Hahn Confirms: Ventura back for 2016

[Chisoxfn]

The rumor is that HE was the reason it was bad. No idea if that is actually true or not.

You know, maybe I'm just beyond cynical, but if that was the case, why wasn't he fired before the season? It isn't like we were lighting the world on fire. The team was expected to compete (maybe that was the wrong expectation, but bottom line, that was the tone that came from the organization) so if you had an issue like that and had someone doing it wrong, you pull the trigger sooner vs. later.

 

I find this whole thing head scratching. If the clubhouse was an issue and Parent was the cause, the fact that they didn't act was just terrible. And if it wasn't an issue, then just state that you are going separate ways with Parent when his contract is up to get a new voice, whatever it is. Obviously none of us know the truth in the matter but with what has been reported, I don't like the way this was handled.

[LDF]

The rumor is that HE was the reason it was bad. No idea if that is actually true or not.

 

is there a link to this????

[southsider2k5]

is there a link to this????

 

Is this the part where I throw a hissy fit because I was asked for a link?

 

Lip posted it himself. Do with that what you like.

[LDF]

Is this the part where I throw a hissy fit because I was asked for a link?

 

Lip posted it himself. Do with that what you like.

 

a nice response for an innocent question from a admin.... double standards i see.

[southsider2k5]

a nice response for an innocent question from a admin.... double standards i see.

 

lol. Nice try.

[LDF]

lol. Nice try.

 

i am being honest.

 

i am not petty as some others appear to be. i don't hide in the weeds to jump on a poster b/c of dislikes of some kind.

 

i have been debating this other question. but since this is your typical response.

 

what would you like to see in the off season.

 

or am i trying to get in a nice one.

[greg775]

I know this board has decided that managers really don't matter at all. And I know a couple posters think I post about the Cubs too much.

 

But I have a question for Robin lovers. ... Do you think if he managed the Cubs this year they'd have been lucky to be .500? I think so. Why? The lack of urgency of his teams. It's always early in Robin-land and White Sox land. There's always the chance the team will get red hot and steal a WC berth. I truly think he couldn't have gotten this young Cub team much above .500 if even above .500.

 

Conversely do you think Maddon could have gotten us a WC? I happen to say yes. We have a GREAT pitching staff and a few good hitters. Call me a moron but I think we have a mediocre to lousy manager and the Cubs unfortunately have a good one as do the Indians. BRING BACK GARDY baby. South SIDE Gardy.

Edited October 16, 2015 by greg775

[GreatScott82]

I know this board has decided that managers really don't matter at all. And I know a couple posters think I post about the Cubs too much.

 

But I have a question for Robin lovers. ... Do you think if he managed the Cubs this year they'd have been lucky to be .500? I think so. Why? The lack of urgency of his teams. It's always early in Robin-land and White Sox land. There's always the chance the team will get red hot and steal a WC berth. I truly think he couldn't have gotten this young Cub team much above .500 if even above .500.

 

Conversely do you think Maddon could have gotten us a WC? I happen to say yes. We have a GREAT pitching staff and a few good hitters. Call me a moron but I think we have a mediocre to lousy manager and the Cubs unfortunately have a good one as do the Indians. BRING BACK GARDY baby. South SIDE Gardy.

I think the only reason this board believes that managers don't matter at all is because the team we love has in fact a manager that can't really manage. Joe Madden is way better than Robin it is not even close.

[caulfield12]

First, Maddon, not to be confused with the former Raiders' coach/broadcaster.

 

Next, Greg, you never cease to amaze me. It's almost like I am imagining Donald Trump typing in your place about sports instead of politics, but in the same inimitable style. You're really beginning to mirror him with your dramatic pronouncements.

 

At any rate, blah blah blah....managers don't matter when the team isn't talented enough, so we just keep retaining Ventura and then dump him when we finally have a good team again and actually need an experienced hand at the helm? Sounds logical, and par for the course with this franchise.

 

After all, there are FOUR (count 'em!) 4 teams in all of professional sports with even worse ratings for coaching (ESPN rankings) than the White Sox. We're not THE worst!!! We might have even moved up 3-5 spots by jettisoning Voldemort Parent.

