Dick Allen Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 02:49 PM) this place makes my head spin. I can't keep all the stat proponents and detractors straight. whatever supports their argument I guess. Just so you know, none of the 5 teams in the AL who made the playoff were projected to make the playoffs under PECOTA; TOR 80-82 NYY 79-83 KC 73-89 TEX 79-83 HOU 77-85 BOS and DET and LAA were projected to win with TB and SEA projecting enough for the WC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 QUOTE (captain54 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 07:54 PM) the missing ingredient in this equation is that the Cubs addressed their suckage…as did the Bears.. as did the BlackHawks… the White Sox? they will continue to ride 2005…it's an embarrassment…. There can't be a franchise is sports that is more out of touch with it's fan base than the White Sox… Ive gotten a good half dozen mass marketing emails from the Sox pimping their party suites, or this and that.. and I always respond with.. "you guys figure out a way to put a better product on the field and I'll be happy to come to park and spend my money" ..their response? more generic marketing emails… The entire franchise needs to be re invented.. that's the only hope of the Sox maintaining any relevancy in this town….in reality the chances of that are slim to none.. intstead, Reinsdorf and his band of crusty old investors will try to trot out the same old same old with Kenny Williams and Hahn tap dancing their way into spinning positive in the media with some psycho babble about this or that convoluted plan… Bottom line..Going back now to the end of 2012.. things have not worked out.. and the Sox have no answers.. do they really believe that surrounding Abreu and Sale with a cavalcade of scrubs is gonna bring people to the park…? i am going to use this post to continue my thought process. how will the sox FO going to over come this build up if they really don't do something drastic now??? will some of the sox fans grudgingly change teams, b/c of the total ineptness of the sox FO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Hey Dick, you're preaching to the choir, but taking a poll at Soxtalk isn't much more accurate. Edited October 14, 2015 by Hatchetman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 03:00 PM) Hey, you're preaching to the choir, but taking a poll at Soxtalk isn't much more accurate. Actually, the guess the record has been fairly accurate most seasons. This year it was off, but back to PECOTA, the teams they had making the playoffs, one finished in 3rd place in their division, 2 finished 4th, and 2 finished 5th. I don't think BP will be touting those numbers anytime soon. You would think if you had to pick 1 team in 5 that would make the playoffs, it wouldn't be that difficult. They couldn't even pick one that finished in second place. I think they need to go back to the drawing board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 The interesting thing to note in that article I posted is that projection systems have actually been fairly accurate in predicting individual performance (except for our guys apparently), but trying to predict team performance is where things have fallen apart. "It’s a long-held saying that baseball’s playoffs are a crapshoot, but the unexpectedly great performances of teams like Kansas City this year might indicate the regular season is headed in that direction, too." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 03:06 PM) The interesting thing to note in that article I posted is that projection systems have actually been fairly accurate in predicting individual performance (except for our guys apparently), but trying to predict team performance is where things have fallen apart. "It’s a long-held saying that baseball’s playoffs are a crapshoot, but the unexpectedly great performances of teams like Kansas City this year might indicate the regular season is headed in that direction, too." Too many variables with the team. I think one of the years Boston came in last place, they led the league in cumulative WAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain54 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 02:21 PM) They did sell more tickets than last season, and an overwhelming majority of posters here thought the moves they made last winter made them a contender if you look at the prediction thread. Okay.. can we officially let go of what the majority of posters thought pre 2015? It didn't work out.. Moving forward, what reason is there for fans to believe that 2015 was an anomaly, or that the franchise magically figured out how to correct what didn't work in 2015? I believe that this franchises' best efforts in 2016, with Robin coming back, Hahn coming back, KW coming back.. a reshuffling of the roster by the "brain trust" (and I use that term loosely) will result in and around a .500 record…and yes, that's an improvement over 2015, but I can't see myself bowing at the shrine of Kenny Williams and the shrine of the 2005 WS trophy over a mediocre, tired franchise… The ONLY factor directly related to my interest in the Sox is come the day, their cage gets seriously rattled, people are held accountable.. and I can watch a game without the thought of what the hell happened to my favorite team Edited October 14, 2015 by captain54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 QUOTE (captain54 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 03:23 PM) Okay.. can we officially let go of what the majority of posters thought pre 2015? It didn't work out.. Moving forward, what reason is there for fans to believe that 2015 was an anomaly, or that the franchise magically figured out how to correct what didn't work in 2015? I believe that this franchises' best efforts in 2016, with Robin coming back, Hahn coming back, KW coming back.. a reshuffling of the roster by the "brain trust" (and I use that term loosely) will result in and around a .500 record…and yes, that's an improvement over 2015, but I can't see myself bowing at the shrine of Kenny Williams and the shrine of the 2005 WS trophy over a mediocre, tired franchise… The ONLY factor