White Sox official website has a possible Quintana trade chip post

[LDF]

If this is what you're referring to, then it was me

 

yeah..... that was great. funny!!!!

[SCCWS]

Absolutely not. We need the pitching depth. there are a few ML catchers who can hit anyway.

Once again , trade Eaton. And if he's as good as everyone thinks he is, fantastic. That means we'll get more for him.

 

Bad move. Eaton would bring you one player of value in return and open up a hole in CF and leadoff. Eaton and Abreu should be the only 2 guaranteed starters for next year. The rest of the positions could use changing or upgrading depending on the moves made. If in the course of upgrading they pick up a better CF you would move Eaton to left or right.

 

[harfman77]

I think Q has to be moved, its really the only way that the Sox can improve the roster, yes you will take a hit in your rotation, but you need to do something to improve the offense and defense around otherwise you are just wasting the pitching.

 

I think if Q does get traded it is going to be a pretty large deal, at least three teams as the teams that have the most use for him do not have the type of players to give up that the Sox need. Teams like the Dodgers and Red Sox make sense as they both will have holes in their rotation but the prospects/players that would be of interest to the Sox are holding down ML jobs which means to me that they will have to get a third team involved to take some prospects from one of those teams in return for some ML ready talent.

[harfman77]

Bad move. Eaton would bring you one player of value in return and open up a hole in CF and leadoff. Eaton and Abreu should be the only 2 guaranteed starters for next year. The rest of the positions could use changing or upgrading depending on the moves made. If in the course of upgrading they pick up a better CF you would move Eaton to left or right.

 

This team is not likely to be much better next year, move Eaton while he has value, you can platoon Shuck and Thompson out there for the year. I think Anderson ends up in CF anyway so they might as well clear the spot while Eaton's value is high.

[Boopa1219]

What has he done to earn your trust?

 

His job.

[GreatScott82]

What has the team done that you can assuredly attribute to Hahn?

That's the problem. Nobody knows. According to KW, all blame should go toward himself and not Hahn. So pretty much Hahn is still assistant GM?

[GreatScott82]

His job.

If his job means to 'retool' every year and to go under .500, your right- he has done a great job!

 

 

[OmarComing25]

Did they retool after '13 spiraled away when they brought in Abreu, Eaton, Davidson and Garcia. It seems like they brought in a lot of young guys with the hopes they would become mainstays. Maybe they jumped the gun this past offseason, but that can be attributed to KW not Rick Hahn.

This is a good point. A lot of people seem to think the Sox are afraid of rebuilding, but 2014 was pretty clearly a rebuilding year. With all the money coming off the books they decided to take a shot and it blew up in their faces.

[OmarComing25]

This team is not likely to be much better next year, move Eaton while he has value, you can platoon Shuck and Thompson out there for the year. I think Anderson ends up in CF anyway so they might as well clear the spot while Eaton's value is high.

Moving Eaton would only make sense if you could somehow fill two holes with him. Otherwise you're just opening up a new hole to fill another. I don't think the first scenario is at all likely.

[LDF]

Moving Eaton would only make sense if you could somehow fill two holes with him. Otherwise you're just opening up a new hole to fill another. I don't think the first scenario is at all likely.

 

i am not for moving eaton, however j. may is and will still be in the minors.... i wonder if he put up the same kind of numbers, the idea comes up, where to put him.

[harfman77]

They both have responsibilities that full under the umbrella of a "GM" but with the way baseball's front offices are moving should you be surprised? Jed Hoyer is the GM on the Northside and his name is barely uttered by the media. It's all Theo, Theo, Theo. Of course with the Sox there has been serious division between the FO and there is not fluid movement within the FO. That's a problem. So is the incessant loyal that's rampant throughout the organization. It's a just jaded argument.

 

 

Did they retool after '13 spiraled away when they brought in Abreu, Eaton, Davidson and Garcia. It seems like they brought in a lot of young guys with the hopes they would become mainstays. Maybe they jumped the gun this past offseason, but that can be attributed to KW not Rick Hahn.

 

Jumping the gun last offseason is what really hurt this team, without the money spent on free agents the season would not have seemed to be such a disappointment. Also giving up two prospects (draft choices) that could have been contributors is a bit painful.

