MLBTradeRumors Offseason Outlook

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'm sick of seeing us compared to the Cubs. Two completely different teams with different philosophies. We don't have the fan base they do. Never will. This FO needs to get it right. Spend money again this offseason. Make some additions and get an impact bat. If it means trading Q, so be it. The Cubs also value a good manager. We don't. Their front office is just flat out better. But again two different teams. We develop pitching they develop hitting.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

So yeah, what would Sale get? Exactly my point.

Sale is a different animal. You'd need at least one impact MLB ready bat. Ala Puig, Arenado, etc. plus a package of at least 3 top prospects.

[southsider2k5]

The SS2K5 rebuilding plan:

 

Step 1: get better fans

Step 2: ???

Step 3: win more baseball games

 

Then there is the Soxtalk Plan

 

Step 1: Cry about everything, making a bunch of unrealistic demands

Step 2: ?

[southsider2k5]

So yeah, what would Sale get? Exactly my point.

 

Surely you don't think their trade values are anywhere near equal, right?

 

 

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Surely you don't think their trade values are anywhere near equal, right?

Lol that's why I said "completely different animal".

[Dick Allen]

So yeah, what would Sale get? Exactly my point.

Look at the list of prospects Boston offered Seattle for King Felix, and gave them their choice of 5. While Seattle hasn't won anything since, they were far better off saying no.

 

I don't understand why people want to get rid of stars for prospects. You must love when the Sox lose.

[MindGame2004]

Sale is a different animal. You'd need at least one impact MLB ready bat. Ala Puig, Arenado, etc. plus a package of at least 3 top prospects.

 

Exactly. Which is what they need.

 

Again, if they want to keep shining the turd, this is where they're going to be and stay. If they can figure out a way to rebuild by keeping Sale, fine. To me, he's their most valuable asset and would yield the most in return.

[Lip Man 1]

If he can't stay healthy, why would anyone else value him?

 

As a throw in as part of a larger deal depending on what the pieces are.

 

Mark

[MindGame2004]

Look at the list of prospects Boston offered Seattle for King Felix, and gave them their choice of 5. While Seattle hasn't won anything since, they were far better off saying no.

 

I don't understand why people want to get rid of stars for prospects. You must love when the Sox lose.

 

Again, I said, does keeping Sale or trading him get you closer to winning a Championship?

 

That's for this brilliant brass to decide. Truthfully, if they did trade Sale, they'd be likely to screw it up and get a Greinke type of return. It's Chris Sale. You dangle the carrot and see what you get offered. If it isn't enough, say no. If this were a smart front office, they could probably rob somebody, but they're not so they probably won't.

 

If you do it right, with his age/talent/contract you could get a ton of value back in return and start moving toward being good again.

 

And no, it's ridiculous to suggest I love when the Sox lose. I know I'm a new poster, but have I been out of line so far this morning to warrant that kind of remark?

 

 

[MindGame2004]

Surely you don't think their trade values are anywhere near equal, right?

 

Man, this is really a tough crowd.

 

I obviously do not and never said that. You're looking at the most recent comps, then go upward in terms of value and the return on that value.

 

He's their most valuable asset and probably has the highest trade value of any starter in MLB. That would suggest that a front office would get a seriously valuable return in exchange for him.

 

If they won't do a tear down around him, and we know they won't, they'll just tinker around it and they'll be running in place.

 

What gets you closer to winning a championship, keeping Chris Sale or trading him? It's an easy question with no real easy answer. Of course we don't know if what they got back would work out. That's the risk.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I would be so sad if they traded Sale, but if it made the team better overall, I guess I'd be ok with it.

[Dick Allen]

As a throw in as part of a larger deal depending on what the pieces are.

 

Mark

2014 AA-AAA .316/.376/.467

2015 AAA .315/.377/.464

 

 

b**** and moan the Sox can't develop hitters, then get this guy who does that and runs like the wind, and use him as a "throw in".

 

Yeah, that makes sense.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Look at the list of prospects Boston offered Seattle for King Felix, and gave them their choice of 5. While Seattle hasn't won anything since, they were far better off saying no.

 

I don't understand why people want to get rid of stars for prospects. You must love when the Sox lose.

