Why NOT trade Chris Sale?

[SCCWS]

Yep, Betts quietly had a great year (5 WAR). I've said all along it would have to be a package of something like Betts, E. Rodriguez, Swihart and a good prospect. Unfortunately I don't think Boston would do something like that.

 

But Dombrowski is more of a gunslinger than the previous regime so anything is possible. Betts besides the offense is a very good outfielder. But Bradley is considered a great outfielder and will push Betts to a corner next year. Add castillo and they have 3 young outfielders so they may trade one if FA market does not get them enough pitching. P)lus they have 2 solid young catchers as long as Vazuez comes back okay from TJ surgery. My guess is Hahn will trade elsewhere especially since the Avi trade did not go as well as expected w Dombrowski.

 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

You wouldn't trade Sale for Schwarber, Torres, Bryant, and Baez?

 

I see your point but if they make a "too good to refuse" offer then I'd take it.

Switch Torres with Russell and I'd consider it, but again, it would be very depressing to see him pitch for the Cubs.

[LDF]

Nor should they, with all their abundant resources, the number of pitchers on the market this year...they're essentially in the same position as the Cubs last off-season.

 

As badly as the Porcello, Ramirez and Sandoval moves went for them, they're always one great off-season away from being back in instant contention again, although Toronto's going to be a tough out for the near future.

 

this pains me for even thinking of this. but the northside will be a hell of a team to really beat in the future. they may not even to need to trade a #1 sp,when the fa's is right around the corner.

 

their farm is loaded.... really loaded. even with up and coming pitchers. but it is right now. now add a price, a cueto, bringing him back to the NL.

 

this is what i am looking at. can they implode again as they did when they had a group of promising players in their system.

[fathom]

Switch Torres with Russell and I'd consider it, but again, it would be very depressing to see him pitch for the Cubs.

 

Ha, you'd just "consider" it for Bryant, Schwarber, Russell and Baez?

[Knackattack]

Chris Sale's ability and contract impacts every game of the season because if we didn't have him at the contract he is signed too we'd be looking at a guy like Shark getting 100mil to pitch every 5 games. Sale's contract lets us spend money on position players that having any other ace wouldn't allow.

[OmarComing25]

Boston is going to finish just under .500, and that's with Porcello and Sandoval being far worse than anyone could reasonably expect. They sign a top SP and even if they do nothing else, I could easily see them winning 90+ games next year if those two guys bounce back a little.

[fathom]

Boston is going to finish just under .500, and that's with Porcello and Sandoval being far worse than anyone could reasonably expect. They sign a top SP and even if they do nothing else, I could easily see them winning 90+ games next year if those two guys bounce back a little.

 

LaRoche, Sandoval, VMart and Hanley 4 worst offensive players this year.

[OmarComing25]

Even using my preferred "we're not competitive in 2016 and we need to act like it" model, there's no reason why this team can't be back to the top of the division in 2017 or 2018. We've got at least 1 more shot before the pressure really starts to rise to move him.

 

When the White Sox do their "all in" thing again next year, trade Quintana for some career NL hitter close to free agency and come back totally surprised that the 2016 roster flopped just like the 2015 roster, then suddenly we'll have Sale for only 3 years and we'll be staring another year that should be a developmental year in the face. That's when the pressure starts rising.

 

The time when I'd guess the price for Sale would line up with the price teams would pay for Sale will come sometime around 2017-2018. Moving everything for a guy with 2-2.5 years remaining is a gamble teams will take and one that would make sense for the White Sox. Of course, they'll still be insisting that their 15 games under .500 team is right there, so we won't even do that.

Thanks, now I'm going to have nightmares about us trading Quintana for Frazier, who proceeds to put up a sub-.700 OPS here. Really really hope they're planning for 2017, if we catch some breaks (LaRoche bouncing back, Sale pitching like 2014, two of Thompson/Saladino/Sanchez hitting well enough to stick with their defense, Johnson pitching much better than Samardzija this year), we could still contend next year, but don't expect it and don't sacrifice any pieces for 2017 or tie yourself down with more big contracts. That really is the best move at this point.

