John McDonough

[Lip Man 1]

Of course that is what you took from all of that.

 

Please feel free to educate me then on what I was supposed to take from it. Seriously...I've just been here two months and have read enough of your comments to get a sense of your philosophy. It's the fans fault, they should pack the place and hope the Sox can figure out a way to spend that money and win.

 

History shows this organization though had trouble spending any kind of money in a productive way more often then not. 2005 being the exception when they actually had less money for Kenny to play around with.

 

Until the front office gets a badly needed shake up, it's just more of the same mediocrity at best regardless of if they draw 300,000 or 3 million for a season,

 

Mark

Edited September 30, 2015 by Lip Man 1

[LDF]

My point is there is plenty of evidence showing the Sox could actually spend a lot more money if they wanted to both at the major league level and the minor league system.

 

I've heard from two individuals over the years with connections to the Sox Board of Directors. They have told me on separate occasions the Sox haven't lost money in years.

 

But feel free to keep blaming the fans who pays the freight instead of the millionairs with all the financial advantages. That's your choice and I laugh out loud at anyone who takes that approach.

 

Mark

 

my disclaimer ~ i am with you on all this. but i would like to add something .

 

now, the source have stated that the owners haven't lost money, in yrs.

 

now for some clarification. is that from the main company. the sox org or is that from all the secondary companies that they have set up. like the chi sports grill company. which is associated directly with the sox org and is in sox park. they also provide all the vending lease and licenses and supplies for the vendors.

 

i think it is both..... that corp and commercial income is huge and is not considered in the final tally at the end of the day.

[LDF]

I actually laughed out loud at that statement. I am not quite sure what an economist would do with financial statements, but it would be entertaining to watch. Also the idea of demanding that a sports franchise should have to be subject to an audit just for the sake of the fans is laugh out loud funny. I won't even get into the false dichotomy of being worth a lot of money meaning that you automatically have the ability to spend it on something else.

 

he is not saying that....

 

i think you know that.

[Chicago White Sox]

I'm sorry, but in what other industry does management come out and blame the fans for their inferior product? It's complete bulls*** to blame attendence for our lack of resources. Almost all successful organations had to invest in the quality of their product before building a strong customer base. Here we get the "I can't spend a dollar if I have 50 cents" crap. Any other company would have gone out of business a long time ago with that mindset, but since this is baseball us loyal fans have no choice but to accept management's shortcomings and support the team. However, those who simply view White Sox baseball as another form entertainment can weigh their alternatives and spend their limited disposal income elsewhere. And until our ownership group decides to commit their own resources (not just what the P&L allows) towards building a premier White Sox product, there is no reason to expect fan support from anything but the most hardcore of fans.

[caulfield12]

I don't understand how vilifying the fanbase and taking the focus off the real culprits (JR, KW, Hahn, Bell and Ventura) is helpful at all.

 

Obviously, complaining about the obvious shortcomings of that aforementioned group is pointless, but no more so than expecting blind allegiance to a leadership group that hasn't given us much reason to have faith or hope is a course many reasonable/rational consumers will take. Simply a matter of consistently diminishing returns from being a Sox fan.

 

Want to compete in 2017? Either Fulmer emerges as an All-Star to complement Rodon or Hahn risks his career trading Quintana or Sale for someone like Puig.

 

We have a bunch of replacement level or below starters on our roster, other than Abreu and Eaton. Possibly Cabrera, but you can't count on him and certainly not when he's two years older in 2017 (when they will of course hold onto him just like with Danks and Dunn and even Ventura as manager.)

 

Hell, we might as well sign Iwakuma/Latos/Beachy/Fister just to watch that blow up in Hahn's face as well...then we can block Erik Johnson for another year and hold him back for that promised pennant drive in 2017 or 2018.

 

PS. Surely Mike Olt will sell at least 28 season tickets as a member of the Sox caravan.

Edited September 30, 2015 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Please feel free to educate me then on what I was supposed to take from it. Seriously...I've just been here two months and have read enough of your comments to get a sense of your philosophy. It's the fans fault, they should pack the place and hope the Sox can figure out a way to spend that money and win.

 

History shows this organization though had trouble spending any kind of money in a productive way more often then not. 2005 being the exception when they actually had less money for Kenny to play around with.

