you go to 8 games a year chances aer said pitcher will pitch once maybe twice and a prolific home run hitter will hit 2 home runs.

[Lip Man 1]

 

Imagine how bad the attendance would be if they did blow everything up? It's not good now (15,000 or so a game I think), and that's with stars like Sale, Abreu, etc still on the team. If those guys left, I wouldn't be surprised if the attendance went under 10,000 a game. They'd have to give away tickets most likely.

 

With all the discounts and special codes aren't they basically doing that now?

 

Let's put this this way (and I'm not necessarily advocating a complete tear down) how have the last nine years of "rebuilding while contending" worked?

 

Mark

[GGajewski18]

Back on topic. If the Sox traded Sale to the Dodgers, I'd ask for Puig, Urias, and Barnes.

 

I still would be hesitant on that deal.

Edited September 25, 2015 by SoxPride18

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Back on topic. If the Sox traded Sale to the Dodgers, I'd ask for Puig, Urias, and Barnes.

 

I still would be hesitant on that deal.

Seager is a must for me as well if Sale were to be moved.

 

That kid is a stud.

[Flash Tizzle]

With all the discounts and special codes aren't they basically doing that now?

 

Let's put this this way (and I'm not necessarily advocating a complete tear down) how have the last nine years of "rebuilding while contending" worked?

 

Mark

And it's the one damn thing we haven't tried to build a contending team. It's like this Boogeyman concept with White Sox fans because of all the terrible things (attendance, irrelevance, not confident in management) we're already experiencing now. How would we know what would happen.....unless it happens? .

 

 

[southsider2k5]

And it's the one damn thing we haven't tried to build a contending team. It's like this Boogeyman concept with White Sox fans because of all the terrible things (attendance, irrelevance, not confident in management) we're already experiencing now. How would we know what would happen.....unless it happens? .

 

Your underlying assumption here is that it can't get worse. I feel that isn't accurate at all.

[Flash Tizzle]

Your underlying assumption here is that it can't get worse. I feel that isn't accurate at all.

Attendance will get worse, that's guaranteed. But by how much? I don't believe we'll ever fall below Tampa Bay, who to date has drawn 500,000 less fans than us. I just hate this idea that we're almost forced to compete every season because people (maybe management is included) feel that's what draws out the fans. Winning draws them out, and if we had to forsake several seasons to try a new approach -- why not? If it doesn't work we can easily get back to the mediocre level we are now.

 

Let me ask you this, what are you afraid of? If you feel they're not up to it, I'd rather we face those fears and find out. What I fear is it'll be 2020 and we'll be here scratching our heads having the same damn discussion. Think of it this way, would you have cared now what happened in 2010 if they just dismantled their team like Minnesota? Who by the way is the competing for a WC spot now.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Flash Tizzle

[southsider2k5]

Attendance will get worse, that's guaranteed. But by how much? I don't believe we'll ever fall below Tampa Bay, who to date has drawn 500,000 less fans than us. I just hate this idea that we're almost forced to compete every season because people (maybe management is included) feel that's what draws out the fans. Winning draws them out, and if we had to forsake several seasons to try a new approach -- why not? If it doesn't work we can easily get back to the mediocre level we are now.

 

Let me ask you this, what are you afraid of? If you feel they're not up to it, I'd rather we face those fears and find out. What I fear is it'll be 2020 and we'll be here scratching our heads having the same damn discussion. Think of it this way, would you have cared now what happened in 2010 if they just dismantled their team like Minnesota? Who by the way is the competing for a WC spot now.

 

Again, a lot of assumptions going on here. Kansas City is the new love around MLB. Have we all forgotten they hadn't been to the playoffs since 1986 before that? The Pirates went from 1993 to 2013 without a single winning season, let alone a playoff cycle.

 

This isn't some foolproof thing where you suck for a few years and then make the playoffs. If you blow the franchise up, not only do you lose what's left of the fanbase, but we could still be scratching our heads in 2020 and wondering why we are still a 70 win team after half a dozen awful years, and not have any hope to show for it.

[Balta1701]

Again, a lot of assumptions going on here. Kansas City is the new love around MLB. Have we all forgotten they hadn't been to the playoffs since 1986 before that? The Pirates went from 1993 to 2013 without a single winning season, let alone a playoff cycle.

 

This isn't some foolproof thing where you suck for a few years and then make the playoffs. If you blow the franchise up, not only do you lose what's left of the fanbase, but we could still be scratching our heads in 2020 and wondering why we are still a 70 win team after half a dozen awful years, and not have any hope to show for it.

So how exactly are you going to argue that continuing to "go for it" every year isn't just as likely to leave us scratching our heads in 2020 and wondering how we had a dozen awful years? Because that doesn't seem like a major threat to me any more.

[Eminor3rd]

The bar for WC contention, every year, is simply a timely six-week stretch of hot baseball. The scorched-Earth rebuild is a relic of the past, friends, at least as long as the current playoff structure/CBA holds.

[southsider2k5]

So how exactly are you going to argue that continuing to "go for it" every year isn't just as likely to leave us scratching our heads in 2020 and wondering how we had a dozen awful years? Because that doesn't seem like a major threat to me any more.

 

One failure completely destroys the fanbase. One erodes the fanbase. But if you are OK with a couple of decades of Royals or Pirates type of ball being the downside, that is your prerogative.

[Soxfest]

One failure completely destroys the fanbase. One erodes the fanbase. But if you are OK with a couple of decades of Royals or Pirates type of ball being the downside, that is your prerogative.

Already at a decade

[OmarComing25]

Already at a decade

Haha not even close. The Pirates didn't have a winning season for 20 years. The Royals never came close to the playoffs over their period of futility. In the past decade we've made the playoffs and came very close three other times.

Edited September 25, 2015 by OmarComing25

[bmags]

The bar for WC contention, every year, is simply a timely six-week stretch of hot baseball. The scorched-Earth rebuild is a relic of the past, friends, at least as long as the current playoff structure/CBA holds.

 

Then why are we seeing the teams we are in the playoffs?