Voter ID and access to ID

[NorthSideSox72]

So, the state of Alabama passed a law last year requiring voters to present photo ID. Less than a year later, they have now closed DMV offices in all counties with more than 75% minority populations. They then plan to close even more, leaving only four offices state-wise.

 

Let's call this what it is - a poll tax. It is disgusting and makes me angry. The fact that people want it both ways tells me there is still plenty of institutional racism at play there. And even if one wants to assign some other motive, the effect is the same - minority voters, and soon also poor rural voters in general, will be kept from the polls due to costs they cannot bear. Poll tax. Say it with me. Poll tax.

 

Even if you think voter ID is a good thing for reasons not rooted in bigotry - which I think is a fool's errand anyway because you aren't really addressing any real problem - then you HAVE to make acquiring photo ID's as easy as voting. Period. Can't have it both ways.

 

I am frustrated with my state government in Illinois, for driving us into a fiscal abyss. But I would be much angrier to live in a place where the legislature and executive thought this was acceptable. I sincerely hope the feds step in and slap these idiots into the 21st century.

 

[bmags]

This happens about 1 year after the federal supervision of voting rights is basically gutted.

 

[EvilMonkey]

ALEA says an analysis shows transactions performed in each of the 31 locations they are closing accounted for less than 5% of Alabama Driver License transactions performed. The busiest of the locations performed less than 2,000 transactions in 2014.

[NorthSideSox72]

Why does that matter?

 

Again, this is not about one thing OR the other. It is that both being true is unequivocally disenfranchising certain segments of the population. Want ID's? Fine, then make them as easy to get as voting. Want no impediments to voting? Fine, don't require an ID. Otherwise, it is a poll tax.

 

 

[EvilMonkey]

Why does that matter?

 

Again, this is not about one thing OR the other. It is that both being true is unequivocally disenfranchising certain segments of the population. Want ID's? Fine, then make them as easy to get as voting. Want no impediments to voting? Fine, don't require an ID. Otherwise, it is a poll tax.

They offer online renewals

“The impact of the changes due to the budget cuts will be lessened because of the implementation of these technology-based services, including online renewals.”

As well as other services at other locations.

Additionally, statewide equipment upgrades announced in July, will allow Probate Judges and License or Revenue Commissioners to renew STAR IDs and conduct other services that were previously only performed at Driver License Offices.”

 

So if they HAVE one, not a problem, have a variety of option to renew. Considering that those locations handled 5% of the TOTAL transactions in the state, I am fairly confident that less than half were for NEW licenses. In your other link the writer b****ed about having to drive 10 miles to a facility since he lives in a rural area. I had to go at least that far, and I was just in the south suburbs of Illinois. Oh boy.

[NorthSideSox72]

They offer online renewals

 

As well as other services at other locations.

 

 

So if they HAVE one, not a problem, have a variety of option to renew. Considering that those locations handled 5% of the TOTAL transactions in the state, I am fairly confident that less than half were for NEW licenses. In your other link the writer b****ed about having to drive 10 miles to a facility since he lives in a rural area. I had to go at least that far, and I was just in the south suburbs of Illinois. Oh boy.

This makes me sad. How can you really not see the problem here? How can you be OK with disenfranchisement by the state?

 

Online renewals is helpful. It is only addressing part of the need though, and just as Illinois has this too, it isn't valid in all cases.

 

This is just so simple. Voting is a right that cannot be charged for. This is charging people, AND making it far more difficult to do. It is therefore not OK.

 

[EvilMonkey]

This makes me sad. How can you really not see the problem here? How can you be OK with disenfranchisement by the state?

 

Online renewals is helpful. It is only addressing part of the need though, and just as Illinois has this too, it isn't valid in all cases.

 

This is just so simple. Voting is a right that cannot be charged for. This is charging people, AND making it far more difficult to do. It is therefore not OK.

Then just put a damn location in everyone's garage so they won't be inconvenienced. because if even one person has to make an actual effort, DISENFRANCHISEMENT! I don't have time to loo, but I bet there are ways to get a FREE picture ID.

 

From first google hit

 

To download the application for a free photo voter ID, click here.

 

Valid ID at the Polls

A voter can use any of the following forms of photo ID at the polls starting June 3, 2014:

 

Valid Driver's License

Valid Non-driver ID

Valid Alabama Photo Voter ID

Valid State Issued ID (Alabama or any other state)

Valid Federal Issued ID

Valid US Passport

Valid Employee ID from Federal Government, State of Alabama, County Government, Municipality, Board, Authority, or other entity of this state

Valid student or employee ID from a college or university in the State of Alabama (including postgraduate technical or professional schools)

Valid Military ID

Valid Tribal ID

Edited October 1, 2015 by Alpha Dog

[NorthSideSox72]

Then just put a damn location in everyone's garage so they won't be inconvenienced. because if even one person has to make an actual effort, DISENFRANCHISEMENT! I don't have time to loo, but I bet there are ways to get a FREE picture ID.