 

Until the front office gets a badly needed shake up, it's just more of the same mediocrity at best regardless of if they draw 300,000 or 3 million for a season,

 

Mark

 

You apparently read what I had to say about it, and still took from it the typical "its all the fans fault", so it is pretty much a waste of time to try to convince you differently.

 

Thought I do like the fact you are telling me in one post that resources don't matter, but the team should be spending more in another. So obviously you realize the ability to spend has an effect.

[southsider2k5]

my disclaimer ~ i am with you on all this. but i would like to add something .

 

now, the source have stated that the owners haven't lost money, in yrs.

 

now for some clarification. is that from the main company. the sox org or is that from all the secondary companies that they have set up. like the chi sports grill company. which is associated directly with the sox org and is in sox park. they also provide all the vending lease and licenses and supplies for the vendors.

 

i think it is both..... that corp and commercial income is huge and is not considered in the final tally at the end of the day.

 

I am pretty sure that Forbes is smart enough to figure that stuff out. They study companies WAY more complex than the Chicago White Sox on a daily basis.

[caulfield12]

I am pretty sure that Forbes is smart enough to figure that stuff out. They study companies WAY more complex than the Chicago White Sox on a daily basis.

 

If you really feel that way about your fellow White Sox fans, if it bothers you this much....isn't your enjoyment level always going to be limited by their perceived shortcomings?

 

Do any other teams blame their fans for failure like we do around here?

 

Cleveland? Tampa? Miami? Oakland? Colorado? Seattle?

 

Or do they blame ownership? The stadium? Bad karma/fate/destiny?

Edited September 30, 2015 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

And who is to say what those resource limits are? Until an independent economist gets to take a look at Sox finances we'll never know what they could or could not do. Circumstantial evidence over a number of years (to go along with the revenue being generated by MLB) points to the possibility of the Sox being able to spend more and do both if they chose to.

 

It was like when Veeck owned the team the second time, conventional thinking was he had no money. That was far from the truth, you look at the names on the Sox Board of Directors under Veeck and you found some of the richest people in America like the guy who owned Pizer Chemicals. It was a matter if pride with Veeck that he refused to go back and ask them for more money and promised them a profit every season.

 

The reality was the Sox could have spent like the Yankees if they wanted to...they chose not to do so.

 

I get the sense that at times that same philosophy was in place with the Sox and may still be.

 

Just don't know for sure.

 

But I go back to my original point. Given the tax payer funded stadium, given the lease advantages from the state, given the improvements made to the ballpark (and not by JR's money) the White Sox have the first, second, third obligation to field a good competitive club on a consistent basis BEFORE having the right (or the gall) to call out their fan base in any way shape or form.

 

And that goes for their supporters wherever they may be. The ownership group has done some very good things...they've also done some really stupid things which have put them in the position they are in. The fans didn't sign Adam LaRoche, the fans didn't trade for Nick Swisher, the fans didn't sign Adam Dunn just to name a few examples or give a big contract to a stiff like Jeff Keppinger. That was ownership / front office. Period.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Mark

 

Forbes wrote on September 14th last year, "Four Reasons to Avoid the Alibaba IPO."

 

They're seemingly better at analysis than Rick Hahn's track record. Plus, it would be a heckuva lot more entertaining to see them run the team at least. They could be more productively and allocatively efficient for just $12 million than misspending it on KW, Hahn, Bell and Ventura.

Edited September 30, 2015 by caulfield12

[Lip Man 1]

I'm sorry, but in what other industry does management come out and blame the fans for their inferior product? It's complete bulls*** to blame attendence for our lack of resources. Almost all successful organations had to invest in the quality of their product before building a strong customer base. Here we get the "I can't spend a dollar if I have 50 cents" crap. Any other company would have gone out of business a long time ago with that mindset, but since this is baseball us loyal fans have no choice but to accept management's shortcomings and support the team. However, those who simply view White Sox baseball as another form entertainment can weigh their alternatives and spend their limited disposal income elsewhere. And until our ownership group decides to commit their own resources (not just what the P&L allows) towards building a premier White Sox product, there is no reason to expect fan support from anything but the most hardcore of fans.

 

Very well stated.

 

Mark

 

[LDF]

I don't understand how vilifying the fanbase and taking the focus off the real culprits (JR, KW, Hahn, Bell and Ventura) is helpful at all.

