Hahn Confirms: Ventura back for 2016

[LVSoxFan]

You aren't really addressing the real issue here…

 

As the Sox drift further away from their last winning season, and even further away from their last playoff appearance. the fans, season ticket holders, etc.. are left scratching their heads and saying, more or less..

 

"fine and dandy there are roster changes made, but the same people, for a while now, are responsible for making those roster changes, and the same field manager is responsible for squeezing, collectively.. the whole recipe into a winner. it doesn't add up"

 

So in essence, you are holding players accountable for sub par performances by shipping them out.. Why isn't the same standard held for managerial or front office personnel…?

 

Bottom line…good luck convincing the fans that offseason moves in 2016 are gonna come out any differently than previous disappointing years.. Reinsdorf and Co has simply lowered the standard of accountability vs performance in the organization...

 

I've got to wonder at what point does the cratering attendance start to bother JR? Or is attendance truly not affected? But yeah, players can get shipped out and many have (many way too late) but you're right--I've never got the sense that KW's job was in jeopardy since 2005, and he seems to know that.

 

Obviously the Cubs had a plan, and it's paying off big-time now. The Hawks had a plan that Rocky didn't waste any time implementing when he took over. And in that case, Savard was the coach and a sentimental favorite (like you could argue Ventura is) but they didn't waste any time showing him the door to hire Q.

 

Where is that urgency here? I guess what I'm saying is it all falls on JR because KW and management aren't going to fire themselves--only he can do that.

 

We can only live off of 2005 for so long. We deserve better as fans--it's a great fanbase, a great park and should be a worthy rival to the Cubs for Chicagoans' attention. I don't get why we think keeping the same people in charge will produce anything different when it hasn't for 10 years.

 

Before anybody mentions 2008 let's not forget that in reality was a battle between us and Minnesota to see who could blow it and lose the central, and sure enough even though the Blackout game was great fun we got smoked in the first round of the playoffs.

 

[LDF]

I've got to wonder at what point does the cratering attendance start to bother JR? Or is attendance truly not affected? But yeah, players can get shipped out and many have (many way too late) but you're right--I've never got the sense that KW's job was in jeopardy since 2005, and he seems to know that.

 

Obviously the Cubs had a plan, and it's paying off big-time now. The Hawks had a plan that Rocky didn't waste any time implementing when he took over. And in that case, Savard was the coach and a sentimental favorite (like you could argue Ventura is) but they didn't waste any time showing him the door to hire Q.

 

Where is that urgency here? I guess what I'm saying is it all falls on JR because KW and management aren't going to fire themselves--only he can do that.

 

We can only live off of 2005 for so long. We deserve better as fans--it's a great fanbase, a great park and should be a worthy rival to the Cubs for Chicagoans' attention. I don't get why we think keeping the same people in charge will produce anything different when it hasn't for 10 years.

 

Before anybody mentions 2008 let's not forget that in reality was a battle between us and Minnesota to see who could blow it and lose the central, and sure enough even though the Blackout game was great fun we got smoked in the first round of the playoffs.

 

excellent point.

 

the fans may be really apprehensive on the fluff coat of paint being applied when they still see the main problem of terminates eating away at the foundation.

[SCCWS]

Just look at Jim Leyland's career. His first 4 years were very similar to Robin's. Then his players developed, they were great for a few year, became free agents, Leyland starts losing. Goes to the Marlins, they have good players they win 92 games, they sell everyone off, the next year they lose 108. Goes to Colorado, they lose 90, goes to Detroit, and he's good again.

 

Except that Leyland's first year and team were awful and then they got better and won pennants years 5, 6, and 7. Robin's best year was his first and he has not been able to get them to .500 since. But I do think talent is more important than the manager. John Farrell went from 2 mediocre years in Toronto to a WS title in Boston to two bad seasons since. Is he a good manager or a bad one???

Guys like Leyland, Francona, Farrell, Torre, Ozzie etc have had bad years and have won titles. But there are a ton of managers who have never won a title even with good teams. I think the bigger question is can Robin and his coaching staff take a team to a playoff spot even if they have enough talent to do it.

If a company has a product that isn't selling, they better either change the product or change the sales people. Especially since the product on the North side ia getting a whole lot of attention.

 

[OmarComing25]

Before anybody mentions 2008 let's not forget that in reality was a battle between us and Minnesota to see who could blow it and lose the central, and sure enough even though the Blackout game was great fun we got smoked in the first round of the playoffs.

2008 also had the likely AL MVP hurt himself at the beginning of September. If Quentin doesn't throw his bat down in frustration we likely win the division without the need for Game 163 and we could have set-up our rotation for the playoffs. At that point anything could have happened, because the playoffs in baseball are a crapshoot.

