MLBTradeRumors Offseason Outlook

[Hatchetman]

Sox are very comparable to the Royals. A stadium amidst a parking lot. Strong fanbase that wont' come out unless they win.

 

Also KC was a very successful franchise in the 70s and 80s under a great owner Kauffman. When he died it all went to hell for a long stretch.

[Dick Allen]

Sox are very comparable to the Royals. A stadium amidst a parking lot. Strong fanbase that wont' come out unless they win.

 

Also KC was a very successful franchise in the 70s and 80s under a great owner Kauffman. When he died it all went to hell for a long stretch.

The game changed a lot. I think as late as 1990, the Royals had the highest payroll in baseball. At one time, the Twins had the highest paid player, Kirby Puckett, and the Royals the highest payroll. Those days are ova.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

A few things.

 

Cabrera is a good idea except he will likely cost more than Alexei in terms of salary and contract. Now if Cabrera could slide over to 3B when Anderson was ready then there's no problem. Cabrera is going 30 years old so there's no reason to think he cannot get more than a one year deal.

 

If the Sox trade Q then who replaces him in the rotation?

 

Montas I would not hesitate to trade for the right player and I'm hoping the Sox look into a Montas for McMahon trade. Montas is rated #54 and McMahon #50 in the top 100. Problem is that McMahon has only played at A+, likely starts '16 at AA so he won't be ready until 2017 at the earliest. I'll take it since he would give the Sox another young 3B option to go with Michalczewski.

 

Freeze is a good idea and could be a great stop gap to hopefully Michalczewski or McMahon if the Sox can trade for him.

 

My plan for AC was sign him to 2 or 3 year deal. When Tim is ready, move him to 2B. Have Freese at 3B

[caulfield12]

Because Kauffman was more like Mike Illitch than Sam Walton/David Glass.

 

Hobbyist, money/profitability wasn't the main point.

 

 

 

There's also lots of info supporting the fact that the number of fans attending Cubs games and White Sox fans from within a fifty mile radius is virtually identical, or at least was until 2013-2015.

 

The other 40% of attendance for the Cubs is much more regional...the senior citizens buses or I-Cubs fans coming from Des Moines for a two or three day trip to Chicago and back.

 

Surely, part of the reason is/was Harry Caray, WGN, the babes in the stands, a three hour beer/party/celebrity 7th inning stretch skit...with baseball as an additional bonus as well. The White Sox completely lost Iowa, most of Indiana, western Michigan, western WI/SE Minnesota. Having the AAA and Midwest teams close by helps as well. You can't argue the location of minor league teams is helpful for us.

 

In comparison, look at the Royals, Rangers, etc. Very strategic. Before, the White Sox had South Bend at least.

Edited October 14, 2015 by caulfield12

[BlackSox13]

My plan for AC was sign him to 2 or 3 year deal. When Tim is ready, move him to 2B. Have Freese at 3B

Ok, I follow you. The Sox could very well have the funds available for Freeze and Cabrera, would solidify two positional needs. That's a solid plan.

[Vance Law]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GZ9...pub?output=html

If the Sox were to cut bait on Avi and Jennings, they could have enough left over to sign a few free agents, for instance, like Parra and Zobrist. The payroll would be about the same as it was this past season. I'm not a fan of signing Zobrist, just using him as an example.

 

Avi and Jennings? They're not going to cost $2 million between them. You'd have to replace them with guys making 500k each for a total of $1 million. You've saved $1 million. How does that move have any impact on signing free agents or not?

Edited October 14, 2015 by Vance Law

[Vance Law]

I loved the Fulmer pick, but I am a little concerned this team can't develop fielding talent. The WAR statistics for developed fielders under Williams are staggeringly bad.

 

Brian Anderson, Ryan Sweeney, Alexei, Sanchez, Saladino, Trayce. Chris Getz and Eduardo Escobar both not bad.

[caulfield12]

Brian Anderson, Ryan Sweeney, Alexei, Sanchez, Saladino, Trayce. Chris Getz and Eduardo Escobar both not bad.

 

How did they develop Ramirez?

 

It took them half a season to even realize he might be able to stick in the infield, and he was playing mostly 2b then, and CF.