Edited October 16, 2015 by caulfield12

[nitetrain8601]

I think the only reason this board believes that managers don't matter at all is because the team we love has in fact a manager that can't really manage. Joe Madden is way better than Robin it is not even close.

 

Agreed.

[OmarComing25]

I think the only reason this board believes that managers don't matter at all is because the team we love has in fact a manager that can't really manage. Joe Madden is way better than Robin it is not even close.

No one disagrees that Maddon is a better manager, we're just saying it wouldn't move the needle that much if we don't get better players.

[Vance Law]

No one disagrees that Maddon is a better manager, we're just saying it wouldn't move the needle that much if we don't get better players.

 

Not to mention, Joe Maddon has a job.

 

 

Terry Collins is in the post season for the first time in 11 seasons of managing. It is just his 4th winning season and the first time he's won more than 85 games. He's pretty much been worthless as a manager for 10 years, but this year he is a GREAT manager because he told his team to get into the NLCS.

[Lip Man 1]

No one disagrees that Maddon is a better manager, we're just saying it wouldn't move the needle that much if we don't get better players.

 

I think a good team, a good organization has both. A good manager with a good support staff AND good players.

 

At this point in time, in my opinion, the Sox have a poor manager, at best mediocre help for coaches and very, very little talent. The talent they do have in some areas is very good but it's simply not enough.

 

This is a top heavy team in the sense that you have maybe 6-8 pretty good players who could make just about every MLB team...but the rest of the roster is borderline at best. Many (most?) of them wouldn't even be on the bench for a playoff team.

 

This isn't one or the other in my book. You need both areas to win.

 

Mark

Edited October 16, 2015 by Lip Man 1

[OmarComing25]

I think a good team, a good organization has both. A good manager with a good support staff AND good players.

 

At this point in time, in my opinion, the Sox have a poor manager, at best mediocre help for coaches and very, very little talent. The talent they do have in some areas is very good but it's simply not enough.

 

This is a top heavy team in the sense that you have maybe 6-8 pretty good players who could make just about every MLB team...but the rest of the roster is borderline at best. Many (most?) of them wouldn't even be on the bench for a playoff team.

 

This isn't one or the other in my book. You need both areas to win.

 

Mark

The point is, replacing Robin should be last on the list of priorities. Pretty much every other need is more pressing.

[caulfield12]

The point is, replacing Robin should be last on the list of priorities. Pretty much every other need is more pressing.

 

Not top 4-5, but definitely not LAST.

 

Somewhere in the 5-7 list of priorities. If they had a bench coach who could get through to Puig, I'd definitely take a chance bringing him on board, but that contract's not as attractive as once thought (overall) .

 

 

1. 3B

2. Deciding on Ramirez's fate or replacing him

3. C

4. Finding another starting pitcher if they're attempting to compete or deal Q to fix 2-3 areas of need positionally

5. 2B (odds are that it will be Sanchez, unless Johnson just blows everyone in ST away, is greatly improved defensively and he's 100% healthy and not afraid to test his hamstrings/legs.)

 

6. Ventura/Bell/front office "disorder" straightened out, new bench coach in place

 

7. RF (once again, this could easily be higher, but my sense is they feel they can muddle through with Avi and Thompson somehow)

8. Replacement for Albers/2nd LH reliever

9. Replacements for Soto/Beckham/Bonifacio

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Not top 4-5, but definitely not LAST.

 

Somewhere in the 5-7 list of priorities. If they had a bench coach who could get through to Puig, I'd definitely take a chance bringing him on board, but that contract's not as attractive as once thought (overall) .

 

 

1. 3B-Freese

2. Deciding on Ramirez's fate or replacing him-Replace with Asdrubal

3. C-Wieters

4. Finding another starting pitcher if they're attempting to compete or deal Q to fix 2-3 areas of need positionally

5. 2B (odds are that it will be Sanchez, unless Johnson just blows everyone in ST away, is greatly improved defensively and he's 100% healthy and not afraid to test his hamstrings/legs.)

 

6. Ventura/Bell/front office "disorder" straightened out, new bench coach in place

 

7. RF (once again, this could easily be higher, but my sense is they feel they can muddle through with Avi and Thompson somehow)

8. Replacement for Albers/2nd LH reliever

9. Replacements for Soto/Beckham/Bonifacio

 

 

I want those three guys. Shouldn't break the bank nor cost draft picks (?)