[LVSoxFan]

God I had forgotten about that.

[Lip Man 1]

2008 also had the likely AL MVP hurt himself at the beginning of September. If Quentin doesn't throw his bat down in frustration we likely win the division without the need for Game 163 and we could have set-up our rotation for the playoffs. At that point anything could have happened, because the playoffs in baseball are a crapshoot.

 

Just to correct a point, he didn't throw the bat down. After missing a pitch from Cliff Lee he tried swinging the bat into his other cupped hand out of frustration (he was supposed to catch it or cup it in that hand). He missed and the bat struck bone towards the bottom of the hand / wrist breaking it.

 

One of the dumber things a baseball player ever did to himself.

 

Mark

[LDF]

Just to correct a point, he didn't throw the bat down. After missing a pitch from Cliff Lee he tried swinging the bat into his other cupped hand out of frustration (he was supposed to catch it or cup it in that hand). He missed and the bat struck bone towards the bottom of the hand / wrist breaking it.

 

One of the dumber things a baseball player ever did to himself.

 

Mark

 

ahh dumb things players have done to themselves.

 

who was the player who hit the wall with his fist after striking out... broke his hand.

 

[Vance Law]

What you failed to include was that the team scored 961 the year before in 2003. Theo's first year also.

 

I think you missed my point and my sarcasm entirely. My point was that conventional/non-rational wisdom says Terry Francona is a "Bad Manager" because of 4 losing years. Never mind the fact that the team sucked. Then bad manager Terry Francona is hired to take over the Red Sox, wins the World Series, and is now a "Very Good Manager." Never mind the fact that he simply walked into managing an insanely good, 939 run scoring team.

 

How would 2004 Terry Francona have fared with a team of the caliber of the 1999 Phillies?

 

How would Robin Ventura have fared as manager of the 2004 Red Sox?

 

 

[Vance Law]

MLB teams use coaching firings as misdirections. They fire your manager to appease the mob, despite the fact that there's tons of evidence -- observational, anecdotal, sabermetric, and otherwise -- that suggests that the manager has very little, if anything, to do with how well the team performs.

 

Why are you all playing into this? If you want to hold the White Sox accountable for losing, do it by asking why we have Avisail Garcia. Do it by pointing out that there were signs that Adam LaRoche or Alexei Ramirez would fall off a cliff. The players are the ones that are failing. Changing managers will do nothing to help your team, so stop letting the media and PR department "satisfy" you with manager-personnel decisions.

 

Thank you.

[Chicago White Sox]

I'm not sure why so many people seem think the only way to evaluate a manager is by wins & losses. Talent is always going to be the primary driver of on-field results, so using it as a basis of manager performance is pretty stupid. Instead, focus on the things the manager can control. First, Robin has shown time and time again he is a terrible in-game manager. Second, his teams have consistently played fundamentally poor baseball, which he deserves some (not all) blame for. If you actually watch the games, these issues become clear as day. Doesnt matter if the Sox were to win 100 or lose 100, the poor decision making and lack of preparation/accountability would still make Robin a bad manager.

 

 

[caulfield12]

It's quite sad in the modern day, where there are millions of ways to measure receptivity to your product, that this organization has suddenly become so tone deaf and stubborn.

 

 

[greg775]

It's quite sad in the modern day, where there are millions of ways to measure receptivity to your product, that this organization has suddenly become so tone deaf and stubborn.

If we are gonna keep Robin, Jerry should at least demand somebody like Luis Aparicio (if we need to keep it in house) or Cal Ripken come to spring training and teach the guys how to fricking bunt! I can't remember but Cal was such a solid Hall of Famer I assume he was a good bunter. I mean, baseball is not THAT physically demanding a sport. Have the guys out there an hour early each day, Robin, and make them learn how to bunt. I've seen batting practice. They normally make a couple half-assed attempts at bunting then start trying to pull home runs instead of fricking work on their swings. But seriously Robin calls for the bunt and these stiff cannot bunt!! Make them learn how to bunt with Cal Ripken JR.!! Hire Cal as consultant.

 

Then bring in Tim Raines and pay him some spring training money to teach these bums how to run the basepaths. Again ... make these millionaires spend AN HOUR A DAY running the bases and make them learn how to do it! That's two extra hours a day the millionaires must spend on the field. Tell them, "Maybe next spring we won't have to do this if you guys f***ing lay down bunts when called on and actually run the bases well this season!" That would require raising one's voice and being a leader and I am NOT SURE Robin has that in him. Can he speak above a monitone?