 

From first google hit

They got the free part right. Also your hilarious slippery cliff argument is meaningless. Is it as easy as voting? Are there locations in every town where you can vote? No? Then ID not OK. That's it. Nothing more or less.

 

This isn't hard or expensive to do by the way. You don't need a DMV office in every town. Just have them reasonably available - not four in the entire state, which is ridiculous and is what they said will happen in the end. The state says this.

 

Use mobile trucks to visit towns periodically to do it. Or rent shuttles on occasion. Lots of ways for it to work, if they actually wanted everyone to be able to vote. Which they do not.

 

[illinilaw08]

Then just put a damn location in everyone's garage so they won't be inconvenienced. because if even one person has to make an actual effort, DISENFRANCHISEMENT! I don't have time to loo, but I bet there are ways to get a FREE picture ID.

 

From first google hit

 

Alpha, why do we need voter ID laws in the first place when there is no evidence of voter fraud?

 

More to the point, if voting is a fundamental right, shouldn't access to the polls (and the IDs that are required for that) be as accessible as possible? Parroting NSS, but do you not see how (1) creating a voter ID law; and (2) closing a significant number of DMVs that serve largely poor and minority populations is a problem?

 

Look at the map in the link from NSS. Alabama is a pretty big state. How far is too far to make someone travel to obtain the ID they need to vote?

 

EDIT: Judge Posner (Reagan appointed, Conservative justice), on voter ID fraud in 2014...

 

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la...013-column.html

Edited October 1, 2015 by illinilaw08

[Buehrle>Wood]

Don't really get op. They aren't closing dmvs. They're stopping workers from going to satellite offices that they don't own to begin with. DMVs aren't even the place where the give the voting ids out anyways

[EvilMonkey]

Alpha, why do we need voter ID laws in the first place when there is no evidence of voter fraud?

 

More to the point, if voting is a fundamental right, shouldn't access to the polls (and the IDs that are required for that) be as accessible as possible? Parroting NSS, but do you not see how (1) creating a voter ID law; and (2) closing a significant number of DMVs that serve largely poor and minority populations is a problem?

 

Look at the map in the link from NSS. Alabama is a pretty big state. How far is too far to make someone travel to obtain the ID they need to vote?

 

EDIT: Judge Posner (Reagan appointed, Conservative justice), on voter ID fraud in 2014...

 

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la...013-column.html

First they were satellite offices, not DMVs. WHen money was flush they opened them to help people. Money isn't, so they stop operating them. And if voting is so sacrosanct, why do you NOT want to protect it? You need an ID for almost everything you do. Saying someone can't vote because they don't have an ID is stupid. The same people need that ID they don't have to drive, cash a check, get any kind of governmental assistance and so on. So they have it. And if they don't, they purposely don't.

 

And for the FREE ID,

3) Mobile Locations to be provided.

They are giving them for free, and will come to you. How much more easier does it need to be?

[farmteam]

First they were satellite offices, not DMVs. WHen money was flush they opened them to help people. Money isn't, so they stop operating them. And if voting is so sacrosanct, why do you NOT want to protect it? You need an ID for almost everything you do. Saying someone can't vote because they don't have an ID is stupid. The same people need that ID they don't have to drive, cash a check, get any kind of governmental assistance and so on. So they have it. And if they don't, they purposely don't.

 

And for the FREE ID, They are giving them for free, and will come to you. How much more easier does it need to be?

Right.

 

I don't get Voter ID in general. It's not like anyone can just walk in the door. You still have to register by proving your address, that you live in the precinct.

[StrangeSox]

This happens about 1 year after the federal supervision of voting rights is basically gutted.

What a travesty Shelby County was. I think it will be remembered as a historically terrible decision both morally and legally.

[NorthSideSox72]

First they were satellite offices, not DMVs. WHen money was flush they opened them to help people. Money isn't, so they stop operating them. And if voting is so sacrosanct, why do you NOT want to protect it? You need an ID for almost everything you do. Saying someone can't vote because they don't have an ID is stupid. The same people need that ID they don't have to drive, cash a check, get any kind of governmental assistance and so on. So they have it. And if they don't, they purposely don't.

