MLBTradeRumors Offseason Outlook

[Thad Bosley]

Yep Reimsdorf is trying to screw all of us.

That's an interesting theory, and if you have any evidence to back it up, I'm sure we'd all be interested in hearing about it.

 

In the meantime, let's be very clear in what most of the rest of us are talking about as it relates to the state of things today with the White Sox. No one other than Dick Allen with his post here has suggested that Mr. Reinsdorf has "screwed all of us", per se. But he has FAILED US. Failed us on so many fronts over the years, they're too numerous to count at this point!

[caulfield12]

just a question to all, do the sox really need a 30 hr a season as a player to be get.

 

i mean dunn was that kind of player. a 30 hr guy with a batting avg of 230 .

 

i think a hitter, who has the ability to hit 20+ hrs, and avg hitting of 270 avg, and has a contact of rate to k's stat.

 

 

The Astros and Royals have that type of balance...threats but not a bunch of pure home run hitters like the Jays have...

 

Someone will argue Valbuena, Rasmus, Gattis and Carter, but those are all or nothing types. Really Correa and Springer types are the ideal, and they are rare talents.

 

In this market, it's only Upton, Chris Davis and maybe Cespedes.

[LDF]

That's an interesting theory, and if you have any evidence to back it up, I'm sure we'd all be interested in hearing about it.

 

In the meantime, let's be very clear in what most of the rest of us are talking about as it relates to the state of things today with the White Sox. No one other than Dick Allen with his post here has suggested that Mr. Reinsdorf has "screwed all of us", per se. But he has FAILED US. Failed us on so many fronts over the years, they're too numerous to count at this point!

 

that is the best way of putting this situation and can carry everything into a i have and many others have stated.

 

but i hate to say or to continue to state that it falls back to the onwer.

 

i still like and extremely happy about the WS. now with what is happening since. that is where i am angry about. but oh well.

 

accountability, pointing the finger, i will ask this, who should be blame for this fall???

 

 

at least this off season and the success the team has so for been identify and they will build on.

[southsider2k5]

Another throw away comment only meant to insult, when you can't refute facts. So sad for you.

 

Meanwhile, in 34 of Jerry Reinsdorf's 35 years of ownership of our White Sox, the team has failed to win even one playoff series. Not one! It's almost impossible to believe. The Kansas City Royals have a more impressive postseason record during this same time period, for crying out loud. That's why when we true diehard fans see the kinds of results we've seen as recently as the past decade, and yet the operating model still continues to be dominated by an unaccountable loyalty program, you see the angst in so many comments at a site like this. It also explains the miserably low attendance and TV ratings.

 

These are the facts of the past as they relate to Reinsdorf's management of the team. He's been a complete disaster as owner. Now, can he and his unaccountable henchmen find a way to turn this thing around and find that elusive "sustained success" they've been "talking about" for so long now? I guess it's possible - anything can happen. But boy oh boy, their track record doesn't create much confidence in their ability to do so. I hope they prove me wrong!

 

This is my point exactly. This is what you get out of the team. Nothing good at all. Every single post is misery. It is like Kathy Bates has Jerry Reinsdorf locked in the room with your keyboard.

 

[southsider2k5]

That's an interesting theory, and if you have any evidence to back it up, I'm sure we'd all be interested in hearing about it.

 

In the meantime, let's be very clear in what most of the rest of us are talking about as it relates to the state of things today with the White Sox. No one other than Dick Allen with his post here has suggested that Mr. Reinsdorf has "screwed all of us", per se. But he has FAILED US. Failed us on so many fronts over the years, they're too numerous to count at this point!

 

He's mocking you, and it went over your head.

[Thad Bosley]

He's mocking you, and it went over your head.

Lol - umm, yes, I knew that, but don't you agree it was more interesting to treat the pesky little comment as if he did mean it? I thought so, at least, and that's what I did. Hope you enjoyed the retort!