 

So bring in Ripken and Raines next spring. Finally, fire Steverson's ass and bring in another hitting coach (Seitzer? Ripken? anybody) who preaches hitting to all fields. Tell the millionaires that hitting into the shift is selfish and sickening and they need to spray the baseball to beat the shift. Tell LaRoche that his 12-home run season forfeits the right to hit into the shift. Since he cannot pull the ball over the fence, DEMAND he go with the pitch or not play in the final year of his contract. Yes, bench him if he hits into the shift.

 

Finally bring in motivational speaker Tony Robbins to talk about TEAMMORK and WINNING. Or Donald Trump to talk about WINNING. Or Ditka! That.Is.My.Suggestion. You can't deny it all starts in da spring!!!

Edited October 6, 2015 by greg775

[fathom]

how about not bunting and getting better hitters

[greg775]

how about not bunting and getting better hitters

 

Yeah but I'm being realistic here. Ventura DOES call for the bunt a lot. He's not going to change in that regard. If it's 2-2 in the sixth and we have a runner on and nobody out, we probably are bunting. So they must learn how to fricking bunt!! Remember watching Lexi try to move a runner or whomever? It's downright horrible and is costing the White Sox ballgames.

Edited October 6, 2015 by greg775

[caulfield12]

If we are gonna keep Robin, Jerry should at least demand somebody like Luis Aparicio (if we need to keep it in house) or Cal Ripken come to spring training and teach the guys how to fricking bunt! I can't remember but Cal was such a solid Hall of Famer I assume he was a good bunter. I mean, baseball is not THAT physically demanding a sport. Have the guys out there an hour early each day, Robin, and make them learn how to bunt. I've seen batting practice. They normally make a couple half-assed attempts at bunting then start trying to pull home runs instead of fricking work on their swings. But seriously Robin calls for the bunt and these stiff cannot bunt!! Make them learn how to bunt with Cal Ripken JR.!! Hire Cal as consultant.

 

Then bring in Tim Raines and pay him some spring training money to teach these bums how to run the basepaths. Again ... make these millionaires spend AN HOUR A DAY running the bases and make them learn how to do it! That's two extra hours a day the millionaires must spend on the field. Tell them, "Maybe next spring we won't have to do this if you guys f***ing lay down bunts when called on and actually run the bases well this season!"

 

So bring in Ripken and Raines next spring. Finally, fire Steverson's ass and bring in another hitting coach (Seitzer? Ripken? anybody) who preaches hitting to all fields. Tell the millionaires that hitting into the shift is selfish and sickening and they need to spray the baseball to beat the shift. Tell LaRoche that his 12-home run season forfeits the right to hit into the shift. Since he cannot pull the ball over the fence, DEMAND he go with the pitch or not play in the final year of his contract. Yes, bench him if he hits into the shift.

 

Finally bring in motivational speaker Tony Robbins to talk about TEAMMORK and WINNING. Or Donald Trump to talk about WINNING. That.Is.My.Suggestion.

 

They've already hired and fired Raines once. That's even less likely than Ozzie returning.

 

Ripken wasn't much of a bunter and still has strong ties to the Orioles...bringing in the all-time leading HR hitter at SS wouldn't be far removed from Frank Thomas.

 

Might as well use Karkovice, Lance Johnson or even Guillen or Cora for that clinic and save some money. Or Buddy Bell, haha. Tom Emanski?

 

Come to think of it, Frank White would be a great choice. His relationship with the Royals is still strained and he clearly wants to be involved in the game, still.

Edited October 6, 2015 by caulfield12

[fathom]

Yeah but I'm being realistic here. Ventura DOES call for the bunt a lot. He's not going to change in that regard. If it's 2-2 in the sixth and we have a runner on and nobody out, we probably are bunting. So they must learn how to fricking bunt!! Remember watching Lexi try to move a runner or whomever? It's downright horrible and is costing the White Sox ballgames.

 

22nd in sac bunts this year, and 6 of those were the light hitting Sanchez. They were dead last in 2014 under Ventura. Find something else to dislike about Ventura.

[greg775]

22nd in sac bunts this year, and 6 of those were the light hitting Sanchez. They were dead last in 2014 under Ventura. Find something else to dislike about Ventura.

 

When it's time for a bunt and we fail, it makes me mad. You can't deny this has happened a lot in his era.

[COACH612]

 

Here is what I wrote yesterday about bringing Ventura back and why Hahn thinks it's a good thing. But here are my questions:

 

 

While also acknowledging a need for tactical improvement, Hahn said the organization believes Ventura capable of making the changes needed to win.

