John McDonough

[Thad Bosley]

Yes, having a 6 lane super highway, THREE mass trains lines with an exit no more than 2 blocks from the park, 7000 parking spaces as low as $10, and multiple points of street access really hurt a club.

That would all come in handy if the product on the field was worth coming out to watch and the fans were coming out in droves to do so. Unfortunately, that would hardly describe the experience the White Sox have offered their fans in recent years. As always with this argument, all roads lead back to the one and only solution - winning. Stop with the making-the-playoffs-once-a-decade routine, or the occasional seven-year hiatus from any playoff appearance at all that we are currently mired in, and give our long suffering fans what they richly deserve: sustained success. Novel concept, I know, but dare I say, it's worth a shot!

[Hatchetman]

IMO it all comes down to winning. Not just 85 wins and hoping for a wild card. I mean a damn good team that wins more than 90 games for 2-3 years in a row. The park would be packed.

 

 

[TaylorStSox]

The united center is Ina sea of parking lots and has worse surroundings than million dollar homes in Bridgeport. And no tailgating.

The west loop? The most thriving neighborhood in the city? When's the last time you went down Madison at night?

[ewokpelts]

The west loop? The most thriving neighborhood in the city? When's the last time you went down Madison at night?

I work in the west loop. And at night. Trust me, no one is by Madison and damen at night unless the uc is open.

[justBLAZE]

The united center is Ina sea of parking lots and has worse surroundings than million dollar homes in Bridgeport. And no tailgating.

 

But Bulls and Hawks are not competing with another franchise for the fan.

[TaylorStSox]

I work in the west loop. And at night. Trust me, no one is by Madison and damen at night unless the uc is open.

So go 6 blocks east of the UC and it's packed with great bars and the best restaurants the city has to offer. The UC is a half mile from the trendiest neighborhood in the city. BTW, I actually live close to the neighborhood. It's 2015, not 2010.

Edited September 28, 2015 by TaylorStSox

[Chisoxfn]

But Bulls and Hawks are not competing with another franchise for the fan.

Those are also sports that sell out at around 20K seats so you don't need near the draw. Plus, to me the in-game fan experience at both are better then a baseball game. That might be because I've been spoiled and attended tons of baseball games where as I rarely go to a live NHL / NBA game (maybe once a year, if that), so when I do, it is a real treat and I get a lot more enjoyment. Of course MLB has been sliding down my list of favorite sports since I had a family. Games are just too long for me to follow as much as I do basketball / football (yes, football games are just as long, if not longer, but once a week is manageable).

 

Right now if you asked me my favorite sports, I'd probably go NFL / NBA / MLB in that order. 10 years ago, it would have been MLB / NBA / NFL and 5 years ago MLB / NFL / NBA.

[Hatchetman]

Now that I have a family, an MLB game is the only one I can afford to take them to!

[LDF]

Now that I have a family, an MLB game is the only one I can afford to take them to!

 

the best family outing for family quality time is going to games.... games of any kind, nhl, nba chi white sox and yeah even the bears.

 

it doesn't matter how many games you go to, just make it a best family outings you can make. trust me, now in my old time, i can remember the good time.

 

 

[Thad Bosley]

Why is that a detriment to the Sox, but not the Cubs?

Why is the Sox' ballpark location a detriment to their franchise, while the Cubs' location is not? Did you really ask this question? WOW! Everyone knows you are an unabashed apologist for Sox ownership and management, but to somehow even remotely try and level set the Wrigleyville experience surrounding a Cubs game with the experience Sox fans get in good, 'ol Bridgeport, well, like I said - WOW! Now I've heard it all!

 

Keep in mind, though, that so-called "experience" only matters in the down years, when your team isn't winning. You can't win all the time, and so when you don't, it's nice to have something else to draw you out to the park, be it the in-park experience or near outside one. The Cubs have both in spades; meanwhile, our Sox are very negligible in at least the outside one. If we don't win, forget it! Nothing else to coax the casual fan out to our park.