 

Of course, Cabrera was the starter, but nobody projected him as more than a utility player. One of those fortunate situations like Quintana where we ended up with surplus value on a low-risk investment.

 

 

More of the credit probably goes to Omar Vizquel than Cora/Guillen.

[Vance Law]

How did they develop Ramirez?

 

Was bad at shortstop initially. Then he was good at shortstop.

 

[caulfield12]

Was bad at shortstop initially. Then he was good at shortstop.

 

Or it could be shifting him all over the field (see Beckham, Semien, Viciedo) wasn't helpful for him settling in and becoming comfortable at one position.

 

90% of it was confidence in knowing the position was his in 2009.

[Vance Law]

Or it could be shifting him all over the field (see Beckham, Semien, Viciedo) wasn't helpful for him settling in and becoming comfortable at one position.

 

Actually, I just misremembered. I thought he stunk in his 2nd season, his first at shortstop. He was actually good then. He just stunk at playing 2nd base his rookie year. I'd remove him from the players I listed.

[BlackSox13]

Avi and Jennings? They're not going to cost $2 million between them. You'd have to replace them with guys making 500k each for a total of $1 million. You've saved $1 million. How does that move have any impact on signing free agents or not?

[/quote

 

I was going by this since there's not much to go by for now.

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/10/7/9469...dent-in-payroll

 

Avi at 2.3M and Jennings at 700k. I threw Jennings in to open a spot for another arm. That's 3M saved and gets knocked down to 2.5M with Jennings replacement which means the 2.5M can go towards the percieved 15M the Sox might have to spend. That's 17.5M. Not likely enough for Parra and Zobrist ( examples I used) but it puts the Sox close enough to where they might stretch the payroll a bit more to make those two signings happen. It's just a matter of saving here and there while opening up a few spots on the roster.

 

Things are really tight until the contracts of Danks and LaRoche come off the books after '16.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Ok, I follow you. The Sox could very well have the funds available for Freeze and Cabrera, would solidify two positional needs. That's a solid plan.

Ya my plan of AC, Freese and Wieters isn't out of the realm of possibility. All won't command big contracts. I'd really like to see these three signed.

[BlackSox13]

Ya my plan of AC, Freese and Wieters isn't out of the realm of possibility. All won't command big contracts. I'd really like to see these three signed.

All three might be a stretch since their salaries combined for just a tick over 22M this season and are bound to get raises with their new contracts. Just a guess on my part but I can see the three of them easily adding 30M+ to the payroll which would put the Sox payroll in the mid 130's.

 

I would think seriously about trying to get Wieters on a multi year deal and slide him over to 1B when LaRoche is gone.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

All three might be a stretch since their salaries combined for just a tick over 22M this season and are bound to get raises with their new contracts. Just a guess on my part but I can see the three of them easily adding 30M+ to the payroll which would put the Sox payroll in the mid 130's.

 

I would think seriously about trying to get Wieters on a multi year deal and slide him over to 1B when LaRoche is gone.

Could work if we got a nice young catcher

[Vance Law]

I was going by this since there's not much to go by for now.

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/10/7/9469...dent-in-payroll

 

Avi at 2.3M and Jennings at 700k.

 

Hadn't seen that estimate before. If Avi gets even that much of a raise in arbitration, this system is messed up. But even still we're talking about small enough dollar amounts that those two players shouldn't be considered money saving cuts. They shouldn't impact whether the Sox go after any particular free agent.

[BigHurt3515]

What are we going to do with Micah and Sanchez? Are we going to find another 2B or who is going to take that job?

[Lip Man 1]

What are we going to do with Micah and Sanchez? Are we going to find another 2B or who is going to take that job?

 

If the offense improves you keep Sanchez at second who appears to be solid defensively and God knows the Sox need someone who can catch the baseball regularly.

 

As far as Johnson, it looks like he can't stay healthy, if he can't stay healthy he doesn't do anybody any good. May have to consider including him in a deal.

 

mark

[LDF]

If the offense improves you keep Sanchez at second who appears to be solid defensively and God knows the Sox need someone who can catch the baseball regularly.