directly related to my interest in the Sox is come the day, their cage gets seriously rattled, people are held accountable.. and I can watch a game without the thought of what the hell happened to my favorite team So essentially the same group that most thought had assembled a borderline playoff team six months ago, now is incapable of doing anything right. Seems about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 QUOTE (captain54 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 08:23 PM) Okay.. can we officially let go of what the majority of posters thought pre 2015? It didn't work out.. Moving forward, what reason is there for fans to believe that 2015 was an anomaly, or that the franchise magically figured out how to correct what didn't work in 2015? I believe that this franchises' best efforts in 2016, with Robin coming back, Hahn coming back, KW coming back.. a reshuffling of the roster by the "brain trust" (and I use that term loosely) will result in and around a .500 record…and yes, that's an improvement over 2015, but I can't see myself bowing at the shrine of Kenny Williams and the shrine of the 2005 WS trophy over a mediocre, tired franchise… The ONLY factor directly related to my interest in the Sox is come the day, their cage gets seriously rattled, people are held accountable.. and I can watch a game without the thought of what the hell happened to my favorite team since most of the fans who read this, are in no position to recommend anything. like they the owners will listen to us. at the end of the day, we as fans, die hard fans will have to suffer thru this and continue to biittch . what more can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 08:06 AM) What many people are missing is the teams they want the Sox to be like, the Cubs, the Pirates, the Royals, the Astros, were consistently awful for a very, very, very long time. None of them won it all as of late either. Some organizations make a habit of trading a good player for multiple prospects and when one of them shines they start the process over. So when the fans like a player the attitude is how long do they get to enjoy him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) How many CEO's get to keep their jobs hen they consistently underperform on earnings per share by using the defense, "well, we were projected by numerous algorithms and models/simulations to perform much better than we actually did in reality. Just be patient and trust the process...eventually we'll get it right!" Edited October 15, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain54 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 03:59 PM) So essentially the same group that most thought had assembled a borderline playoff team six months ago, now is incapable of doing anything right. Seems about right. With 2015 in the books, the Sox brain trust gets a pass because we all thought it work out, even though it didn't. Despite the reality of the season which brought us a record marginally improved from 2014, horrible offensive and defensive numbers, and no real sign of any solid fundamental baseball on the horizon. Got it so to be fair, here's my top ten list for why fans have no right to be pissed off or complain/be negative 1) 2005 2) playoff appearances in 2008, 2000, 1993, and 1983 3) seat color changed from blue to green 4) good churros 5) concert from a Journey cover band after a game this summer at no extra charge 6) Sale and Abreu 7) Hawk relieved of GM duties after only one season 8) silver and black uniforms with the traditional logo in the early 90s 9) Frank Thomas 8) Carlton Fisk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 02:59 PM) So essentially the same group that most thought had assembled a borderline playoff team six months ago, now is incapable of doing anything right. Seems about right. No, nice try, but as always with you, no. What we "essentially" have here is the "same group" who have only managed to assemble a "playoff team" in two of the thirteen years they've been at this thing, and not one "playoff team" for seven years in a row now. It's that deplorable record of achievement, or lack thereof, that has most of us concluding they are "incapable of doing anything right". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 09:20 PM) No, nice try, but as always with you, no. What we "essentially" have here is the "same group" who have only managed to assemble a "playoff team" in two of the thirteen years they've been at this thing, and not one "playoff team" for seven years in a row now. It's that deplorable record of achievement, or lack thereof, that has most of us concluding they are "incapable of doing anything right". Same Group? I do not think it means what you think it means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 03:20 AM) No, nice try, but as always with you, no. What we "essentially" have here is the "same group" who have only managed to assemble a "playoff team" in two of the thirteen years they've been at this thing, and not one "playoff team" for seven years in a row now. It's that deplorable record of achievement, or lack thereof, that has most of us concluding they are "incapable of doing anything right". and in that time there really isn't any accountability .... before we, the fans can look and point the finger at KW. now the sox have put another person in charge, were those moves, all of those moves his??? who knows, there is no guarantee source of who was the deciding factor.... so in a place of that, there is one common element, the owner. it starts and ends there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 12:00 PM) Higher then I expected tbh. But we fell 28 spots. Big tumble. More at link: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13830149...t-losing-season Curious who were the four teams in professional sports with worse coaching? And that's with Don Cooper, supposedly one of the best pitching coaches in baseball. What does that say about the rest of the staff? Where were the Cubs, Royals, Twins, Tigers and Indians ranked in this coaching stat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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