 

But we don't have to win all of the time, and to suggest we do would be silly. No team can achieve that. But we definitely have to win more than we do and be more successful than we've had in either the near or distant past if we can ever hope for better results at the gate. That couldn't be more than clear than it is today. For all intents and purposes, as a large market team, we are at rock bottom when it comes to all of this.

[greg775]

The Sox could be the darlings of the city if they built a downtown ballpark. Is there any property available? Isn't Grant Park big enough?? Anywhere else? Build a true palace with Cuban as the owner!

[ewokpelts]

The Sox could be the darlings of the city if they built a downtown ballpark. Is there any property available? Isn't Grant Park big enough?? Anywhere else? Build a true palace with Cuban as the owner!

Could you imagine the public uproar over a stadium in grant park?

 

The west loop idea circa 85/86 was probably the best location outside 35th street. But that was a joint football/baseball stadium, which would be torn down by now.

[ewokpelts]

That would all come in handy if the product on the field was worth coming out to watch and the fans were coming out in droves to do so. Unfortunately, that would hardly describe the experience the White Sox have offered their fans in recent years. As always with this argument, all roads lead back to the one and only solution - winning. Stop with the making-the-playoffs-once-a-decade routine, or the occasional seven-year hiatus from any playoff appearance at all that we are currently mired in, and give our long suffering fans what they richly deserve: sustained success. Novel concept, I know, but dare I say, it's worth a shot!

He asked about the location. Please keep track of where the conversation is going.

[LDF]

He asked about the location. Please keep track of where the conversation is going.

 

why it still comes back to winning. location aside, put a winning product on the field and 2.8+ will be seen again.

 

last yr, 2014 attendance was 1,650,821, per espn.

2015 with games left, it stands at 1,661,541 per espn.

[COACH612]

There are a number of factors why attendance is down. I am a true baseball fan and love the Sox but here is my opinion for what its worth. We all work hard and to pay money to see crappy baseball is not worth my time and money. It takes me 2 hours each way to get to the ball park. Now, all teams go through periods of rebuilding periods but when you don't see any improvements, why should anyone bother? Ventura has been managing for 4 years now and I have seen enough of him to say he needs to go. Let's save that for another post. Over the last several years, I have seen bad fundamentals that I can't believe. Starting with base running. I can't tell you how many times I have seen runners get doubled off because they break on contact instead of seeing the play develop. Isn't this what minor league is suppose to do? Teach? How many chances doe LaRoche need? He K's about 33% of the time and Shuck does about 10%. Why not have Shuck DH? It's called playing to your strengths not weaknesses.

 

How about the lack of offense over the past several years? How many games can the Sox win if they do not acquire enough bats? The bottom half of the order is lousy and the entire team's lack of situational hitting is horrible. How many times can the Sox leave men on base or not have QABs?

 

And my last point is the location. It sucks. No other way around it. They should have built the new stadium by circle campus. They could have created an atmosphere outside the ball park because they would have had room. There could have been things to do with kids outside of the game.

 

I will not spend an entire day traveling to and from the game to watch bad baseball when I can watch it on tv for free and not pay $9.00 for a beer. Wake me when the Sox start to play better.

[southsider2k5]

Why is the Sox' ballpark location a detriment to their franchise, while the Cubs' location is not? Did you really ask this question? WOW! Everyone knows you are an unabashed apologist for Sox ownership and management, but to somehow even remotely try and level set the Wrigleyville experience surrounding a Cubs game with the experience Sox fans get in good, 'ol Bridgeport, well, like I said - WOW! Now I've heard it all!

 

Keep in mind, though, that so-called "experience" only matters in the down years, when your team isn't winning. You can't win all the time, and so when you don't, it's nice to have something else to draw you out to the park, be it the in-park experience or near outside one. The Cubs have both in spades; meanwhile, our Sox are very negligible in at least the outside one. If we don't win, forget it! Nothing else to coax the casual fan out to our park.

 

But we don't have to win all of the time, and to suggest we do would be silly. No team can achieve that. But we definitely have to win more than we do and be more successful than we've had in either the near or distant past if we can ever hope for better results at the gate. That couldn't be more than clear than it is today. For all intents and purposes, as a large market team, we are at rock bottom when it comes to all of this.

