Has trayce won CF?

[bmags]

Listen, here's the reality:

 

There are 2 outfield spots that have players you can upgrade over with dynamic talent. You don't hold their spots for them.

 

But if you can't upgrade without spending $200 million on a player on the wrong side of 30 who will almost certainly have the worst year of their career as a member of the white sox, then I would rather roll with a better defensive outfield with Trayce Thompson than going on with the Avi Garcia project.

 

Getting our pitchers ERAs closer to their FIP would be helpful to flip some of them or help us win games.

 

Believing Trayce should be a part of the team next year does not mean you believe he'll be an all star. BUt we have very crappy players.

[LDF]

It serves more as a reminder that after a really hot start, he hit about like he hit in his time in the minors. He hasn't "won" anything yet.

 

plus he played a whole season in the majors,

 

one can't look at 1 month and use it to make a point.

[bmags]

Oh and I would be a lot more surprised if Thompson is hitting .270/.340/.400 at the end of next April than I would be if he was 2-38.

 

I'm no longer surprised at any of our hitters being 2-38 in April.

[cabiness42]

Do they have the option of Avi in AAA?

 

I've yet to find a source with definitive lists of players' option status, but the best I can tell the only years he used options were in 2012 and 2013, which would mean he has one left.

[shysocks]

i really don't know how to put this, so here is my attempt to being nice....

 

you would rather deal in mediocre instead of striving to becoming better.

 

i can't see why.

That's not really what I said at all, but okay.

[OmarComing25]

Believing Trayce should be a part of the team next year does not mean you believe he'll be an all star. But we have very crappy players.

Thank you. Wanting Trayce to play doesn't mean assuming he'll put up a .900 OPS again, he doesn't have a very high bar to clear to be one of our three best options for the OF at this point, barring spending a lot of money in FA or giving up assets through a trade.

[LDF]

That's not really what I said at all, but okay.

 

haha this is too funny, at least while i am writing this. this phrase was used the other day on me.

 

compare and contrast.

 

what i took from your statement was you are comparing to the 2005 roster and may be using that as the platform to gage everything.

 

i am inferring that a modern platform or don't use a plat form but to create a new standard to get new players in the system. strive to get and do better... the old ideas of how to look at FA's needs to be thrown out the window.

[LDF]

Thank you. Wanting Trayce to play doesn't mean assuming he'll put up a .900 OPS again, he doesn't have a very high bar to clear to be one of our three best options for the OF at this point, barring spending a lot of money in FA or giving up assets through a trade.

 

i disagree. it is that the fans are tried of the s***ting defense and wants a better defensive player to help in the games.

 

sometimes it is the case to sacrifice a position for better defense, if the rest of the team can carry it, but this team can't.

 

it is happening all at once, frustration for what the FO has given the fans to swallow.

[Eminor3rd]

Trayce ran a .340+ BABIP and slashed his MiLB K-rate by roughly 20%. These are things that must be seen over a much larger sample to be believed.

 

He's still much more likely to be a mediocre to bad hitter in the MLB than a good one. That said, he'll be a plus defender who can do some damage on the basepaths, and he has shown an ability and a willingness to commit to a reasonable approach to plate discipline, so he's much better than Avisail Garcia in my book.

[shysocks]

haha this is too funny, at least while i am writing this. this phrase was used the other day on me.

 

compare and contrast.

 

what i took from your statement was you are comparing to the 2005 roster and may be using that as the platform to gage everything.

 

i am inferring that a modern platform or don't use a plat form but to create a new standard to get new players in the system. strive to get and do better... the old ideas of how to look at FA's needs to be thrown out the window.

None of that has anything to do with what I wrote. I made no mention of the 2005 roster. I was explaining one way that the standard for offense in baseball has gone down in the last ten years. I referred to 2006 because that was the year Brian Anderson got his shot, so it was relevant.

 

Don't attack me without first understanding what I'm saying.

[LDF]

None of that has anything to do with what I wrote. I made no mention of the 2005 roster. I was explaining one way that the standard for offense in baseball has gone down in the last ten years. I referred to 2006 because that was the year Brian Anderson got his shot, so it was relevant.

 

Don't attack me without first understanding what I'm saying.

 

i did not attack i even wrote that in the post. look see.

 

that is why i wrote what or the way i wrote that, b/c i wasn't sure.

[BlackSox13]

Thompson hasn't won any job but he's certainly put himself ahead of Avi Garcia in RF. Whether the team wants to retool or rebuild, I can't see any scenario where the FO can argue that Avi is a better fit than Thompson. People say I am a Thompson hater but I think he's better than Avi across the board. Thompson's contact rate, walk rate and offensive success will not translate over to next year but he can certainly make a positive impact to the team. I don't think Garcia can.

