Dick Allen Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 06:41 PM) Yes I did. He sarcastically pointed out why Pederson, Seager, Urias and Puig would be such a throwing darts at the board in the dark move. His epxpalanations were certainly more plausible than Chris Sale not being a sure thing just because you want the Sox to trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If dodgers offered that package I'd add 2-3 lottery ticket prospects and probably do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 06:41 PM) Yes I did. He sarcastically pointed out why Pederson, Seager, Urias and Puig would be such a throwing darts at the board in the dark move. Wasn't really sarcastic, unless you were sarcastic about Sale not being a sure thing. Sale is more likely to still be dealing in 2020 then all four of those players being All-Stars. I actually really like all of those Dodgers players, but I also really liked Gordon Beckham who MLB picked as their future second baseman of the decade and Steve Stone and Derek Jeter were predicting at least one MVP for. If the Dodgers offered all four of those players for Sale, I'd do the trade and sleep easy at night. If it were only two of Pederson/Seager/Urias, Puig and I have to take back Crawford, no dice. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 06:45 PM) His epxpalanations were certainly more plausible than Chris Sale not being a sure thing just because you want the Sox to trade him. QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 06:48 PM) If dodgers offered that package I'd add 2-3 lottery ticket prospects and probably do it. Which package are we talking about? And who's adding lottery tickets, Sox or Dodgers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 47m47 minutes ago How exorbitant is the price on Jose Fernandez? Sources say the Marlins have asked the Dodgers for Julio Urias and Corey Seager. Dodgers said no -- can't imagine Seager going anywhere for anyone -- but the sides have continued talking about plenty, including Fernandez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 08:52 AM) Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 47m47 minutes ago How exorbitant is the price on Jose Fernandez? Sources say the Marlins have asked the Dodgers for Julio Urias and Corey Seager. Dodgers said no -- can't imagine Seager going anywhere for anyone -- but the sides have continued talking about plenty, including Fernandez. So the Dodgers will not be acquiring Sale either obviously with Seager off limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 08:52 AM) Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 47m47 minutes ago How exorbitant is the price on Jose Fernandez? Sources say the Marlins have asked the Dodgers for Julio Urias and Corey Seager. Dodgers said no -- can't imagine Seager going anywhere for anyone -- but the sides have continued talking about plenty, including Fernandez. Nothing exorbitant about that price. Q for Arenado would be a dream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 08:52 AM) Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 47m47 minutes ago How exorbitant is the price on Jose Fernandez? Sources say the Marlins have asked the Dodgers for Julio Urias and Corey Seager. Dodgers said no -- can't imagine Seager going anywhere for anyone -- but the sides have continued talking about plenty, including Fernandez. That's a fair price for Fernandez, I don't see that as exorbitant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 10:46 AM) I hate seeing the comments that say the Sox should trade Sale because of his "injury concerns". How is he that different from any other pitcher? Yeah, he has a funky motion, but he's so tall and lanky that I don't think it's as bad for his elbow/arm/shoulder as people make it out to be. People have said that he's a TJ surgery waiting to happen since the day he was drafted, and nothing significant has happened to him yet. Knock on wood that nothing ever does. He isn't different. Thats why if you can trade him and re-distribute his value at other positions you are more protected in case one player is injured. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 06:54 AM) So the Dodgers will not be acquiring Sale either obviously with Seager off limits. I think Sale should be more valuable than Fernandez.. that guy can't stay healthy and Sale has been doing it at a high level for a longer time in the more difficult AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 J.P Morosi on MLB Network suggested if the Sox don't compete this year. Trade Sale and/or Quintana next off season when the FA market for starting pitchers is weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 11:01 AM) J.P Morosi on MLB Network suggested if the Sox don't compete this year. Trade Sale and/or Quintana next off season when the FA market for starting pitchers is weak. I really think that is the best move if we were to move one of them. The second best FA pitcher next year is Brett freaking Anderson, Sale and Quintana will have 1 fewer year of control by then but the weak market should more than make up for that. Edited December 7, 2015 by OmarComing25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (Knackattack @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 10:56 AM) I think Sale should be more valuable than Fernandez.. that guy can't stay healthy and Sale has been doing it at a high level for a longer time in the more difficult AL Plus he is under control for an additional year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 09:25 AM) That's a fair price for Fernandez, I don't see that as exorbitant. Not for a guy that has only thrown 116 innings in the last two seasons and is already arb eligible. One of the top guys plus some other pieces would make sense but not both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 11:01 AM) J.P Morosi on MLB Network suggested if the Sox don't compete this year. Trade Sale and/or Quintana next off season when the FA market for starting pitchers is weak. iit all depends on whether they truly intend to compete and can put together a roster where you can really don't have to say everything has to go right for the team to win. I do think LDF is accurate when he states the team never seems to be fully committed all in any year. They are at a certain price, but it doesn't appear they would be willing to take on a huge loss if things went wrong. That's fine, it is a business., and these days you don't have to win 98 games to make the playoffs most seasons. Trading those guys is dangerous, and I think the extra year and an alternative to spending $200 million, should make their price tags around peak right now. If the Sox are bad again in 2016, and then they trade these guys, JR needs to clean house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 05:04 PM) Plus he is under control for an additional year. and he is a fa in 3 yrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 11:23 AM) and he is a fa in 3 yrs I am saying Sale has an additional year of control (4), versus Fernandez 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) iit all depends on whether they truly intend to compete and can put together a roster where you can really don't have to say everything has to go right for the team to win. I do think LDF is accurate when he states the team never seems to be fully committed all in any year. They are at a certain price, but it doesn't appear they would be willing to take on a huge loss if things went wrong. That's