 

Unfortunately it looks as though KW is going to be back which is going to keep the team in the middle of building a winner and trying to go all in every year and leave the team in no mans land - not good enough to make the playoffs and not bad enough to make an impact in the draft.

[harfman77]

Moving Eaton would only make sense if you could somehow fill two holes with him. Otherwise you're just opening up a new hole to fill another. I don't think the first scenario is at all likely.

 

I think that Anderson can fill that hole when the team is ready to make a run so it is more taking from a position of strength to fill in an open spot.

[LDF]

Jumping the gun last offseason is what really hurt this team, without the money spent on free agents the season would not have seemed to be such a disappointment. Also giving up two prospects (draft choices) that could have been contributors is a bit painful.

 

Unfortunately it looks as though KW is going to be back which is going to keep the team in the middle of building a winner and trying to go all in every year and leave the team in no mans land - not good enough to make the playoffs and not bad enough to make an impact in the draft.

 

i really hope the sox fo and owners really do read this board.

[Hatchetman]

The Sox pissed away $40 million on 2015 salary on mediocre acquisitions this year: Cabrera, Laroche, Duke, and Smarj.

 

Imagine the other ways $40 could have been invested.

 

 

[Hatchetman]

The Smarj one was OK in theory, because you figured they could deal him at the trade deadline at worst.

[Balta1701]

Samardzija was not a mediocre acquisition. He underperformed, but he still has surplus value on his cost. Plus, we have a very valuable draft pick coming from his dismissal. I liked this move then and I like it now. This was a well thought out, perfectly positioned move. The fact that Samardzija has performed the way he has and the Sox are in the position they are in shows how well-coordinated this move was.

For what it's worth - I disliked the move then and disliked it even in June when Samardzija was pitching well. He produced some surplus value if you go strictly by Fangraphs, but he has produced less surplus value than what was traded for, was paid more, and the value of the draft pick is almost certain to be less than what was traded away for him in the long term by a large amount without even taking into account the fact that it'll be 3-4 years before we even have a chance to get anything from it. Plus, if you go by the baseball-reference numbers, he has 0 surplus value - in fact he's dramatically overpaid by their numbers. It was a poorly thought out, "all-in" sort of move that was MUCH higher risk than anyone wanted to admit given where our organization was at the time, not even counting the larger degradation in performance than expected.

 

I know you won't agree with my case and I'm ok with that, just highlighting the fact that there was disagreement with the concept at the time.

[chitownsportsfan]

I don't use bWAR for pitchers so I am not all that concerned with it. You are ignoring opportunity cost when using WAR. Phegley had no standing in this organization and would have never been given a chance. In fact, he may have been released if the A's didn't have a liking for him. Bassit would have never started on our team either and I'll bet can't do what he does in Oakland outside of there. If we keep Bassit, there's probably no Albers. The only part that hurts is Semien but you have to give to get.

 

fWAR for pitchers is a fantasy construction. Just like the hindsight bias you used in your post.

[Balta1701]

I don't use bWAR for pitchers so I am not all that concerned with it. You are ignoring opportunity cost when using WAR. Phegley had no standing in this organization and would have never been given a chance. In fact, he may have been released if the A's didn't have a liking for him. Bassit would have never started on our team either and I'll bet can't do what he does in Oakland outside of there. If we keep Bassit, there's probably no Albers. The only part that hurts is Semien but you have to give to get.

Since you brought up opportunity/cost: part of the cost of Samardzija is that we never gave Bassit an opportunity because we had to compete right now. And "Phegley woudln't have played for this organization" is only a defense of the move if it's also an indictment of the organization at the same time.

 

But anyway, i can go on with this for hours and so I'm going to drop it, last word is yours if you want it.

[shysocks]

If Phegley ever has another year half as good as this one I'll eat my hat. Semien is still the only guy I'll miss from that deal - and I'll miss him plenty.

[chitownsportsfan]

Funny as I was responding to Balta who's whole post was on "hindsight." It's not like we were evaluating a move that happened in the past or anything. My points were A.) Phegley has no role on the team. B.) Bassit can't continue his pitching in the future.