 

My fear is we come back with Melky/Eaton/Avi/Thompson/LaRoche for the three outfield spots and DH. If the team wants to improve they need to move forward from either Avi or Cabrera. Avi is just a lot easier to cut bait from because he doesn't provide any value other than the outside chance he changes his swing/approach and improves his terrible defense over one winter. He's essentially free. Cut the cord... I worry about him becoming the next Beckham/Viciedo. The fact of the matter is the Sox need to improve at 3B, SS, C and OF/DH. 3B is the must and C/SS are going to be really tough. The team needs to get creative at the OF/DH spot and infuse either/both offense or defense there. I hate pointing to the Cubs for a good example of what to do but look at them bringing in Coghlan and Fowler over the past two seasons. These are very low cost acquisitions that have given them plus contributors and flexibility. Either one of those guys would be one of the best three offensive players on the Sox. The Sox need to start converting on their supplementary pieces.

Good post raBBit. I'm beginning to lean towards moving on from Avi myself. I've been one the fans saying Avi is young and should get another year to see if he can improve but I'm losing faith quickly. Looking at his numbers over a full season is disheartening as a fan. Poor plate discipline, poor pitch recognition, piss poor defense etc leave too much to be desired.

 

It's too bad LaRoche is pretty much un-tradable. Would love to see an OF of Eaton, Thompson, Parra with Shuck as #4 OF and Melky moved to DH. Time to get back to pitching, speed and defense; the way Baseball should be played.

 

 

[Sox Fan In Husker Land]

his walk rate in the big leagues this year was twice his walk rate at Charlotte.

 

Trayce ran a .340+ BABIP and slashed his MiLB K-rate by roughly 20%. These are things that must be seen over a much larger sample to be believed.

 

He's still much more likely to be a mediocre to bad hitter in the MLB than a good one. That said, he'll be a plus defender who can do some damage on the basepaths, and he has shown an ability and a willingness to commit to a reasonable approach to plate discipline, so he's much better than Avisail Garcia in my book.

 

In the seasons where Thompson had more than 135 PA (I used that because that is what he had with the Sox this year, and yes I realize that is a small sample size) he always had a walk rate above 8.8%, except this year at AAA. His walk rate with the Sox was very similar to his walk rate throughout his time in the minors, except this year at AAA. His walk rate may have fell off this year at AAA to an all time low for him, but his K rate had also dropped 4.7% below his previous best in the minors. His improved K rate had also stayed with him in his call up to the Sox. His K rate had been going down every year except 2014. Did he change something in his approach? Did the light bulb go on for him?

 

His career ISO in the minors is .208. His BABIP was also about .300 for his full seasons in the minors. I think it is reasonable to expect him to put up a .235/.305/.405 line next year over a full season.

 

Trayce Thompson stats in leagues he made at least 135 PA's

A (19) G 58 BB% 8.9% K% 29.4% ISO .205 BABIP .296 wRC+ 106

A (20) G 136 BB% 10.1% K% 28.8% ISO .216 BABIP .309 wRC+ 114

A+ (21) G 116 BB% 8.8% K% 28.2% ISO .232 BABIP .316 wRC+ 120

AA (22) G 135 BB% 10.2% K% 23.6% ISO .154 BABIP .280 wRC+ 107

AA (23) G 133 BB% 10.9% K% 25.4% ISO .181 BABIP .301 wRC+ 108

AAA (24) G 104 BB% 5.5% K% 18.9% ISO .180 BABIP .295 wRC+ 114

MLB (24) G 44 BB% 9.6% K% 19.3% ISO .238. BABIP .341 wRC+ 144

[Y2Jimmy0]

In the seasons where Thompson had more than 135 PA (I used that because that is what he had with the Sox this year, and yes I realize that is a small sample size) he always had a walk rate above 8.8%, except this year at AAA. His walk rate with the Sox was very similar to his walk rate throughout his time in the minors, except this year at AAA. His walk rate may have fell off this year at AAA to an all time low for him, but his K rate had also dropped 4.7% below his previous best in the minors. His improved K rate had also stayed with him in his call up to the Sox. His K rate had been going down every year except 2014. Did he change something in his approach? Did the light bulb go on for him?

 

His career ISO in the minors is .208. His BABIP was also about .300 for his full seasons in the minors. I think it is reasonable to expect him to put up a .235/.305/.405 line next year over a full season.