[ewokpelts]

Boston is going to finish just under .500, and that's with Porcello and Sandoval being far worse than anyone could reasonably expect. They sign a top SP and even if they do nothing else, I could easily see them winning 90+ games next year if those two guys bounce back a little.

They have a little run after the manager get left to fight cancer. That's it. That team is in worse shape than the white sox, just with a 200 million dollar payroll.

[ewokpelts]

Believe it or note, but market for sale is actually quite small.

Teams like the Dodgers and Yankees have money to blow and will usually just get a guy in free agency. Teams with impact players/ can't miss prospects like the Cubs won't want to part with their own cost controlled talent.

 

The sox aren't "screwed" in this situation, but they really can't explore every option. Better to build around sale( which they did in the rotation, even if it's lefty heavy), and bank on his loyalty paying off in the next contract.

[Balta1701]

They have a little run after the manager get left to fight cancer. That's it. That team is in worse shape than the white sox, just with a 200 million dollar payroll.

They've got more dead money with those guys than we have on our roster but they still have some flexibility. Assuming they pick up options on both Buchholz and Ortiz, they'll be close to $150 million committed for 2016 and their payroll this year is $175M. They've probably got the money for ~1 big name, maybe that plus a few guys if they move some stuff around.

 

But really, they're not going to be much better if they can't get Sandoval and Ramirez and Porcello to at least play closer to their contracts. That's $60 million next year. You can't replace that on the Free Agent market even if you're the Yankees.

 

 

[OmarComing25]

Believe it or note, but market for sale is actually quite small.

Teams like the Dodgers and Yankees have money to blow and will usually just get a guy in free agency. Teams with impact players/ can't miss prospects like the Cubs won't want to part with their own cost controlled talent.

 

The sox aren't "screwed" in this situation, but they really can't explore every option. Better to build around sale( which they did in the rotation, even if it's lefty heavy), and bank on his loyalty paying off in the next contract.

Have to agree with you there. I doubt we'll be able to get the haul we're seeking. The Cubs wouldn't do a Bryant-Sale trade straight-up, and I probably wouldn't do it if I were them either. Same with the Red Sox and Betts.

[fathom]

Have to agree with you there. I doubt we'll be able to get the haul we're seeking. The Cubs wouldn't do a Bryant-Sale trade straight-up, and I probably wouldn't do it if I were them either. Same with the Red Sox and Betts.

 

Red Sox would absolutely trade Betts for Sale, IMO

[Bigsoxhurt35]

The market for Sale would be an all time high. Ya you could go spend the fortune on someone like Price but Sale is a great young LHP under reasonable control and hitting his prime.

[OmarComing25]

The market for Sale would be an all time high. Ya you could go spend the fortune on someone like Price but Sale is a great young LHP under reasonable control and hitting his prime.

Maybe if the free agent SP was thin I could see that, but it's the best it's been since I can remember, so I don't see how that doesn't affect the market for Sale.

[OmarComing25]

Red Sox would absolutely trade Betts for Sale, IMO

On second thought you're right, but he certainly isn't going to be headlining a huge haul. Maybe him and one decent prospect.

Edited October 3, 2015 by OmarComing25

[ewokpelts]

The only way I can see the sox trading sale would be to shed dead weight elsewhere. I.e. Danks or the born again idiot laroche.

[GGajewski18]

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=2...ed&sid=milb

 

Because no team would pay the price of 2 or 4 Byron Buxton's or Corey Seager's.

 

His value is that high.

Edited December 4, 2015 by SoxPride18

[Panerista]

The market for Sale would be an all time high. Ya you could go spend the fortune on someone like Price but Sale is a great young LHP under reasonable control and hitting his prime.

Unfortunately, while the value of Sale is sky high, the perceived value of prospects now is ridiculous thanks to recent success out of Houston, Kansas City, and Pittsburgh.