 

But I thought winning was all that mattered?

[LDF]

There are a number of factors why attendance is down. I am a true baseball fan and love the Sox but here is my opinion for what its worth. We all work hard and to pay money to see crappy baseball is not worth my time and money. It takes me 2 hours each way to get to the ball park. Now, all teams go through periods of rebuilding periods but when you don't see any improvements, why should anyone bother? Ventura has been managing for 4 years now and I have seen enough of him to say he needs to go. Let's save that for another post. Over the last several years, I have seen bad fundamentals that I can't believe. Starting with base running. I can't tell you how many times I have seen runners get doubled off because they break on contact instead of seeing the play develop. Isn't this what minor league is suppose to do? Teach? How many chances doe LaRoche need? He K's about 33% of the time and Shuck does about 10%. Why not have Shuck DH? It's called playing to your strengths not weaknesses.

 

How about the lack of offense over the past several years? How many games can the Sox win if they do not acquire enough bats? The bottom half of the order is lousy and the entire team's lack of situational hitting is horrible. How many times can the Sox leave men on base or not have QABs?

 

And my last point is the location. It sucks. No other way around it. They should have built the new stadium by circle campus. They could have created an atmosphere outside the ball park because they would have had room. There could have been things to do with kids outside of the game.

 

I will not spend an entire day traveling to and from the game to watch bad baseball when I can watch it on tv for free and not pay $9.00 for a beer. Wake me when the Sox start to play better.

 

the owners and again, my rant on the owners, they have done nothing but screwed up in a majority of the things they tried to max their money investment.

 

moving or the offer to move, they failed,

charge outrageous prices after the WS in 2005.

pricing at the concession stand ..... really outrageous.

 

maybe if the product on the field that wouldn't have been a major hit. but they have failed to really adjust the prices overall on how the idea of economics have change. instead of max the prices with is already high, but to lower the price and they will sell more.

 

i don't know, i honestly have always felt the the owners biggest problem over the yrs has the person they see in the mirror.

 

[LDF]

But I thought winning was all that mattered?

 

winning and that whole feeling of being part of that excitement, makes all the little annoying tidbits more durable.

[Lip Man 1]

But I thought winning was all that mattered?

 

In my opinion its certainly the most important aspect especially with the Sox...but to claim that it's "all" (as in 100%) that matters in the overall health of a franchise is being myopic.

 

Mark

 

[southsider2k5]

In my opinion its certainly the most important aspect especially with the Sox...but to claim that it's "all" (as in 100%) that matters in the overall health of a franchise is being myopic.

 

Mark

 

Eh, it goes back to the same excuses, pick one... pick any of the dozens that get used on a regular basis. If the team is winning, then it didn't win enough. If it isn't the neighborhood, it is the seat color, or the direct the stadium faces.... and on and on...

[southsider2k5]

Eh, it goes back to the same excuses, pick one... pick any of the dozens that get used on a regular basis. If the team is winning, then it didn't win enough. If it isn't the neighborhood, it is the seat color, or the direct the stadium faces.... and on and on...

 

EDIT: But don't worry, the same people will be here complaining about it.

 

[Hatchetman]

The team has won 90 games only 6 times in the 35 years JR's been in charge. In those years it takes everybody by surprise and its all over before they realize what happened. Then its back to mediocrity.

[LDF]

Eh, it goes back to the same excuses, pick one... pick any of the dozens that get used on a regular basis. If the team is winning, then it didn't win enough. If it isn't the neighborhood, it is the seat color, or the direct the stadium faces.... and on and on...

 

isn't that part of being a fan.

 

fans are never happy.

[OmarComing25]

The team has won 90 games only 6 times in the 35 years JR's been in charge. In those years it takes everybody by surprise and its all over before they realize what happened. Then its back to mediocrity.

2006 was probably the one year it wasn't a surprise.

[Hatchetman]

2006 was probably the one year it wasn't a surprise.

 

yeah, and then it was a disappointment.