LDF Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 03:01 AM) Only those who think of trading them. Smarj IMO does not have any impressive stats yet he would be expensive for the production you would get out of him. The Cubs didn't feel that way either. i think that ship has past a long time ago. i think back to before the ASG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANS Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 07:24 PM) The fact Robin is still managing blows my mind. Name one other manager that has kept their job with that type of performance over a three year period when their organization is "going to compete" for the playoffs. The Sox don't have a roster full of crap. Sure, there is mostly mediocre to average players, but clearly there's a pattern of players vastly underperforming here once they get here. In my mind that points to the coaching staff being unable to get them to perform at the level of their career norms. Hell, look at how awful the Sox have looked the last few years coming out of Spring Training compared to other teams during the first week of the season. This team wiffs at the fundamentals of baseball. And there's a lot to blame on the FO too. I give Hahn a pass for the most part, because I can't see him being fully in charge of the decision making while still living in KW's shadow. JR's undying loyalty and KW's stubbornness have slowly killed this franchise and produced the on-field product we have suffer through watching night in and night out. I don't see a massive amount of changes until JR kicks the bucket. careful you can't complain about the almighty JR around these parts..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Dick is one of the "good fans." Why can't you all be more like Dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 01:41 PM) Counting the record the last few years would be like holding John Fox responsible if the Bears start out 0-3. They ran out of gas in 2012, it was all they could do. Youk was cashed, Sale was cashed. In 2013 Paulie was hurt, the people's choice at that time behind the plate showed why he was a back up. The Sox traded away pieces at the deadline. Last year was a rebuilding year. No need to get depressed about that record. This year, yeah, it was disappointed, but they are closer than they were a couple of years ago, and plan to get closer in the winter. The difference between good and bad can be a rather slim line. Take the Cubs, what if Houston drafted Bryant? What if Samardzija accepted the extension? What if Arrietta was the same pitcher or slightly better than he was in Baltimore? DA, we are in complete agreement here. Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (captain54 @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 08:49 PM) There were improvements that needed to be made after the 2012 season, for instance. "How did we blow a 3 game lead with 2weeks to play". " how can we fix it"? Instead the Sox proceeded to have one of the worst seasons in modern history. The numbers don't lie. 67 games BELOW AVERAGE since late 2012. Think about it. That's a lot games to make up over 3 yrs to be even mediocre. If the Sox FO were serious about turning things around, we would see a makeover ala Chicago Blackhawks. A fan favorite loyal member of that organization (Savard) was let go in favor of a bonafide solid hockey man. The status quo wasn't working One more thing. If it would have been me, I would have launched both KW and Ozzie late in the 2011 for carrying on how they did and turning this franchise into a children's playground and laughingstock. And Cooper would have been launched this year for chiding the fans on attendance. In essence, insulting the paying customer So go for it. Have faith in an organization that is attempting to turn things around with the same rum dums that produced a 67 game under .500 record over the last three years The Hawks have 3 of the 12 or so best players in the NHL. That has more to do with their success than anything Rocky Wirtz or John McDonough has done. It comes down to talent. It always does. The White Sox don't currently have the young hitters that other teams have. They have tremendous young pitching though with more on the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 02:41 PM) The Hawks have 3 of the 12 or so best players in the NHL. That has more to do with their success than anything Rocky Wirtz or John McDonough has done. It comes down to talent. It always does. The White Sox don't currently have the young hitters that other teams have. They have tremendous young pitching though with more on the way. i disagree with this b/c of one important thing. getting an owner who wants to win, to make the hard decision to take talent in the FO than of loyalty to the person. lastly, insist on getting the quality players for the roster and they go out, make another hard decision and fire a great hawk idol and hire a great coach. this all comes from the owner. now for the sox, the changes need to come from a huge change in philosophy and screw the loyalty of those homers that can't do their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 08:41 AM) The Hawks have 3 of the 12 or so best players in the NHL. That has more to do with their success than anything Rocky Wirtz or John McDonough has done. It comes down to talent. It always does. The White Sox don't currently have the young hitters that other teams have. They have tremendous young pitching though with more on the way. And two of those guys were the first and third picks overall. The one time the White Sox got the third pick, they got a guy who has superstar potential and is already on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 01:56 PM) And two of those guys were the first and third picks overall. The one time the White Sox got the third pick, they got a guy who has superstar potential and is already on this team. good post but you missed an important part. without this, the sox will look for another player at #3. they had a change in the ideas of making it work and the salary cap. dealing with his adviser who later became his agent. 3yrs ago, that would not have happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 09:04 AM) good post but you missed an important part. without this, the sox will look for another player at #3. they had a change in the ideas of making it work and the salary cap. dealing with his adviser who later became his agent. 