 

Obviously, complaining about the obvious shortcomings of that aforementioned group is pointless, but no more so than expecting blind allegiance to a leadership group that hasn't given us much reason to have faith or hope is a course many reasonable/rational consumers will take. Simply a matter of consistently diminishing returns from being a Sox fan.

 

Want to compete in 2017? Either Fulmer emerges as an All-Star to complement Rodon or Hahn risks his career trading Quintana or Sale for someone like Puig.

 

We have a bunch of replacement level or below starters on our roster, other than Abreu and Eaton. Possibly Cabrera, but you can't count on him and certainly not when he's two years older in 2017 (when they will of course hold onto him just like with Danks and Dunn and even Ventura as manager.)

 

Hell, we might as well sign Iwakuma/Latos/Beachy/Fister just to watch that blow up in Hahn's face as well...then we can block Erik Johnson for another year and hold him back for that promised pennant drive in 2017 or 2018.

 

PS. Surely Mike Olt will sell at least 28 season tickets as a member of the Sox caravan.

 

nice post, the needs to really invest into helping rebuild the team where it can compete.

[LDF]

I am pretty sure that Forbes is smart enough to figure that stuff out. They study companies WAY more complex than the Chicago White Sox on a daily basis.

 

they have a set of parameters they deal with. the profit lost and other resources that affects the profit and lost.

 

they do not delve into the others hidden resources or secondary companies b/c it is not dealing with the actual sox org..

 

that is why all these big companies spends millions on excellent corporate lawyers and corporate accountants. to find that elusive and legal way of dealing with the money.

[southsider2k5]

they have a set of parameters they deal with. the profit lost and other resources that affects the profit and lost.

 

they do not delve into the others hidden resources or secondary companies b/c it is not dealing with the actual sox org..

 

that is why all these big companies spends millions on excellent corporate lawyers and corporate accountants. to find that elusive and legal way of dealing with the money.

 

I'd be curious to see how you know this.

[LDF]

I'd be curious to see how you know this.

 

b/c they have stated as such in their yearly post, with added disclaimer. they do this so they will not be blame for fabricating info to an article.

[southsider2k5]

b/c they have stated as such in their yearly post, with added disclaimer. they do this so they will not be blame for fabricating info to an article.

 

 

I don't see this. Care to share?

[LDF]

I don't see this. Care to share?

 

i read it somewhere ....when i was looking up other forbe articles on this yearly profit and income. i also remember where they mention that they deal with the actual money that is listed. they also said that they do not count for the accuracy of that, b/c of the lawyer and accounts of the org know what they are doing.

 

so in essence you want to find a little tidbit on the net of this proof .... get real .

 

quit be being or acting like a troll on everything like you know it all.

Edited September 30, 2015 by LDF

[southsider2k5]

i read it somewhere ....when i was looking up other forbe articles on this yearly profit and income. i also remember where they mention that they deal with the actual money that is listed. they also said that they do not count for the accuracy of that, b/c of the lawyer and accounts of the org know what they are doing.

 

so in essence you want to find a little tidbit on the net of this proof .... get real .

 

quit be a troll on everything like you know it all.

 

lol. OK. I have read the Sox Forbes page for years, and I don't remember seeing anything like the warning you are talking about. If there is something out there I don't know about, I'd like to see it.

 

You can stop the personal attacks anytime now.

[LDF]

lol. OK. I have read the Sox Forbes page for years, and I don't remember seeing anything like the warning you are talking about. If there is something out there I don't know about, I'd like to see it.

 

You can stop the personal attacks anytime now.

 

that wasn't an attack.

 

do you think i would be dumb to verbally attack a mod / admin. i don't think so. anyway i have nothing but the highest respect for yous guys.

 

btw, a couple of days ago, someone else mention this exact same thing, yet you did not say anything to that poster.

 

very inconsistent.

Edited September 30, 2015 by LDF

[LDF]

lol. OK. I have read the Sox Forbes page for years, and I don't remember seeing anything like the warning you are talking about. If there is something out there I don't know about, I'd like to see it.

 

You can stop the personal attacks anytime now.

 

so do i and i usually get on their web site to research things. esp after the last time the topic of the sox income and other things were mention. i did my research all the way back to 2001 ..... but i didn't want to rehash the subject. it is pretty much as i have always maintain and i will leave it at that.

[ewokpelts]

Johnny mccub is the answer. If you like beanie babies and the sox hiring a nazi sympathizer/ wife beater as a team ambassador.