[caulfield12]

This is my point exactly. This is what you get out of the team. Nothing good at all. Every single post is misery. It is like Kathy Bates has Jerry Reinsdorf locked in the room with your keyboard.

 

I prefer to think of Kathy Griffin, higher annoyance coefficient.

[Thad Bosley]

This is my point exactly. This is what you get out of the team. Nothing good at all. Every single post is misery. It is like Kathy Bates has Jerry Reinsdorf locked in the room with your keyboard.

Correction: this is what "we" have "gotten" out of the team during Reinsdorf's years as owner, from a purely team results point of view. Our Sox did not win one playoff series in 34 of his 35 years as owner - that's been unfortunate for us all. What Kansas City Royals fans have gotten to experience these past two years with their team going deep into the postseason in consecutive seasons, Reinsdorf has failed to provide us such an experience in 35 years. That's the record of the past and it is certainly worthy of mention and debate.

 

Now moving forward, I, as would most of the fans at this site who are more team results-oriented and less insults-to-other-fans focused, we simply would like more winning and more active participation in the postseason. How much more simply stated could that be. There are legitimate questions and concerns, however, as to whether Reinsdorf and his management team can make that happen based on their less-than-impressive track record. I HOPE THEY DO! It's fine if some fans like yourself, SS2K5, don't necessarily need to see the team in the postseason any more frequently than the pace they currently make it there. That's up to you to decide for yourself. But for the rest of us, just be respectful of our desire for the U.S. Cellular electric bill to be much higher in October more frequently than it has been over the past few decades.

[Dick Allen]

Lol - umm, yes, I knew that, but don't you agree it was more interesting to treat the pesky little comment as if he did mean it? I thought so, at least, and that's what I did. Hope you enjoyed the retort!

Why would you ever have become a White Dox fan if complaining isn't your favorite hobby? While you blame Reinsdorf for 34 of the past 35 years, using your criteria for exciting seasons the White Sox hadn't had one BEFORE JR since 1917. so the previous 63 seasons were all horrible misery as well.

 

 

I why didn't you answer my question about what you are going to do about it? Just keep complaining? That hasn't worked.

[Thad Bosley]

Why would you ever have become a White Dox fan if complaining isn't your favorite hobby? While you blame Reinsdorf for 34 of the past 35 years, using your criteria for exciting seasons the White Sox hadn't had one BEFORE JR since 1917. so the previous 63 seasons were all horrible misery as well.

 

 

I why didn't you answer my question about what you are going to do about it? Just keep complaining? That hasn't worked.

Mirror, mirror on the wall...

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

That's an interesting theory, and if you have any evidence to back it up, I'm sure we'd all be interested in hearing about it.

 

In the meantime, let's be very clear in what most of the rest of us are talking about as it relates to the state of things today with the White Sox. No one other than Dick Allen with his post here has suggested that Mr. Reinsdorf has "screwed all of us", per se. But he has FAILED US. Failed us on so many fronts over the years, they're too numerous to count at this point!

 

Thad I think you are rather unbiased in your assessment of the Reinsdorf years. Facts are facts and you present them in a calm and rational way. What's sad is that because of the WS win his era is a rousing success compared to the Veeck and Comiskey years .

[Bob Sacamano]

God this thread is humorous. Every topic on here lately is just arguing between 2-3 people. I think I'm going on a hiatus from this site for a while. Peace.

[southsider2k5]

Correction: this is what "we" have "gotten" out of the team during Reinsdorf's years as owner, from a purely team results point of view. Our Sox did not win one playoff series in 34 of his 35 years as owner - that's been unfortunate for us all. What Kansas City Royals fans have gotten to experience these past two years with their team going deep into the postseason in consecutive seasons, Reinsdorf has failed to provide us such an experience in 35 years. That's the record of the past and it is certainly worthy of mention and debate.