fine, it is a business., and these days you don't have to win 98 games to make the playoffs most seasons. Trading those guys is dangerous, and I think the extra year and an alternative to spending $200 million, should make their price tags around peak right now. If the Sox are bad again in 2016, and then they trade these guys, JR needs to clean house. I think the biggest issue is that there are too many holes on this team. The foundation is not really in place to compete. They have some pretty high end pieces in Sale, Q, and Abreu, but the foundation that those stars rest upon is pretty weak. Which is entirely the reason I think that rebuild makes sense to build a solid foundation. Then you are ready to compete when Sale becomes a FA and you have the chance to sign him back to be the cherry on top of your playoff run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 11:29 AM) I think the biggest issue is that there are too many holes on this team. The foundation is not really in place to compete. They have some pretty high end pieces in Sale, Q, and Abreu, but the foundation that those stars rest upon is pretty weak. Which is entirely the reason I think that rebuild makes sense to build a solid foundation. Then you are ready to compete when Sale becomes a FA and you have the chance to sign him back to be the cherry on top of your playoff run. If your rebuilding plans include resigning Sale in free agency you might as well just trade him now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Edwards Shot Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I think the Sox will keep Sale no matter what their situation is: rebuild or Band-Aid. Sale has become the face of the franchise now that Paulie is gone. Tickets have to be sold and a team needs at least one recognizable All-Star to do it. I could be wrong, but I'll have to see it to believe that the Sox would trade Sale with his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (Doc Edwards Shot @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 05:56 PM) I think the Sox will keep Sale no matter what their situation is: rebuild or Band-Aid. Sale has become the face of the franchise now that Paulie is gone. Tickets have to be sold and a team needs at least one recognizable All-Star to do it. I could be wrong, but I'll have to see it to believe that the Sox would trade Sale with his contract. excellent point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) iit all depends on whether they truly intend to compete and can put together a roster where you can really don't have to say everything has to go right for the team to win. I do think LDF is accurate when he states the team never seems to be fully committed all in any year. They are at a certain price, but it doesn't appear they would be willing to take on a huge loss if things went wrong. That's fine, it is a business., and these days you don't have to win 98 games to make the playoffs most seasons. Trading those guys is dangerous, and I think the extra year and an alternative to spending $200 million, should make their price tags around peak right now. If the Sox are bad again in 2016, and then they trade these guys, JR needs to clean house. I saw what he said this morning. JP brought up the idea that they could move Sale or Q, the hosts disagreed that the Sox should do that. JP asked them if they could see the Sox competing with the Royals in the next 2 years, and if that answer is no then they should be open to it. He followed that up by saying that haul wise they may be best to wait one more year because the next free agent class is light on top flight starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I think there is a crucial re-adjustment happening in expectations re: pitching value in trades. Prior to the offseason heating up, we saw a lot of "why would they give up a bunch of prospects if they can just sign x". In addition to that, there was a lot of "piching can be found now, hitting is the bigger commodity". Now, the numbers are in, and its clear pitching is still as valuable as ever. Except, so far, it seems in the face of that, GMs are still unwilling to give up equal value for pitching, but instead are trying to make a dominant bullpen. That worked for the Royals, but the Yankees put together a great bunch last year and finished out of the playoffs. I wonder at what point the shoe drops and some big packages for pitchers go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 06:13 PM) I think there is a crucial re-adjustment happening in expectations re: pitching value in trades. Prior to the offseason heating up, we saw a lot of "why would they give up a bunch of prospects if they can just sign x". In addition to that, there was a lot of "piching can be found now, hitting is the bigger commodity". Now, the numbers are in, and its clear pitching is still as valuable as ever. Except, so far, it seems in the face of that, GMs are still unwilling to give up equal value for pitching, but instead are trying to make a dominant bullpen. That worked for the Royals, but the Yankees put together a great bunch last year and finished out of the playoffs. I wonder at what point the shoe drops and some big packages for pitchers go down. an excellent... excellent topic. for me i will use one example. per mlb trade rumor this morning, the situation with cueto - sp, he or his agent stated that a contract that offered to him this weekend was at 20 per and the going rate for the amount of yrs. now without any embellishment, it was reported that that was too low of a salary. so in essence the perceived worth of pitchers are really higher than before, i would almost say way higher. they are taking advantage, lets say in the trickle down value of price and zach g. signing this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If the Sox plan on dealing Sale, I just don't see them finding a suitable return for him until mid 2017 or 2018 at the earliest. He's too valuable right now and no team will pay up for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2015 -> 05:14 PM) iit all depends on whether they truly intend to compete and can put together a roster where you can really don't have to say everything has to go right for the team to win. I do think LDF is accurate when he states the team never seems to be fully committed all in any year. They are at a certain price, but it doesn't appear they would be willing to take on a huge loss if things went wrong. That's fine, it is a business., and these days you don't have to win 98 games to make the playoffs most seasons. Trading those guys is dangerous, and I think the extra year and an alternative to spending $200 million, should make their price tags around peak right now. If the Sox are bad again in 2016, and then they trade these guys, JR needs to clean house. ref the bold. many thanks. for an example miami, now i been watching the maimi situation for the last 2 weeks. the owners are in a pissing contest with Ozuna-of, and dee gordon will not sign a favorable team friendly extension with the team as of sat. so they was to move 2 players. with those 2 players, is my assumption, without the cupboard being somewhat bare, they just might do an under the table rebuild .... if that is the case ozuna and gordon and prado and fernadez being avail for major prospects. hence the price of this morning with the dodgers as a point in case. Edited December 7, 2015 by LDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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