3yrs ago, that would not have happen. Let's be honest. The Blackhawks are where they are today because they completely sucked for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) Let's be honest. The Blackhawks are where they are today because they completely sucked for a very long time. wow...... i really don't know about that. granted sucking for a long time, really made everyone in the org wanting to make changes. however it all happen when the owner passed. i hate to say or bring that up, am i being insensitive to his memory and to the family. that is what i am trying not to do. but lets be honest, it started for the best with rocky took over, got rid of the good ole boy network. no more the idea of having a GM whose only job was to go out with the owner for a liquid lunch stay for a liquid dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 09:15 AM) wow...... i really don't know about that. granted sucking for a long time, really made everyone in the org wanting to make changes. however it all happen when the owner passed. i hate to say or bring that up, am i being insensitive to his memory and to the family. that is what i am trying not to do. but lets be honest, it started for the best with rocky took over, got rid of the good ole boy network. no more the idea of having a GM whose only job was to go out with the owner for a liquid lunch stay for a liquid dinner. It started for the best when the drafted Kane and Toews back to back years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 03:18 PM) It started for the best when the drafted Kane and Toews back to back years. lets say we disagree. i will say it started with a gm and then the hiring of Q and chg of gm again. of course great drafting. but that is after the foundation was in place. now i need to back track on $$ Bill. remember he never had a crime including any driving violations. he had a driver. next all the great stuff he did for fans that never came out. stuff that many never knew who he was during the hawks games. he was a walking PR person himself, and he never told the person who he was when he was talking to them ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Since it seems that right-handed hitters don't have extreme split stats against right-handed pitchers while left-handed hitters have extreme splits against lefties (so it seems), wouldn't it make more sense to try to load up on right-handed hitters than left-handed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain54 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 09:08 AM) Let's be honest. The Blackhawks are where they are today because they completely sucked for a very long time. That's only a small part of the picture.. Pure speculation, but highly doubtful $$$ Bill would have signed Hossa and Keith to 12 and 13yrs deals, respectively… Another perspective.. Rocky stepped in and brought back Bobby Hull, Mikita, and Tony O as ambassadors.. Reinsdorf's version of that would have been to make Bobby Hull the head coach, Mikita the GM, and Tony O the goaltender coach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (captain54 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 04:19 PM) That's only a small part of the picture.. Pure speculation, but highly doubtful $$$ Bill would have signed Hossa and Keith to 12 and 13yrs deals, respectively… Another perspective.. Rocky stepped in and brought back Bobby Hull, Mikita, and Tony O as ambassadors.. Reinsdorf's version of that would have been to make Bobby Hull the head coach, Mikita the GM, and Tony O the goaltender coach... not a bad group compare to that european coach to be head coach or was it asst??? but i think Stan the man would be coach and the gm Pierre Pilote and the golden jet as president. would espo be a good goaltending coach or glenn hull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (captain54 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 11:19 AM) That's only a small part of the picture.. Pure speculation, but highly doubtful $$$ Bill would have signed Hossa and Keith to 12 and 13yrs deals, respectively… Another perspective.. Rocky stepped in and brought back Bobby Hull, Mikita, and Tony O as ambassadors.. Reinsdorf's version of that would have been to make Bobby Hull the head coach, Mikita the GM, and Tony O the goaltender coach... Kane and Toews are not a small part of the picture. They are the freaking franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 11:37 AM) Kane and Toews are not a small part of the picture. They are the freaking franchise. They certainly are a large part but two guys alone can't win championships either regardless of how great they are. Even MJ and Scottie needed some help. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 12:50 PM) They certainly are a large part but two guys alone can't win championships either regardless of how great they are. Even MJ and Scottie needed some help. Mark And without them, they have no chance at all. That is the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 12:51 PM) And without them, they have no chance at all. That is the difference. Completely agree. I'd argue that Toews/Keith are the two most important people in the franchise. They could "live" without Kane but I agree with the premise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (captain54 @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 01:28 PM) Since the Sox fade down the stretch in 2012, (where they went 4-11, from 9-19 till the end of the season).. a terrible offensive slump and starters ERA in the 5's was their doom.. Combined record to date over the course of roughly three seasons: 212-279… 67 games under .500 Understood that the win pct. has gone up since the end of 2012, but comparing 2014 to 2015, we are only taking about 3 wins… the nightmarish 2013 record will skew this, but we have an average seasonal record over 3 seasons of roughly 70-92 Now I challenge anyone to name me one organization that puts this type of product on the field, and makes NO major changes concerning the powers that be that have engineered this mess over three seasons…. Underperforming players? (By the way, Rongey's favorite catch phrase).. Somepne in authority has put these under performers on the roster, on a consistent basis for a while now.. yet.. no responsibility.. no accountability.. The Royals? Yost and Moore were at the helm of some pretty bad Royal teams and now they've been the best team in the AL the last 2 years. I know circumstances are a little different as they've had underperforming youngsters while we have had underperforming vets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 25, 2015 -> 05:51 PM) And without them, they have no chance at all. That is the difference. what is it with today. everyone is literally taking comment and blowing it up. 2 offensive player are great, but in this.. team concept of hockey, which position is more important. 1st line 2nd line 3rd line 4th line how bout the defenders... 1 with the second etc.... or how bout the goalie???? a team in hockey needs to be well balance and players needs to know their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 QUOTE (captain54 @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 06:28 PM) Since the Sox fade down the stretch in 2012, (where they went 4-11, from 9-19 till the end of the season).. a terrible offensive slump and starters ERA in the 5's was their doom.. Combined record to date over the course of roughly three seasons: 212-279… 67 games under .500 Understood that the win pct. has gone up since the end of 2012, but comparing 2014 to 2015, we are only taking about 3 wins… the nightmarish 2013 record will skew this, but we have an average seasonal record over 3 seasons of roughly 70-92 Now I challenge anyone to name me one organization that puts this type of product on the field, and makes NO major changes concerning the powers that be that have engineered this mess over three seasons…. Underperforming players? (By the way, Rongey's favorite catch phrase).. Somepne in authority has put these under performers on the roster, on a consistent basis for a while now.. yet.. no responsibility.. no accountability.. nfl steelers, dolphins, cowboys. nhl mont, bos, nyi, edm oilers etc.... nba bulls, lakers, det, ny, etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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