 

Now moving forward, I, as would most of the fans at this site who are more team results-oriented and less insults-to-other-fans focused, we simply would like more winning and more active participation in the postseason. How much more simply stated could that be. There are legitimate questions and concerns, however, as to whether Reinsdorf and his management team can make that happen based on their less-than-impressive track record. I HOPE THEY DO! It's fine if some fans like yourself, SS2K5, don't necessarily need to see the team in the postseason any more frequently than the pace they currently make it there. That's up to you to decide for yourself. But for the rest of us, just be respectful of our desire for the U.S. Cellular electric bill to be much higher in October more frequently than it has been over the past few decades.

 

Respectful would also include not turning every single thread into the exact same trite referendum on ownership.

[elrockinMT]

Respectful would also include not turning every single thread into the exact same trite referendum on ownership.

 

 

Agreed. Too much negativity. Let's try supporting the team and ownership for a change. The great thing about baseball is there is always next season. 2016 can be great!

Edited October 18, 2015 by elrockinMT

[LDF]

Agreed. Too much negativity. Let's try supporting the team and ownership for a change. The great thing about baseball is there is always next season. 2016 can be great!

 

it is not negativity that some are talking about, part of it is defense of a poster statement, esp when others are just to arbitrary defend without proof or to agate . all this is from that expectation that we, the fans may not know, but can be found via the internet.

 

granted, this is been a build up of frustration and of a perceived idea of a comments made and a comment of what was the hidden meaning.

 

the supporting of anything from the sox management is a moot point. we are sox fans, we are at the mercy of the sox management or org and they way they run the team. this was nothing but the fans voicing their displeasure of how things are being done.

 

now will anything change, well i hope so, but it doesn't mean it will, can i change my loyalty to another chi team, for me, that will never be an option. i will have to hope for a better next yr.

 

hope for a better next yr...... that was a ads slogan the sox used 30-40 yrs ago. things haven't change lol.......

 

 

btw, a great post

 

i am going to take a vacation from this site ...

Edited October 18, 2015 by LDF

[Balta1701]

Agreed. Too much negativity. Let's try supporting the team and ownership for a change. The great thing about baseball is there is always next season. 2016 can be great!

Insisting that 2015 was going to be great made the mess much bigger and substantially delayed the rebuilding process. That seems like an experience worth learning a lesson from.

[hi8is]

I think I'm going on a hiatus...

Word.

 

[MindGame2004]

How about I choose both? A WS win and a sustained run of success?

 

I'd be down with that.

 

One playoff appearance since that World Series. Unlucky in 2006, but otherwise, when did they ever come close to the postseason again? Robin's first season a few years ago.

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

Sensible comment displaying ability to hold two thoughts in head at same time. What is it doing on this site?

 

Don't worry -- it's fleeting. I'll get knocked into rage mode along with everyone else once the offseason officially starts.

[Eminor3rd]

I think the problem with the 2015 moves is they did not upgrade any position with young talent.I agree they failed w the veterans they added but did not incur bad contracts. So 2015 was really a wasted year in that from a rebuilding standpoint, they did not improve. In hindsight, it is unfortunate that they couldn't have filled at least 1 or 2 holes with a talented young player. Maybe Sanchez has a chance to be that but his offense so far has been poor. We can also still hope Avi rebounds but that hope is running out. The good news is Q and Rodon improved and Sale is still a star.

 

I mean, there's no question that 2015 was a terrible year, but that's because outcomes were MUCH worse than anyone expected. If LaRoche puts up anything even close to a career average year, for example, then his one-year, $12m deal for 2016 looks shrewd and low-risk. I'm just trying to illustrate the difference between the ad-hoc and the actual state in which decisions were made (and must be made going forward)

 

Put another way: every time we make an acquisition, there are a range of expected possible outcomes assigned to the player. We improbably saw EVERY 2015 acquisition turn out near the worst possible outcome, and yet we aren't buried. Yes, things obviously look worse than before, but this was almost literally the WORST CASE SCENARIO. And that scenario is one where there's no one making more than $13m at a time, and only one of those guys is even still around after 2017.