 

As far as Johnson, it looks like he can't stay healthy, if he can't stay healthy he doesn't do anybody any good. May have to consider including him in a deal.

 

mark

 

that is an example of what i am saying on making some hard decisions on trades.

[southsider2k5]

If the offense improves you keep Sanchez at second who appears to be solid defensively and God knows the Sox need someone who can catch the baseball regularly.

 

As far as Johnson, it looks like he can't stay healthy, if he can't stay healthy he doesn't do anybody any good. May have to consider including him in a deal.

 

mark

 

If he can't stay healthy, why would anyone else value him?

[MindGame2004]

They have to ask themselves who their assets are.

 

I would say Abreu, Sale, Quintana and Rodon. They have to decide are they closer to a World Series with these guys or will they get closer by trading any of them to get assets in return?

 

Their farm system is weak, let's be honest. Tim Anderson is the prize and is K to BB rate in AA doesn't translate well to the Majors. He's another toolsy athlete they want to transform into a baseball player. We know how that story ends, Sox fans.

 

The only guy I see them moving is Quintana, and that's only because Hahn said a few months ago they will need to trade a position of strength to help in areas of weakness.

 

They have some good, young pitching with friendly contracts. They have no infielders who can hit. Quintana is the odd man out. They won't trade Sale, Abreu or Rodon.

 

Quintana will get you a good return, but he won't reboot your system the way Sale would. Look at what the Cubs got for Garza and what the Phillies got for Hamels. Chris Sale would yield a bounty of young prospects that could get you going again.

 

You need not an ace pitcher when you're losing 90 games a year. They've wasted all Sale has done by being incredibly poor around him.

[Dick Allen]

They have to ask themselves who their assets are.

 

I would say Abreu, Sale, Quintana and Rodon. They have to decide are they closer to a World Series with these guys or will they get closer by trading any of them to get assets in return?

 

Their farm system is weak, let's be honest. Tim Anderson is the prize and is K to BB rate in AA doesn't translate well to the Majors. He's another toolsy athlete they want to transform into a baseball player. We know how that story ends, Sox fans.

 

The only guy I see them moving is Quintana, and that's only because Hahn said a few months ago they will need to trade a position of strength to help in areas of weakness.

 

They have some good, young pitching with friendly contracts. They have no infielders who can hit. Quintana is the odd man out. They won't trade Sale, Abreu or Rodon.

 

Quintana will get you a good return, but he won't reboot your system the way Sale would. Look at what the Cubs got for Garza and what the Phillies got for Hamels. Chris Sale would yield a bounty of young prospects that could get you going again.

 

You need not an ace pitcher when you're losing 90 games a year. They've wasted all Sale has done by being incredibly poor around him.

Garza netted the Cubs Justin Grimm, Carl Edwards and Mike Olt. Not exactly earthshattering or franchise changing. He also cost them Chris Archer.

[Bob Sacamano]

Garza netted the Cubs Justin Grimm, Carl Edwards and Mike Olt. Not exactly earthshattering or franchise changing. He also cost them Chris Archer.

 

And Neil Ramirez. Basically half their bullpen.

 

[gatnom]

The Cubs drew 2.6 million in 2013 and 2014. 2014 attendance was up over the previous year. The White Sox have drawn that much twice in the last twenty years. They drew ONE MILLION MORE FANS then we did in 2014, in their sixth straight year of under .500 baseball. We even had a year in 2012 where we were in first place until the last two weeks of the season, and still got out drawn by 900,000 fans by a Cubs team that went 61-101.

 

Again, that gives them options that the White Sox don't have.

 

And that is my point exactly when talking about "plans". The Royals fan base was decimated, and because of that it took them WAY longer than a team like the Cubs who has a fan base that still shows up. Our fan base is much closer to the Royals in terms of being willing to see out a "plan". That is my point exactly, and I am glad you finally get it.

 

The SS2K5 rebuilding plan:

 

Step 1: get better fans

Step 2: ???

Step 3: win more baseball games

 

 

[MindGame2004]

Garza netted the Cubs Justin Grimm, Carl Edwards and Mike Olt. Not exactly earthshattering or franchise changing. He also cost them Chris Archer.

 

So yeah, what would Sale get? Exactly my point.