 

No team likely feels they can reasonably afford a Sale trade. The Sox would have to come down and I'm not sure I would want them to.

Edited December 4, 2015 by AustinIllini

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - trading Sale now is a terrible idea.

[bighurt574]

I don't know how we'd ever get equal value for Sale right now. I'd try to build a team around him for another year or two. If that's not going well two years from now, we could still get a major haul for him then (assuming he's healthy). Not much reason to give up the next year or two of Sale unless some crazy offer comes along.

Edited December 4, 2015 by bighurt574

[harfman77]

You look at the package Boston supposedly offered for King Felix. If the Sox got the same players for Sale, they have weakened their team. Yeah, you might not win keepimg Sale, but to think you would win trading him isn't logical.

 

If the goal is to get an immediate boost in your farm system ranking, or you plan to suck for a few years, trade him. If you want to win games, and have the guy who starts game 1 of every playoff series on the roster, you keep him.

 

With the contract he has, to pick up his production somewhere else, it would cost a fortune.

 

And then you look at the package that Cleveland got for Bartolo Colon. There are examples of one sided trades in both directions you can cite. You can see what Boston offered, you it wasn't accepted so obviously the Mariners knew it wasn't going to be enough. I have been against trading Sale up to this point, but, I don't see a way that this team improves when so much of their organizational player value is wrapped up in guys that appear in less than 40% of their games. Something needs to change. Ir has been let slip that it will take a small army to acquire Q, it will take a larger army to get Sale. If Dombroski called tomorrow and offered Rodriguez, Swihart, JBJ, Devers and Moncada thats a trade I would have a hard time justifying turning down.

[Dick Allen]

And then you look at the package that Cleveland got for Bartolo Colon. There are examples of one sided trades in both directions you can cite. You can see what Boston offered, you it wasn't accepted so obviously the Mariners knew it wasn't going to be enough. I have been against trading Sale up to this point, but, I don't see a way that this team improves when so much of their organizational player value is wrapped up in guys that appear in less than 40% of their games. Something needs to change. Ir has been let slip that it will take a small army to acquire Q, it will take a larger army to get Sale. If Dombroski called tomorrow and offered Rodriguez, Swihart, JBJ, Devers and Moncada thats a trade I would have a hard time justifying turning down.

Teams don't give that up anymore. That is why, despite all the prospects Boston has to acquire an ace, they overbid every other team by more than $30 million to get Price. You can get lucky, and have some secondary guys pan out, but the overwhelming offer isn't going to be there.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Dick Allen

[OmarComing25]

And then you look at the package that Cleveland got for Bartolo Colon. There are examples of one sided trades in both directions you can cite. You can see what Boston offered, you it wasn't accepted so obviously the Mariners knew it wasn't going to be enough. I have been against trading Sale up to this point, but, I don't see a way that this team improves when so much of their organizational player value is wrapped up in guys that appear in less than 40% of their games. Something needs to change. Ir has been let slip that it will take a small army to acquire Q, it will take a larger army to get Sale. If Dombroski called tomorrow and offered Rodriguez, Swihart, JBJ, Devers and Moncada thats a trade I would have a hard time justifying turning down.

Just because a SP only pitches once every 5 days doesn't mean they aren't as valuable as position players. And DA is right, the days of overwhelming prospect offers are over. Everyone loves their prospects now, and GMs are going to be too gun-shy to pull the trigger on the deal it would take, especially with the general risk that pitchers have.

[harfman77]

Just because a SP only pitches once every 5 days doesn't mean they aren't as valuable as position players. And DA is right, the days of overwhelming prospect offers are over. Everyone loves their prospects now, and GMs are going to be too gun-shy to pull the trigger on the deal it would take, especially with the general risk that pitchers have.

 

I just saw an overwhelming prospect deal for a closer a week ago. Those days are not over, actually I think things are going to start moving more in that direction again since you have a few teams with such a large concentration of prospects that are trying to win now (Red Sox, Dodgers, Cubs).