Another School Shooting

[GGajewski18]

ABC 7 Chicago ‏@ABC7Chicago 9m9 minutes ago

Breaking News: Shooting at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon: http://abc7.ws/1OJWPaF

 

KATU NewsVerified account

‏@KATUNews

Oregon State Police confirm 15 dead in #UCCShooting. #LiveOnK2

 

So sad.

[LittleHurt05]

If Sandy Hook didn't lead to any major changes, nothing will.

[Kyyle23]

i just got notification that a suspect was in custody

[Iwritecode]

If Sandy Hook didn't lead to any major changes, nothing will.

 

Unless pre-cognition becomes a reality, I honestly don't know what changes can be made that could prevent these school shootings from happening.

[shysocks]

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-...here-this-36131

[EvilMonkey]

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-...here-this-36131

Well do you have a suggestion? That would work? And isn't 'ban all guns', because that doesn't work?

[shysocks]

Well do you have a suggestion? That would work? And isn't 'ban all guns', because that doesn't work?

My suggestions is "literally anything different than what we're doing now."

[GGajewski18]

Shooter was a 20 year old male. Confirmed dead.

 

He killed at least 13 with 20 others wounded.

[EvilMonkey]

My suggestions is "literally anything different than what we're doing now."

Doing something for the sake of doing something is stupid. So in other words, you have no suggestions other than 'guns, bad'.

[illinilaw08]

Doing something for the sake of doing something is stupid. So in other words, you have no suggestions other than 'guns, bad'.

 

Alpha, do you think mass shootings are a problem? Or are they an unintended consequence of a free society?

 

If they are a problem, what, if anything, would you do to try to reduce the frequency with which they occur?

 

I've stated my opinion on firearms many times on this site. I don't begrudge people owning guns. I may question their utility in certain circumstances (home defense and protection from the government are two such examples), but Pandora's box is open and we can't put all the guns back.

 

My problem is that the only solutions to gun issues - issues largely unique to the United States in the Western World - is greater access to guns (guns in the classroom! Guns in the Courthouse! Guns on the streets! Guns everywhere!). And that argument makes my head hurt.

 

Simple, reasonable gun discussion (registering weapons to make it more difficult to transfer on the black market, greater training before you can own a gun) are met with incredible amounts of resistance.

 

 

[EvilMonkey]

Alpha, do you think mass shootings are a problem? Or are they an unintended consequence of a free society?

 

If they are a problem, what, if anything, would you do to try to reduce the frequency with which they occur?

 

I've stated my opinion on firearms many times on this site. I don't begrudge people owning guns. I may question their utility in certain circumstances (home defense and protection from the government are two such examples), but Pandora's box is open and we can't put all the guns back.

 

My problem is that the only solutions to gun issues - issues largely unique to the United States in the Western World - is greater access to guns (guns in the classroom! Guns in the Courthouse! Guns on the streets! Guns everywhere!). And that argument makes my head hurt.

 

Simple, reasonable gun discussion (registering weapons to make it more difficult to transfer on the black market, greater training before you can own a gun) are met with incredible amounts of resistance.

Registration always does because it has always led to confiscation. Even here in the few places it exists, you get anti groups trying to make that list public. In California they are using that list to go round up guns from people they believe may or may not be able to have them anymore. (Not that I think it is a bad thing they are taking guns from people who shouldn't have them, but there is an open door). The GUN isn't the problem. It is a tool. Yes, that sounds like a bumper sticker but it is true. Most of these mass shooters are pretty f***ed in the head. Maybe they need some help? Put away somewhere? But that would probably be violating their rights somehow, as we can't do anything to them until they crack. How about enforcing existing gun laws? You know they have this nice little form you have to fill out to get a gun that goes to the feds. It is supposed to be a felony to lie on the form. Background checks stopped like 200,000 people last year from getting a gun for lying on that form. There weren't 200,000 prosecutions for that, not even 2000. Your average street thug probably has an arrest sheet longer then their arm. Why the hell are they back on the street? So you have f***ed up mental health in this country, screwed up prison system and judicial system that lets far too many violet criminals back on the steet or lets them go altogether and a lack of enforcement on current laws that all conspire to have this mess we have today. But then when you do have a gun group that tries to do good, like use a federal grant to give out free gun locks to poor people who don't have them, you have anti gun groups opposing that, because "guns, bad'. You have the NRA's Eddie Eagle program tp teach kids what to do and not to do when they find a gun, but god forbid the eeeevil NRA teach kids about safety, because 'guns, bad!'.