 

Trayce Thompson stats in leagues he made at least 135 PA's

A (19) G 58 BB% 8.9% K% 29.4% ISO .205 BABIP .296 wRC+ 106

A (20) G 136 BB% 10.1% K% 28.8% ISO .216 BABIP .309 wRC+ 114

A+ (21) G 116 BB% 8.8% K% 28.2% ISO .232 BABIP .316 wRC+ 120

AA (22) G 135 BB% 10.2% K% 23.6% ISO .154 BABIP .280 wRC+ 107

AA (23) G 133 BB% 10.9% K% 25.4% ISO .181 BABIP .301 wRC+ 108

AAA (24) G 104 BB% 5.5% K% 18.9% ISO .180 BABIP .295 wRC+ 114

MLB (24) G 44 BB% 9.6% K% 19.3% ISO .238. BABIP .341 wRC+ 144

 

He talked about how he started to swing earlier in counts to make more contact. His walk rate went down with his K rate because he was seeing fewer pitches per plate appearance.

 

[LDF]

He talked about how he started to swing earlier in counts to make more contact. His walk rate went down with his K rate because he was seeing fewer pitches per plate appearance.

 

i hope he comes back with a vengeance next yr.

[kitekrazy]

Batting Average is overrated anyway, if he gets a bunch of extra-base hits and manages a decent walk rate I don't care if he hits .230.

 

Hmmm......from a Sox perspective I don't agree with this.

 

[Big Hurtin]

I don't like the idea of Eaton in left. This team is power-starved enough as it is. They really need a slugger in LF.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Thompson hasn't won any job but he's certainly put himself ahead of Avi Garcia in RF. Whether the team wants to retool or rebuild, I can't see any scenario where the FO can argue that Avi is a better fit than Thompson. People say I am a Thompson hater but I think he's better than Avi across the board. Thompson's contact rate, walk rate and offensive success will not translate over to next year but he can certainly make a positive impact to the team. I don't think Garcia can.

 

My fear is we come back with Melky/Eaton/Avi/Thompson/LaRoche for the three outfield spots and DH. If the team wants to improve they need to move forward from either Avi or Cabrera. Avi is just a lot easier to cut bait from because he doesn't provide any value other than the outside chance he changes his swing/approach and improves his terrible defense over one winter. He's essentially free. Cut the cord... I worry about him becoming the next Beckham/Viciedo. The fact of the matter is the Sox need to improve at 3B, SS, C and OF/DH. 3B is the must and C/SS are going to be really tough. The team needs to get creative at the OF/DH spot and infuse either/both offense or defense there. I hate pointing to the Cubs for a good example of what to do but look at them bringing in Coghlan and Fowler over the past two seasons. These are very low cost acquisitions that have given them plus contributors and flexibility. Either one of those guys would be one of the best three offensive players on the Sox. The Sox need to start converting on their supplementary pieces.

 

I feel bad for Avi. When he was hitting fairly well his approach was to RF but the Sox weren't getting any power from him so it seems he changed his approach in the 2nd half and tried to pull more judging by the more frequent ground outs to 3rd and SS (eye test no stats to back this up).Now he's just all kinds of screwed up. Problem is he just swung at a lot of crap out of the zone. Until he learns the zone neither approach will work. He will continue to be exploited by pitchers . If he can't recognize pitches he is just another guy with talent and potential that will be wasted.

[OmarComing25]

Hmmm......from a Sox perspective I don't agree with this.

And why is that? There are plenty of players around the league who are having solid offensive seasons without a high batting average.

[Quin]

I don't like the idea of Eaton in left. This team is power-starved enough as it is. They really need a slugger in LF.

 

Trayce has 20+ HR power and Eaton hit 14 this year. They'd be fine.

[Big Hurtin]

Trayce has 20+ HR power and Eaton hit 14 this year. They'd be fine.

Nah, they need more than that, even assuming 20+ for Trayce (which I'm not).

[BlackSox13]

Imo, the Sox need defense over power. Eaton in LF is an upgrade over Melky and Trayce in CF is an upgrade over Eaton. I'll take that.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

So what move Melky to RF? Move Q in a package for Arenado lol progress!

[Quin]

Nah, they need more than that, even assuming 20+ for Trayce (which I'm not).

 

Who is a LF you're anticipating will provide 30+ HR?

[Jerksticks]

Either Trayce or Eaton gives plus pop in CF. I think the other gives you decent pop from either corner. Tolerable due to their other plus contributions. Melky slides to mostly DH but subs in regularly to give breaks. Melky probably plays for Trayce with a tough righty on the mound so Laroche can DH if we're still stuck with him.

 

But I'm conpletely in the camp of packaging Avi in a bigger trade. I don't think he'll ever see the baseball out of the pitcher's hand and understand the zone against high velocity. Gotta upgrade Avi. What players are on the list of young bad ass defense and 25-30 HRs? Quintana & Davidson for Harper?