[GreenSox]

7. RF (once again, this could easily be higher, but my sense is they feel they can muddle through with Avi and Thompson somehow)

8. Replacement for Albers/2nd LH reliever

9. Replacements for Soto/Beckham/Bonifacio

LF is at least as big a problem as RF. Puig is a good player; could be great; but he could also just join the Melky/Alexei/Eaton clown show.

They'll need another relieve although could fill it in house. Utility infielder could be solved in house although some platooning which would reduce the number of utility players would be nice

[Bob Sacamano]

Not top 4-5, but definitely not LAST.

 

Somewhere in the 5-7 list of priorities. If they had a bench coach who could get through to Puig, I'd definitely take a chance bringing him on board, but that contract's not as attractive as once thought (overall) .

 

 

1. 3B

2. Deciding on Ramirez's fate or replacing him

3. C

4. Finding another starting pitcher if they're attempting to compete or deal Q to fix 2-3 areas of need positionally

5. 2B (odds are that it will be Sanchez, unless Johnson just blows everyone in ST away, is greatly improved defensively and he's 100% healthy and not afraid to test his hamstrings/legs.)

 

6. Ventura/Bell/front office "disorder" straightened out, new bench coach in place

 

7. RF (once again, this could easily be higher, but my sense is they feel they can muddle through with Avi and Thompson somehow)

8. Replacement for Albers/2nd LH reliever

9. Replacements for Soto/Beckham/Bonifacio

 

Flowers, Saladino, Leury Garcia. Assuming a different starter. The latter two will be cheaper than Beckham and Bonifacio this past year.

[GreenSox]

The point is, replacing Robin should be last on the list of priorities. Pretty much every other need is more pressing.

Not really. Robin can't platoon nor use pinch hitting properly. Thus flawed players who have one excellent aspect of their game ( while weak at something else) are of little use. he doesn't use personnel well.

[OmarComing25]

Not really. Robin can't platoon nor use pinch hitting properly. Thus flawed players who have one excellent aspect of their game ( while weak at something else) are of little use. he doesn't use personnel well.

And how should he have used his personnel this season? It's not like he had a bounty of options. Beckham and Bonaficio completely stunk up the joint at the plate. I think he utilized Shuck/Soto pretty well, and when Saladino came up he stopped using Conor as he should have. Only issue was maybe taking too long to pull the plug on LaRoche, but it's not like there were a lot of better options and it wasn't necessarily a bad idea to see if he could turn it around.

[southsider2k5]

And how should he have used his personnel this season? It's not like he had a bounty of options. Beckham and Bonaficio completely stunk up the joint at the plate. I think he utilized Shuck/Soto pretty well, and when Saladino came up he stopped using Conor as he should have. Only issue was maybe taking too long to pull the plug on LaRoche, but it's not like there were a lot of better options and it wasn't necessarily a bad idea to see if he could turn it around.

 

Totally agreed. The problems weren't as much with the bench, as with starters you had counted on, flopping.

[SCCWS]

I know this board has decided that managers really don't matter at all. And I know a couple posters think I post about the Cubs too much.

 

But I have a question for Robin lovers. ... Do you think if he managed the Cubs this year they'd have been lucky to be .500? I think so. Why? The lack of urgency of his teams. It's always early in Robin-land and White Sox land. There's always the chance the team will get red hot and steal a WC berth. I truly think he couldn't have gotten this young Cub team much above .500 if even above .500.

 

Conversely do you think Maddon could have gotten us a WC? I happen to say yes. We have a GREAT pitching staff and a few good hitters. Call me a moron but I think we have a mediocre to lousy manager and the Cubs unfortunately have a good one as do the Indians. BRING BACK GARDY baby. South SIDE Gardy.

 

Greg: I think t a good manager can take a good team to the playoffs. A poor manager will keep a good team from the playoffs. But I don't think a good manager can take a bad team to the playoffs. I doubt either Maddon or Francona takes this WS team to the playoffs. Not enough talent offensively and a lot of weak defensive players.

[Kyyle23]

I want those three guys. Shouldn't break the bank nor cost draft picks (?)