 

Short answer is there is no solution short of banning guns, which won't happen and would only make things worse. Everything else just screws with people who legally own their guns and are not a threat to anyone, unless threatened. Let's see what details emerge after a few weeks, since everything we get now is bulls*** tainted by the views of whoever is reporting it. Then lets see what previously proposed thing would have stopped him. That last shooter, he passed a background check. But his mental health things weren't on his record because someone somewhere decided that it was none of our business that he may have been crazy.

[bmags]

Greater bureaucracy over owning a gun -> bad

Greater bureaucracy over being able to vote -> worthwhile

 

We certainly do not have a problem with letting too many felons on the street. That is an insane thing to believe. Have any of the recent mass shooters been a bunch of "thugs" out from jail?

[ron883]

Alpha dog wants our prisons to be even more crowded that's rich

[caulfield12]

Registration always does because it has always led to confiscation. Even here in the few places it exists, you get anti groups trying to make that list public. In California they are using that list to go round up guns from people they believe may or may not be able to have them anymore. (Not that I think it is a bad thing they are taking guns from people who shouldn't have them, but there is an open door). The GUN isn't the problem. It is a tool. Yes, that sounds like a bumper sticker but it is true. Most of these mass shooters are pretty f***ed in the head. Maybe they need some help? Put away somewhere? But that would probably be violating their rights somehow, as we can't do anything to them until they crack. How about enforcing existing gun laws? You know they have this nice little form you have to fill out to get a gun that goes to the feds. It is supposed to be a felony to lie on the form. Background checks stopped like 200,000 people last year from getting a gun for lying on that form. There weren't 200,000 prosecutions for that, not even 2000. Your average street thug probably has an arrest sheet longer then their arm. Why the hell are they back on the street? So you have f***ed up mental health in this country, screwed up prison system and judicial system that lets far too many violet criminals back on the steet or lets them go altogether and a lack of enforcement on current laws that all conspire to have this mess we have today. But then when you do have a gun group that tries to do good, like use a federal grant to give out free gun locks to poor people who don't have them, you have anti gun groups opposing that, because "guns, bad'. You have the NRA's Eddie Eagle program tp teach kids what to do and not to do when they find a gun, but god forbid the eeeevil NRA teach kids about safety, because 'guns, bad!'.

 

Short answer is there is no solution short of banning guns, which won't happen and would only make things worse. Everything else just screws with people who legally own their guns and are not a threat to anyone, unless threatened. Let's see what details emerge after a few weeks, since everything we get now is bulls*** tainted by the views of whoever is reporting it. Then lets see what previously proposed thing would have stopped him. That last shooter, he passed a background check. But his mental health things weren't on his record because someone somewhere decided that it was none of our business that he may have been crazy.

 

So banning guns would be worse because....people would just substitute knives and bombs?

 

I'm almost to the point of agreeing with Greg again, that if the media didn't report for days and days about the shooters and their psychological issues, some of the motivation consequently be would be removed. One of the first social media quotes to come out was about the shooter's feelings of insignificance. "This is the only time I'll be in the news."

 

According to the Oregonian newspaper, the shooter reportedly "asked people to state their religion" before opening fire.

 

Of course, going back at least to John Hinckley almost 35 years ago...you have that same driving force (desire for fame) present in many of these shootings.

Edited October 1, 2015 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Alpha dog wants our prisons to be even more crowded that's rich

 

Better yet, private, for-profit prisons with even higher recidivism rates.

 

Yet the number of African-American, Indian-American and Hispanic-American (the three groups most likely to be incarcerated based on general US pop vs. prison population proportionately) mass shooters remains incredibly low, compared to Asians and whites.

Edited October 1, 2015 by caulfield12

[Brian]

Wish I had the ability to live life with blinders on. Don't do anything cuz it won't work anyway!

 

Some folks probably don't even care about a problem until it effects them.

[Jake]

Allowing some simple things like using government funds to study gun violence and punishing FFL/gun dealers who sell large amounts of guns that are later used in crimes. Back when the government was allowed to look into these things, they found that nearly every metro area had just a few gun shops where the vast, vast majority of guns used in crimes were sold. Then too much talk about gun control and registries and the right made sure nobody was allowed to look into these things anymore.

[caulfield12]

Honestly, it's to the point where the only way things MIGHT change would be if members of Congress lost their own children in one of these situations.

 

Scarily, I think some would be even end more resolute, and obviously the Giffords and Sandy Hook situations didn't bring about any changes.

 

You hear those statistics bandied about, something like only three members of the House and Senate had children fighting in the first two Gulf Wars...it brings one back to the conclusion if more mothers were in leadership positions, logic follows that there would be both fewer wars and fewer guns/less violence since that would suddenly become more of a priority.