And for the FREE ID, They are giving them for free, and will come to you. How much more easier does it need to be?

Now if the bolded are BOTH true - it can be provided for free AND they are going out to communities often and widely enough that it covers all areas reasonably well - then I am totally OK with it. That was not the way it appears to be, based on news reports - but I'm very happy if it turns out a free ID really is that easy to get.

 

There might be a different argument here about Driver's Licenses, but not about voting, if those are true.

 

[StrangeSox]

What's the voter fraud rate in states like Washington and Oregon where everything is vote by mail?

 

Voter id laws are ostensibly a solution to an imaginary problem. In practice, they're a means of disenfranchising generally poorer and minority citizens ie people who don't vote Republican.

[StrangeSox]

Also, not everyone has access to the necessary documentation to even get a driver's license or state id in the first place.

[Balta1701]

Also, not everyone has access to the necessary documentation to even get a driver's license or state id in the first place.

And I'm sure that poor people can get off work the day that the voter ID unit gets into their county and they can obviously drive themselves to the registration site.

 

But let's just be honest, we all know that's the point.

[Jake]

As long as it is technically possible to meet some standard of accessibility to the IDs, we won't care about how much it changes from one year to the next or how likely it is that people know what they're supposed to do

[DrunkBomber]

If people want to vote they have made it pretty easy to get some type of id. It just seems like some people would rather spend more time complaining about something than spending the 5 minutes it would take to get a voter id.

[farmteam]

If people want to vote they have made it pretty easy to get some type of id. It just seems like some people would rather spend more time complaining about something than spending the 5 minutes it would take to get a voter id.

But this doesn't address the "making a law where none is needed" aspect.

[Jenksismyhero]

What's the voter fraud rate in states like Washington and Oregon where everything is vote by mail?

 

Voter id laws are ostensibly a solution to an imaginary problem. In practice, they're a means of disenfranchising generally poorer and minority citizens ie people who don't vote Republican.

 

It's to combat the millions of illegals democrats let into the country without enforcing the law because they don't vote republican.

 

Also I still think it's hilarious how sacrosanct voting rights are to you guys but other constitutional rights are just outdated ideas that should be repealed/made worthless. It's a frigging ID. It's not making people walk 100 miles to vote. Hell the fact that voting take place on a business day is more of an inhibitor to voting than getting an ID.

 

[Balta1701]

It's to combat the millions of illegals democrats let into the country without enforcing the law because they don't vote republican.

 

Also I still think it's hilarious how sacrosanct voting rights are to you guys but other constitutional rights are just outdated ideas that should be repealed/made worthless. It's a frigging ID. It's not making people walk 100 miles to vote. Hell the fact that voting take place on a business day is more of an inhibitor to voting than getting an ID.

1. Hence the whole concept of "Voter Registration". Perhaps you should take a moment to review the concept, as far as I know no one here has objected to that. In fact, I encourage you to test this by attempting to register a large number of non-citizens to vote. Make sure they have your name and know that you're strongly encouraging them to do so.

 

2. So "voting on a business day" is an impediment to voting, does that also not indicate that having a mobile ID facility in a county only open 1-2 days a month or having to drive several counties over is a similar issue?

[EvilMonkey]

1. Hence the whole concept of "Voter Registration". Perhaps you should take a moment to review the concept, as far as I know no one here has objected to that. In fact, I encourage you to test this by attempting to register a large number of non-citizens to vote. Make sure they have your name and know that you're strongly encouraging them to do so.

 

2. So "voting on a business day" is an impediment to voting, does that also not indicate that having a mobile ID facility in a county only open 1-2 days a month or having to drive several counties over is a similar issue?

1. So what of same-day registrations? And once you register, presumably at an earlier date, if you don't show any ID to prove who you are when you get there, you can say just any name that happens to be on the rolls.

 

2. Do you have proof that is what they do or are you just guessing? I would venture you are just guessing.

[EvilMonkey]

Also, not everyone has access to the necessary documentation to even get a driver's license or state id in the first place.

Explain to me how these people function in today's society then. They can't work without a ss card and an ID, you need tp provide that with your job application and the I9 form. They can't get government benefits if they don't work since the government has no clue who they are. They can't cash checks without an ID, even at a currency exchange.

[Jenksismyhero]

Explain to me how these people function in today's society then. They can't work without a ss card and an ID, you need tp provide that with your job application and the I9 form. They can't get government benefits if they don't work since the government has no clue who they are. They can't cash checks without an ID, even at a currency exchange.

 

You can with a govt that doesn't enforce laws.