 

“If we didn’t feel as an organization that Robin had the ability to be a championship caliber manager, he wouldn’t be here,” Hahn said. “If we felt we didn’t have a championship caliber hitting coach, he wouldn’t be here.

 

And here lies the problem. Ventura is not the only one to blame for these consecutive losing seasons. He is only part of the problem. But I have some questions.

 

1. Ventura had no managerial experience when hired. After 4 seasons, Ventura has not figured out how to manage at the major league level? He must be a really slow learner then.

 

2. After 4 seasons, how will Ventura change his tactics? All managers have their own way of doing things, so if upper management wants tactical improvements, who will really be making game time decisions?

 

3. How can any White Sox management or fan truly believe they have a championship caliber hitting coach if their offense has truly sucked for several years? All season long LaRoche has struck out 33% of the time. Wouldn't you think the hitting coach can help change his approach at the plate? LaRoche stands straight up. They may work in the NL but perhaps not in the AL. Either LaRoche should have changed or leave him out of the lineup. I have seen way too many swings from the whole team at balls bouncing at 57-59 feet. No plate discipline.

 

4. Base running has been really bad the past several seasons and Ventura refuses to address this. Why? Does he think always running on contact is a good thing? I have seen way too many guys getting doubled off because they break on contact instead of seeing the play develop first. This is basic baseball and that issue falls squarely on the manager. This is a concept players are taught in T-Ball. The fundamentals simply do not change as you age. I believe most were not from hit and runs since the Sox do not have enough good contact hitters so that eliminates a very effective strategy.

 

 

These are just to name a few.

 

 

 

 

 

[LDF]

Here is what I wrote yesterday about bringing Ventura back and why Hahn thinks it's a good thing. But here are my questions:

 

 

While also acknowledging a need for tactical improvement, Hahn said the organization believes Ventura capable of making the changes needed to win.

 

“If we didn’t feel as an organization that Robin had the ability to be a championship caliber manager, he wouldn’t be here,” Hahn said. “If we felt we didn’t have a championship caliber hitting coach, he wouldn’t be here.

 

And here lies the problem. Ventura is not the only one to blame for these consecutive losing seasons. He is only part of the problem. But I have some questions.

 

1. Ventura had no managerial experience when hired. After 4 seasons, Ventura has not figured out how to manage at the major league level? He must be a really slow learner then.

 

2. After 4 seasons, how will Ventura change his tactics? All managers have their own way of doing things, so if upper management wants tactical improvements, who will really be making game time decisions?

 

3. How can any White Sox management or fan truly believe they have a championship caliber hitting coach if their offense has truly sucked for several years? All season long LaRoche has struck out 33% of the time. Wouldn't you think the hitting coach can help change his approach at the plate? LaRoche stands straight up. They may work in the NL but perhaps not in the AL. Either LaRoche should have changed or leave him out of the lineup. I have seen way too many swings from the whole team at balls bouncing at 57-59 feet. No plate discipline.

 

4. Base running has been really bad the past several seasons and Ventura refuses to address this. Why? Does he think always running on contact is a good thing? I have seen way too many guys getting doubled off because they break on contact instead of seeing the play develop first. This is basic baseball and that issue falls squarely on the manager. This is a concept players are taught in T-Ball. The fundamentals simply do not change as you age. I believe most were not from hit and runs since the Sox do not have enough good contact hitters so that eliminates a very effective strategy.

 

 

These are just to name a few.

 

i like it. but you miss one important part.

 

5. this whole system as is needs work. work that if it continues to be neglected, will lead to more fans loosing faith, if they haven't already.

[southsider2k5]

how about not bunting and getting better hitters

 

I thought the team was one of the lowest bunting teams in baseball?

[Eminor3rd]

Just in case anyone was wondering: here's a graph that shows that ranks the managers on challenging calls: http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-ou...ng-plays-100515

[Dick Allen]

Just in case anyone was wondering: here's a graph that shows that ranks the managers on challenging calls: http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-ou...ng-plays-100515

This would matter if every team had the exact same amount of bad calls go against them, in the exact same way. How many times do we see challenges denied that make you scratch your head? But it appears the author needed to praise Joe Maddon.

[fathom]

I thought the team was one of the lowest bunting teams in baseball?

 

Yeah, what I was saying was greg shouldn't worry about them learning to bunt, but instead hoping they work on their approach and/or acquiring better hitters.

[LDF]

Just in case anyone was wondering: here's a graph that shows that ranks the managers on challenging calls: http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-ou...ng-plays-100515

 

nice link. i am surprise on where RV he is rated in the chart.

 

very surprise.

[COACH612]

nice link. i am surprise on where RV he is rated in the chart.

 

very surprise.

 

 

So is RV.