 

Yikes, three guys who cant exactly stay healthy, all of them to be 30 or older next year. No thanks

[GreenSox]

And how should he have used his personnel this season? It's not like he had a bounty of options. Beckham and Bonaficio completely stunk up the joint at the plate. I think he utilized Shuck/Soto pretty well, and when Saladino came up he stopped using Conor as he should have. Only issue was maybe taking too long to pull the plug on LaRoche, but it's not like there were a lot of better options and it wasn't necessarily a bad idea to see if he could turn it around.

Part of it is chicken and egg. they don't give him platoonable parts because he doesn't know how to platoon. Further, with expanded rosters, he had ability to do things and he still didn't know how to do it (except for Trayce and he was protecting him from righties).

however, to answer your question

1)Micah could have been subbed regularly for defense in late innings. That way, they wouldn't have had to jettison what was the 3rd best hitter on the team.

2)Neither Dunn nor Laroche needed to take many at bats against left handed pitchers.

3)With the lost season, they could have even used Saladino or Olt against lefties, if only to see if they possibly could excel on one side of the plate.

4)In 2014, Gillaspie murdered right handed pitching. Not platooned.

5)Guys like Phegley (defense not up to cooper's standards), Semien (can't play SS), Ravelo (insufficient power for 1B) all had flaws and all were sent away. The first 2 out hit most player on our team. Oakland figured out how to use them (you just don't play Semien at SS). The Sox didn't bother or realized that it's beyond the skill set of the 2 sacred cows managing the dugout.

 

The offense paid dearly for Cooper wanting to protect his ground ball pitchers. Note that Shark, a fly ball pitcher, got no such help from the D. They wouldn't budge the woeful Melky out of left e.g.

 

I'm actually optimistic. I think the Sox have some young talent, if they would use it properly. But they just seem uninterested and would prefer to send it away for some veteran.

Edited October 16, 2015 by GreenSox

[OmarComing25]

Part of it is chicken and egg. they don't give him platoonable parts because he doesn't know how to platoon. Further, with expanded rosters, he had ability to do things and he still didn't know how to do it (except for Trayce and he was protecting him from righties).

however, to answer your question

1)Micah could have been subbed regularly for defense in late innings. That way, they wouldn't have had to jettison what was the 3rd best hitter on the team.

2)Neither Dunn nor Laroche needed to take many at bats against left handed pitchers.

3)With the lost season, they could have even used Saladino or Olt against lefties, if only to see if they possibly could excel on one side of the plate.

4)In 2014, Gillaspie murdered right handed pitching. Not platooned.

5)Guys like Phegley (defense not up to cooper's standards), Semien (can't play SS), Ravelo (insufficient power for 1B) all had flaws and all were sent away. The first 2 out hit most player on our team. Oakland figured out how to use them (you just don't play Semien at SS). The Sox didn't bother or realized that it's beyond the skill set of the 2 sacred cows managing the dugout.

 

The offense paid dearly for Cooper wanting to protect his ground ball pitchers. Note that Shark, a fly ball pitcher, got no such help from the D. They wouldn't budge the woeful Melky out of left e.g.

 

I'm actually optimistic. I think the Sox have some young talent, if they would use it properly. But they just seem uninterested and would prefer to send it away for some veteran.

1) Micah was hitting .270 when he got sent down but slugging below .300, saying he was the third best hitter is a stretch. His defense was really, really bad, he needed to go down and work on it full-time. Also, Robin didn't send him down.

2) Agreed, but I'm not sure that's on Robin. Dunn and LaRoche didn't sign those contracts to become platoon players, and I'm sure Robin would have taken some flack for doing it. Hpwever, I fully expect LaRoche to be used very sparingly against LHP in 2016, it seems things were headed that way by the end of the season.

3) Not sure what the complaint here is, both Saladino and Olt got plenty of playing time at the end of the year, when LaRoche barely played. And Olt's splits were basically the same.

4) Conor had all of 16 PA against LHP this year, not sure what you mean. Problem was his platoon partners couldn't hit LHP either.

5) So Robin traded those players away? Once again I'm not sure what the complaint against Robin here is, Semien and Phegley were hardly ever available for him to use when they were here.