nitetrain8601 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:02 PM) As a Sox fan, it would really suck being stuck watching Sale pitch his prime years on the South Side. Gawd how depressing that idea is. As a Sox fan, it would really suck being stuck watching Sale pitch his prime years on the South Side, striking out 10, giving up one run and losing. Don't put a man over the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:06 PM) Sale's contract is maybe worth another top 5 prospect. You guys aren't even asking for that. You guys are asking for Seager, Pederson, Urias at minimum. There's no precedent for that. Hell, Atlanta is only asking for Pollock for Miller. Right. The fact is you are showing us why Chris Sale cannot be traded. We all are overvaluing the return because that is exactly what would have to happen for him to leave at this juncture. Pollock is pretty awesome. I would trad Q straight up for him myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:06 PM) Sale's contract is maybe worth another top 5 prospect. You guys aren't even asking for that. You guys are asking for Seager, Pederson, Urias at minimum. There's no precedent for that. Hell, Atlanta is only asking for Pollock for Miller. Sale is an infinitely better pitcher than Miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 05:10 PM) Right. The fact is you are showing us why Chris Sale cannot be traded. We all are overvaluing the return because that is exactly what would have to happen for him to leave at this juncture. Pollock is pretty awesome. I would trad Q straight up for him myself. So instead of filling up two gaps with players who are cost controlled as well, are every day players, and top 10 prospects within the last year, you rather hold onto Sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:30 PM) So instead of filling up two gaps with players who are cost controlled as well, are every day players, and top 10 prospects within the last year, you rather hold onto Sale? Yes. I have an absolute that is signed to a ridiculously cheap contract. 2 maybes don't equal that in any way. Sale has 4 years $47 million on his contract . JA Happ got 3 years and 36 million. Keep that in mind. Edited December 5, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 03:07 PM) But you can. There's no justifying what you guys are asking for. Yes, I want the Dodgers top 5 prospects as well, 3 of which are MLB ready. But that ain't happening. Then there's no reason to trade him. Massive Godfather offer or he stays. It's that simple. It's one of best contract bargains in all of baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I would think that a team on a limited payroll would be interested and would be willing to pay the premium in players that the low salaries of our pitchers warrant. Someone like Houston. A team like Boston would/should pay the talent in return for talent, but they wouldn't get as much premium out of the low salary. But you don't trade for less than the value of the player + contract. Edited December 5, 2015 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:06 PM) Sale's contract is maybe worth another top 5 prospect. You guys aren't even asking for that. You guys are asking for Seager, Pederson, Urias at minimum. There's no precedent for that. Hell, Atlanta is only asking for Pollock for Miller. Miller isn't signed for the next 4 years and Sale is better than he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 05:34 PM) Then there's no reason to trade him. Massive Godfather offer or he stays. It's that simple. It's one of best contract bargains in all of baseball. And the Dodgers better be ok with missing the playoffs this season if those guys need 1-2 years to adapt to the big leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:36 PM) And the Dodgers better be ok with missing the playoffs this season if those guys need 1-2 years to adapt to the big leagues. They'll sign Cueto and another starter and be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:08 PM) As a Sox fan, it would really suck being stuck watching Sale pitch his prime years on the South Side, striking out 10, giving up one run and losing. Don't put a man over the team. I'm not putting him over the team and in fact thinking about the team first and foremost as I always do. I've said it before that I believe the Sox can fill some positional holes without trading Sale or Q. Look around the board, there's plenty of ideas floating around that make sense. The Sox don't have to score a ton of runs with the starting pitching they have and they don't need to trade for or sign the big ticket names in order to improve their pathetic offense. It's not just about offense either, improving their pathetic defense will help win games too. Offense is only one lacking aspect of this team. Trading Sale or Q does not guarantee anything as far as the future of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 05:38 PM) They'll sign Cueto and another starter and be just fine. And if they're content with that move...spending a lot of money in a lateral move in a division that just got better...then more power to them. The other side of that would be....Sale's contract is *SO* cheap, they could still sign Cueto and a FA or two to fill positions of guys they traded away and actually be a better team overall. But if they're content with where they are right now, spending money to stay level in a division with Arizona making a move, then that's their call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:06 PM) Sale's contract is maybe worth another top 5 prospect. You guys aren't even asking for that. You guys are asking for Seager, Pederson, Urias at minimum. There's no precedent for that. Hell, Atlanta is only asking for Pollock for Miller. Shelby Miller is a #3. I agree that Pollack for Miller is a substantial overpay by Arizona. Sale is an ace, signed for 4 more years cheap. Yes, I think a trade of Sale for full value would help the team a lot. No reason to trade him for less than that. I would say two top 10s and two others. Edited December 5, 2015 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 11:30 PM) So instead of filling up two gaps with players who are cost controlled as well, are every day players, and top 10 prospects within the last year, you