 

But hey, I haven't been around here in a while since I've been busy but to no surprise you come out to attack me right when I return. Did constantly attacking SS2K grow tired when I was gone? I am sure you had to direct your angst at him while I was gone. As it's been your whole time here, you just attack the "authority" here on trivial observations. Only thing is the leadership on this board is the most relaxed leadership you can find on a message board. I shouldn't guess about your personal life, but it just seems like you've really struggled with authority in your personal life that it's become pervasive in every facet of your life. No one's out to get you chitownsportsfan, you're safe here buddy.

 

Nah, I don't care enough to write a paragraph like you. Using fWAR to justify the Shark trade is a joke. Unlike SS2K you actually make decent points on occasion but this was not one of them. SS2K is a professional Internet troll I try and ignore him now. I will poke fun at your baseball career however you seem to think your God's gift to baseball so let me know when you make a MLB roster I'll be sure to come here and write a treatise on how great you are!

Edited September 29, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[fathom]

If Phegley ever has another year half as good as this one I'll eat my hat. Semien is still the only guy I'll miss from that deal - and I'll miss him plenty.

 

Semien is a solid player, but if he's the best you give up in a trade for a possible top pitcher, then it's a deal you have to make. I see no reason why Anderson can't be a better SS than Semien. God knows I'm not the biggest Samardzija fan, but I think all of us were fine with who the Sox gave up at the time. Just too bad Samardzija flopped.

[southsider2k5]

If Phegley ever has another year half as good as this one I'll eat my hat. Semien is still the only guy I'll miss from that deal - and I'll miss him plenty.

 

Our system is loaded with SS's. Semien isn't someone I am that worried about, especially because if the guy we traded him for did anything at all, or the guy who was blocking him at SS hadn't sucked for the first two months of the year, no one would really care. Dealing Marcus was dealing surplus.

 

Heck we could probably call up Tim Anderson today and get the same hitter/no fielder SS in the line up.

[LDF]

Semien is a solid player, but if he's the best you give up in a trade for a possible top pitcher, then it's a deal you have to make. I see no reason why Anderson can't be a better SS than Semien. God knows I'm not the biggest Samardzija fan, but I think all of us were fine with who the Sox gave up at the time. Just too bad Samardzija flopped.

 

i with and admin talked on the pm when the trade went down. we decided not to voice our displeasure of the trade.

 

i hated it b/c i always thought shark was over rated.

 

however, and i will admit i brought into the idea of this team making a run for the playoff and even go longer in the playoff.

 

now, and i am saying that the state of the team, forced this trade. where the whole sentiment would have been different if the sox made the playoff, that is not the case. it was a gamble and it had to be made.

 

pretty much as some of the ideas of trading some promising young prospect, which i would hate to admit, but it will needed to help this team. i can even see this.

 

when there is a trade, it will always be a gamble that it works.... and on this trade with shark and others, it didn't

[shysocks]

Our system is loaded with SS's. Semien isn't someone I am that worried about, especially because if the guy we traded him for did anything at all, or the guy who was blocking him at SS hadn't sucked for the first two months of the year, no one would really care. Dealing Marcus was dealing surplus.

 

Heck we could probably call up Tim Anderson today and get the same hitter/no fielder SS in the line up.

Wouldn't he have played 2B for the Sox? Unless they really liked Micah so much that they would have played him ahead of Semien. And while the bolded is true, I think we gave up the best middle infielder we had.

 

Anderson couldn't do what Semien is doing at the plate right now, that's a stretch, and scary stories about Semien's defense are exaggerated.

[southsider2k5]

Wouldn't he have played 2B for the Sox? Unless they really liked Micah so much that they would have played him ahead of Semien. And while the bolded is true, I think we gave up the best middle infielder we had.

 

Anderson couldn't do what Semien is doing at the plate right now, that's a stretch, and scary stories about Semien's defense are exaggerated.

 

In hindsight I think it is obvious the Sox wanted Micah Johnson to start at 2nd. I doubt Semien started there. He might have been the first call up after, or on the roster as a utility player. I believe if he was going to win a starting job, it would have been at 3rd, not 2nd.