That's why I haven't advocated trading for him. But to even start the discussion of need one sure fire impact bat.

[Lip Man 1]

Again, I said, does keeping Sale or trading him get you closer to winning a Championship?

 

That's for this brilliant brass to decide. Truthfully, if they did trade Sale, they'd be likely to screw it up and get a Greinke type of return. It's Chris Sale. You dangle the carrot and see what you get offered. If it isn't enough, say no. If this were a smart front office, they could probably rob somebody, but they're not so they probably won't.

 

If you do it right, with his age/talent/contract you could get a ton of value back in return and start moving toward being good again.

 

And no, it's ridiculous to suggest I love when the Sox lose. I know I'm a new poster, but have I been out of line so far this morning to warrant that kind of remark?

 

Mind:

 

You simply have to get used to it from certain individuals unfortunately.

 

Mark

 

[Thad Bosley]

Then there is the Soxtalk Plan

 

Step 1: Cry about everything, making a bunch of unrealistic demands

Step 2: ?

This is so disingenuous. I mean, really? What the devil are you talking about? No one is crying about anything and making unrealistic demands. You have diehard fans here reacting to the very poor results of this organization for the past several years and simply asking for better. Aren't you frustrated after watching the crap the Sox rolled out in 2015 and then seeing the caliber of teams that are in the playoffs right now, and all of the excitement surrounding that for the fans of those teams?

 

If you consider yourself passionate about this team, then being frustrated with the results should be expected, and it should come as no surprise that legitimate criticism is then leveled here against the management team that has brought these types of poor results for a full decade now. If you are not frustrated at this point and/or are content with the past ten seasons, then one could easily suggest you are more of a casual fan than a diehard. And that is fine if you are, but then don't be critical of those fans who take this a tad bit more seriously.

[southsider2k5]

This is so disingenuous. I mean, really? What the devil are you talking about? No one is crying about anything and making unrealistic demands. You have diehard fans here reacting to the very poor results of this organization for the past several years and simply asking for better. Aren't you frustrated after watching the crap the Sox rolled out in 2015 and then seeing the caliber of teams that are in the playoffs right now, and all of the excitement surrounding that for the fans of those teams?

 

If you consider yourself passionate about this team, then being frustrated with the results should be expected, and it should come as no surprise that legitimate criticism is then leveled here against the management team that has brought these types of poor results for a full decade now. If you are not frustrated at this point and/or are content with the past ten seasons, then one could easily suggest you are more of a casual fan than a diehard. And that is fine if you are, but then don't be critical of those fans who take this a tad bit more seriously.

 

It is unrealistic to want the owner to sell and everyone in the organization fired.

 

I also will never understand the need to have the team win something before baseball is worth watching. It is like some deep seeded insecurity that needs filling with something artificial like sports.

[Eminor3rd]

I feel obligated to say this once every ten pages:

 

If you trade young stars locked up to long-term, sub-market deals, you will ALWAYS be rebuilding. These players are the elusive "best case scenario" for what prospects turn into, and it only works out 1% of the time.

 

You wouldn't spend $1,000 to buy four lottery tickets that each gave you a 1% chance to win your money back.

[southsider2k5]

I feel obligated to say this once every ten pages:

 

If you trade young stars locked up to long-term, sub-market deals, you will ALWAYS be rebuilding. These players are the elusive "best case scenario" for what prospects turn into, and it only works out 1% of the time.

 

You wouldn't spend $1,000 to buy four lottery tickets that each gave you a 1% chance to win your money back.

 

Which is exactly what we saw in KC, Montreal, and Pittsburgh for long periods of time.

[Eminor3rd]

Which is exactly what we saw in KC, Montreal, and Pittsburgh for long periods of time.

 

Exactly!

 

If the Sox are failing at developing talent around their stars, the answer is to get better at developing talent around their stars. Hitting 'reset' just means you have to find the stars all over again and STILL face the challenge of developing talent around them.

[gatnom]

It is unrealistic to want the owner to sell and everyone in the organization fired.

 

I also will never understand the need to have the team win something before baseball is worth watching. It is like some deep seeded insecurity that needs filling with something artificial like sports.