rather hold onto Sale? i will pipe in b/c i gave a scenario as well, the answer is a simple yes, b/c of the great contract, b/c of who is being traded, yes if they expect anything better and finally yes b/c if they don't the sox will walk and someone else might step in with an offer the sox wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 10:47 PM) Red Sox flat out told Minny they weren't going to give up both Ellsbury and Lester in the same deal. The Yanks offered Melky, Phil Hughes and a lower level prospect. And at the time, Johan was seen as the sure-fire, no doubt about it, best pitcher in baseball. The Twins wanted two of the three (which might I add, is less than what you guys are demanding from the Dodgers) Ellsbury, Lester Bucholz. Boston countered with Lowrie (not a top 10 prospect in their system at the time), Ellz OR Lester, and Coco Crisp. On top they added a lower level pitcher, possibly Justin Masterson who wasn't a top 10 prospect in their system at the time either. So Red Sox: Ellsbury or Lester Lowrie (not a top 10 prospect in their system at the time) Crisp (MLB player) possibly Justin Masterson (not a top 10 prospect) http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...007/262814.html Yankees: Phil Hughes (#1 Yankees Prospect) Melky Cabrera(MLB Player) third prospect who they refused to to be one of their top ones (Kennedy, Horne or Austin Jackson) http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...007/262804.html http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3138088 So despite what you may or may not feel. There is no precedent for asking for the crazy packages you guys are asking for. you can not just use examples of the past to justify today's market value of players. plus he is an elite sp. go back to the randy johnson trade time. esp with what Sea was asking from the sox..... 4 sp's and a hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 05:36 PM) And the Dodgers better be ok with missing the playoffs this season if those guys need 1-2 years to adapt to the big leagues. The Dodgers aren't missing the playoffs. And Pederson was a huge part of that last year. Seager will be this year. And they are looking at Zobrist as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:06 PM) Sale's contract is maybe worth another top 5 prospect. You guys aren't even asking for that. You guys are asking for Seager, Pederson, Urias at minimum. There's no precedent for that. Hell, Atlanta is only asking for Pollock for Miller. No offense, but the more you post about this the more convinced I am you don't understand the economics of baseball. Comparing Shelby Miller to Sale is comical. As is one year of Johan Santana at "market value" versus 4 years of Sale, two of which are options, at at AAV of about $20-20M below his market value. That isn't worth one prospect, and if that's what you believe, I won't be able to convince you otherwise. But I can assure you that the Sox won't trade Sale unless they are absolutely blown away. In my mind, Seager and Pederson is a nice start to the package. But at least two more top prospects or young controllable MLB players would need to be included to get the Sox to even consider moving Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 12:01 AM) Sox aren't getting Seager, Pederson, Urias and DeLeon for Sale. You have to be smoking serious rocks if you think that. Your best bet is to get two of those guys and maybe Puig while also taking on Carl Crawford's contract. I would do that in a heartbeat. 2 + Puig + Crawford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 06:17 PM) The Dodgers aren't missing the playoffs. And Pederson was a huge part of that last year. Seager will be this year. And they are looking at Zobrist as well. Aaaaand not having a 19-3 Greinke in the rotation means nothing? That rotation (sans Kershaw) isn't all that great. Don't be shocked with what they'd give up for a pitcher like Sale...not to mention the contract that he has. To sit there and definitively say "ain't happening" really is condescending since you're not part of the Dodgers ownership group. Don't underestimate what SF moves would make them do either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 04:50 PM) You guys are still talking about Puig as a player worth acquiring a week after a domestic violence incident??? QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 05:02 PM) F*** that, I wouldn't care if we had the best change of scenery record in the league, he's useless and basically valueless right now. Per agreement last season the commish has a right to suspend a guy with no limit for domestic violence incidents. At least let the investigation finish first, at this rate another incident and he could be suspended for a season. And that's on top of the joy of "acquiring guys with domestic violence incidents" in their background. QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 06:25 PM) I would do that in a heartbeat. 2 + Puig + Crawford. Repeating this. Puig right now should be viewed as worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 06:25 PM) I would do that in a heartbeat. 2 + Puig + Crawford. Apparently that's a severe underpayment by the Dodgers. You guys are also right, I shouldn't compare Santana with Sale because Santana was by far the best pitcher in baseball at the time of the trade and of his generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I agree with Balta...EFF Puig! Not worth the hassle...or image problem. So you guys would want Ray Rice on the Bears too?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 06:27 PM) Repeating this. Puig right now should be viewed as worthless. Even with last year, look at his stats and his age and his health. He's far from worthless. He has down value, but he ain't worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 06:30 PM) Even with last year, look at his stats and his age and his health. He's far from worthless. He has down value, but he ain't worthless. None of that matters if he's suspended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 06:31 PM) None of that matters if he's suspended. But he hasn't been. None of it matters unless he's kicked from the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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