[EvilMonkey]

Allowing some simple things like using government funds to study gun violence and punishing FFL/gun dealers who sell large amounts of guns that are later used in crimes. Back when the government was allowed to look into these things, they found that nearly every metro area had just a few gun shops where the vast, vast majority of guns used in crimes were sold. Then too much talk about gun control and registries and the right made sure nobody was allowed to look into these things anymore.

They shut down gun shops all the time for TYPOs on the paperwork. if they know the shops that are doing something wrong, they can go find a reason to shut them down. Gun stores have a defacto registry that they have to produce upon court order to the Feds, so they can track your guns. They get serial numbers off of a gun, they can find out who bought it. That info does not belong in the PD or Feds hands at all. It is a felony to straw purchase. How about some prosecutions for that?

[EvilMonkey]

Better yet, private, for-profit prisons with even higher recidivism rates.

 

Yet the number of African-American, Indian-American and Hispanic-American (the three groups most likely to be incarcerated based on general US pop vs. prison population proportionately) mass shooters remains incredibly low, compared to Asians and whites.

So should a black gang banger who has 7 or 8 violent convictions by the time he is 25 be let back out on the street because there are just too many black guys already in prison? You want to keep him out of jail, then find out why he is committing violent crimes. Studying gun sales isn't going to tell you that. And as to your last thing, it is because the mass shooters often die.

[EvilMonkey]

Wish I had the ability to live life with blinders on. Don't do anything cuz it won't work anyway!

 

Some folks probably don't even care about a problem until it effects them.

That seems to be the attitude every time someone mentions cutting government spending. 'Oh, it's only 50 million, it won't even make a dent in the deficit'.

[caulfield12]

http://news.yahoo.com/lightbox/douglas-cou...3747412056.html

 

2013 letter (written after a previous mass shooting) from local Oregon sheriff stating he won't follow any Federal laws regarding gun control that he believes to be unconstitutional...

Edited October 2, 2015 by caulfield12

[EvilMonkey]

http://news.yahoo.com/lightbox/douglas-cou...3747412056.html

 

2013 letter (written after a previous mass shooting) from local Oregon sheriff stating he won't follow any Federal laws regarding gun control that he believes to be unconstitutional...

I believe that was for background checks on private sales. The forms errors are felonies, state DAs can take care of those. Should be slam dunks to help their conviction rates. But they don't take them.

[greg775]

I don't give a frick what any of you guys say when you blast me for 'overreacting.' Every 2 weeks now it seems we get one of these. The TV thing where the 2 got killed was the last one I believe; Out of the news cycle finally now this one. this one is really really bad.

Ten killed? Let's hear all about the gunman, his life story, rinse and repeat. WTF is wrong with the United States of America?? If it's simply mental illness, well we are in trouble trouble trouble. Cause we're just now starting to create a generation of mentally ill people with all the drugs people have been on since childhood. Seriously, there are probably thousands of people considering or planning the same type of attacks. Is that an overreaction? Thousands? I'd say thousands are considering going out in style with multi mass murder attacks right now!

Let's face it. No matter your position on gun control, it's pretty damn easy for these nutjobs to get their hands on the weapons they'll need to carry out their attacks. I wonder who will be the first to get a hand grenade somehow.

 

What creeps these gunmen are. I mean what cowards. They go into places like the church and the classroom and start firing. And nobody else can fight back cause they are not armed. Asshole murderers! I'm sick of this; so sick of this. And the next one will probably be coming two weeks from now. I pray all of you and yours are safe.

 

I leave you with this paragraph from cnn: "One law enforcement official said the shooter had body armor with him and was heavily armed, with a large amount of ammunition -- enough for a prolonged gunfight. Authorities recovered three pistols and one rifle at the scene, one official said."

 

Good Lord. WTF. What a fricking coward. He gets the guns and ammo; the average joe who was in the wrong place at the wrong time has nothing. All these murders!!!

Edited October 2, 2015 by greg775

[greg775]

So according to CNN the gunman makes the students stand up and asks 'em if they are Christian. So if you they said yes he says 'good you are going to see God in a couple seconds' and blows you away. I mean what horror. I don't know what he did to the people who said they were not Christian.

 

p.s. I don't care what you who say crime is down say. Our country is a f***ing warzone and nobody is gonna tell me otherwise. At any moment you or your loved ones can be gunned down. And you will have no chance to fight back. Now you have to be asked if to renounce your faith or get shot in the face. Geez what a life.

Edited October 2, 2015 by greg775