[SCCWS]

I mean, there's no question that 2015 was a terrible year, but that's because outcomes were MUCH worse than anyone expected. If LaRoche puts up anything even close to a career average year, for example, then his one-year, $12m deal for 2016 looks shrewd and low-risk. I'm just trying to illustrate the difference between the ad-hoc and the actual state in which decisions were made (and must be made going forward)

 

Put another way: every time we make an acquisition, there are a range of expected possible outcomes assigned to the player. We improbably saw EVERY 2015 acquisition turn out near the worst possible outcome, and yet we aren't buried. Yes, things obviously look worse than before, but this was almost literally the WORST CASE SCENARIO. And that scenario is one where there's no one making more than $13m at a time, and only one of those guys is even still around after 2017.

 

But again, it would have been better to have added a young player or two as opposed to 3 or 4 veterans. We are one year later talking about the same holes we did last year- 3b-SS-DH-C and possibly even 2B. Instead we rented all older players who ultimately had bad years. It is understandable that it happened at DH since you tend to add a 30+ year old to that spot. But Beckham, Boni, Melky were all stop gap measures. It is too bad they did not get at least one good prospect in place of one of them.

 

[OmarComing25]

But again, it would have been better to have added a young player or two as opposed to 3 or 4 veterans. We are one year later talking about the same holes we did last year- 3b-SS-DH-C and possibly even 2B. Instead we rented all older players who ultimately had bad years. It is understandable that it happened at DH since you tend to add a 30+ year old to that spot. But Beckham, Boni, Melky were all stop gap measures. It is too bad they did not get at least one good prospect in place of one of them.

I'd agree with you if any of those guys were blocking someone, but they weren't and aren't. The worst thing was losing Semien and the two draft picks and a certain amount of payroll flexibility, but those guys are gone soon and we'll get at least one pick back with Samardzija's comp pick.

[caulfield12]

I mean, there's no question that 2015 was a terrible year, but that's because outcomes were MUCH worse than anyone expected. If LaRoche puts up anything even close to a career average year, for example, then his one-year, $12m deal for 2016 looks shrewd and low-risk. I'm just trying to illustrate the difference between the ad-hoc and the actual state in which decisions were made (and must be made going forward)

 

Put another way: every time we make an acquisition, there are a range of expected possible outcomes assigned to the player. We improbably saw EVERY 2015 acquisition turn out near the worst possible outcome, and yet we aren't buried. Yes, things obviously look worse than before, but this was almost literally the WORST CASE SCENARIO. And that scenario is one where there's no one making more than $13m at a time, and only one of those guys is even still around after 2017.

 

 

Bad health...major injuries to key pieces. Basically losing any of six players for significant time would cripple the Sox next year.

 

Knock on wood.

[Eminor3rd]

But again, it would have been better to have added a young player or two as opposed to 3 or 4 veterans. We are one year later talking about the same holes we did last year- 3b-SS-DH-C and possibly even 2B. Instead we rented all older players who ultimately had bad years. It is understandable that it happened at DH since you tend to add a 30+ year old to that spot. But Beckham, Boni, Melky were all stop gap measures. It is too bad they did not get at least one good prospect in place of one of them.

 

Well, yeah, but to get a young, controlled option at a premium position would have moved the cost into the "giving up the future" range. If it was a guy who you were comfortable "giving up the future" for, then that guy isn't going to be available in the first place.

[Eminor3rd]

Bad health...major injuries to key pieces. Basically losing any of six players for significant time would cripple the Sox next year.

 

Knock on wood.

 

Yeah, I meant "worst case" specifically among the new acquisitions.

 

Samardzija - Bad

Melky - Bad

LaRoche - Extra Bad

Duke - Extra Bad

Robertson - Solid, if streaky

 

That's rough.