 

Honestly, their rationale isn't hard to comprehend. Losing feels bad. People don't like feeling bad. So, people do something else with their time.

 

Maybe they deserve to be called out on it as often as you call them out on it, but this idea you have that our bad fans are the only reason we suck right now is hilarious to me.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Exactly!

 

If the Sox are failing at developing talent around their stars, the answer is to get better at developing talent around their stars. Hitting 'reset' just means you have to find the stars all over again and STILL face the challenge of developing talent around them.

 

It is getting better. Unlike the free agent market, these things aren't immediately obvious.

 

Good signs

-The Sox put multiple minor leaguers who were drafted/originally signed and developed by the team, into key roles and had some levels of success. Chances are somewhere between 1 and 3 starters of the position players will be guys fully developed by the organization. While not great, it is an improvement.

-The Sox have put something over $10 million into Latin America over the last 4 years or so, and those players are starting to show up state side.

-The highest rated position players are still moving through the system, and will be here soon.

-The team has added a ton of talent to the system in the last few years through the draft.

-Despite the amount of players that have graduated from being rankable, the system ranking is steadily moving upwards.

[southsider2k5]

Honestly, their rationale isn't hard to comprehend. Losing feels bad. People don't like feeling bad. So, people do something else with their time.

 

Maybe they deserve to be called out on it as often as you call them out on it, but this idea you have that our bad fans are the only reason we suck right now is hilarious to me.

 

I have never said anything remotely close to this. Not once. I think too many people are taking the idea that our fans aren't loyal, personally. For me, the numbers are there. The truth is there.

[LDF]

It is getting better. Unlike the free agent market, these things aren't immediately obvious.

 

Good signs

-The Sox put multiple minor leaguers who were drafted/originally signed and developed by the team, into key roles and had some levels of success. Chances are somewhere between 1 and 3 starters of the position players will be guys fully developed by the organization. While not great, it is an improvement.

-The Sox have put something over $10 million into Latin America over the last 4 years or so, and those players are starting to show up state side.

-The highest rated position players are still moving through the system, and will be here soon.

-The team has added a ton of talent to the system in the last few years through the draft.

-Despite the amount of players that have graduated from being rankable, the system ranking is steadily moving upwards.

 

and the point is, the system is building up the core, the main line for talent to slid into a meaningful position on the parent club.

 

but the problem with all this positive movement, the team has the star player who will not be around forever esp in their prime. something will need to be done to take advantage of this.

[LDF]

did anyone get to listen to the mlb rumor podcast with Hahn today. he was going to discuss the offseason.

[Thad Bosley]

It is unrealistic to want the owner to sell and everyone in the organization fired.

 

I also will never understand the need to have the team win something before baseball is worth watching. It is like some deep seeded insecurity that needs filling with something artificial like sports.

It may be unrealistic to "expect" the owner to sell (sadly enough), but it's certainly not unrealistic to "want" him to sell, because believe you me, we need the "post Reinsdorf" era to begin sooner rather than later. 35 years of this ownership, whether you look at the last ten years, the first ten years, or whatever - enough is enough! The organization needs a bold new strategy and vision, because what's been in place is not working, and I don't think after 35 years that Mr. Reinsdorf is capable at this point of doing anything much differently than what he has been doing. Maybe I'm wrong, and if he cares to prove me wrong, I'm certainly open to it, but I don't see that happening.

 

As for your second comment about needing to win vs. just finding baseball "worth watching", well, we have been watching, at least the people who frequent this site. We've been watching for a long time now. Despite the less-than-desirable product we've been presented with for quite some time, we still find it worth watching. Why? Because through it all, we remain Sox fans, through and through. So we are watching. Now the question is, is it too much to ask to sprinkle in a little more winning than has been the case for the past ten years? Is it too much to ask for the opportunity to wave "white socks" like a crazy person at U.S. Cellular Field in mid-October, cheering madly for the team we love, at least more frequently than one or two games per decade? That is the ask here. For those who find this request some form of "whining" or "complaining" or "moaning" or whatever, so be it. Call it what you want. But that's what true White Sox fans crave for their ballclub - success! And by golly, we are not going to stop talking about it until we get it!!

 

Edited October 15, 2015 by Thad Bosley