White Sox ranked 85th out of 122 major sports franchises

[Chicago White Sox]

Great post, but it's too bad this board ridicules people for supporting the Cubs for whatever reason. In reality, we're better off encouraging baseball discussion instead of calling people "f***ing idiots" for being happy for the Cubs. For example:

 

 

 

Not only is the post complete garbage (There is enough support from both sides of town to support two successful teams), it's not a good look for the White Sox fanbase and it's not a good look for this board. A number of us love the game and love the White Sox and don't need to justify who we support and what we watch otherwise. I'm here to discuss the White Sox (no matter how abysmal they look) and the rest of baseball with people from similar upbringings and interests. We should not ever question the White Sox fandom of a person because we are not to judge.

Lol...you actually suggested that the Cubs winning the World Series could bring out more Sox fans next year. That has to be one of the dumbest theories in Soxtalk history and proves how out of touch you are with the Chicago sports scene.

 

I will stand by what I said, any Sox fan wanting the Cubs to win a World Series is a f***ing idiot. Our fanbase is incredibly small considering the size of the Chicago market and will continue to shrink if the Cubs win a World Series and/or go on an extended run of success. How many lifelong Blackhawks fans have been born during their recent mini-dynasty? Why would the Cubs, second only to the Bears in Chicago, be any different? There are thousands of young, impressionable fans looking for a team to invest in and an elite Cubs club is a pretty attractive option. A portion of these fans will go on to become season ticket holders and ultimately a critical source of revenue. Beyond these long-term implications, the Sox have a TV deal that expires in 2019. The new TV contract is of incredible importance to our organization's ability to compete in the mid-term, so it's absolutely critical that the front office build up interest/viewership in the team between now and then. If you actually think strong Cubs ratings don't have a direct impact on our own, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

By the way, get off your high horse. I've seen you spew this "bad look" s*** in multiple threads involving a variety of subjects. My rant, if you want to call it that, has zero impact on the fanbase or board's image. The simple notion that it somehow does is beyond laughable. For someone who claims "we are not to judge", you sure do like to call people out on a regular basis.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Chicago White Sox

[caulfield12]

Actually, I feel depressed that I have to live vicariously through other teams in the post-season.

 

I guess a "true fan" of one specific team will just tune out completely, but a lot of us love baseball so much that we still are interested in some way, shape or form.

 

We'd all wish to have the same excitement back from 2005 and 2008 that Cubs fans are experiencing now. Part of it might be jealousy, part of it's simply the joy of experiencing something incomparable to any other feeling that can't be substituted through other sports.

 

All of us can watch the NCAA Tourney, enter the pools (for fun or money), attend a Super Bowl Sunday party, watch night after night of bowl games, but it's just not the same as baseball for me. (That will probably change if Iowa gets through Big 10 play unscathed...but the odds of a national championship coming out of state like Iowa in this present era of college football is basically one in a thousand or million).

 

 

Actually, I'm sure I annoy some on here when I post anything positive about the Royals, but it's simply another version of being a fan because of the fact that I lived there and attended lots of Sox/Royals games from 1996-2005 and 2006-07 when the Royals were absolutely terrible and would organize protests against the "evil Yankees' Empire" whenever NY came to town.

 

The pure baseball fan in me will always enthusiastically embrace these underdog/small market success stories, along with the Astros, the Rays, the Twins, the A's, the Pirates...and wishes more of the lessons from these organizations would start to permeate the White Sox culture. Or the Mets even (another second or weaker sister in a bigger market), building around a young pitching core and supplementing it with veterans and rookies.

 

And then, finally, I love to watch superstars. Doesn't matter if it's Puig (if you can call him that anymore), or Correa, or Harper or Trout or young phenoms on the pitching side. I'll never forget Dwight Gooden's rookie year, for example, when I would go out of my way to watch him whenever the game was on...usually ESPN or against the Braves or Cubs.

 

I think it's fair to say that with Bryant, Schwarber, Rizzo, Russell and Soler all raking together as a unit, at that age...it's pretty damned impressive. Sure, the wind was blowing out...and they might not become a juggernaut, someone like Arrieta or Lester could easily go down to injury just like Wood and Prior a decade ago, but it surely would be fun to be a Cubs fan right now. Just look at the number of posts in that Cubs/Cardinals thread, there's obviously this huge hunger or desire on the part of Sox fans to have something to cheer for OR, at the very least, against.

 

For our part, the best young hitters we've brought in, like Viciedo, Beckham and Avi Garcia, have all been huge disappointments. You can also add Dunn, LaRoche, Borchard, Anderson, Fields, etc. Not to mention draftees like Jared Mitchell and K.Walker as well (hopefully Thompson, Anderson and Hawkins somehow make it).

 

So thank god for Abreu and Eaton to a lesser extent, or Sox baseball from an offensive standpoint would really be unwatchable.

Edited October 14, 2015 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Lol...you actually suggested that the Cubs winning the World Series could bring out more Sox fans next year. That has to be one of the dumbest theories in Soxtalk history and proves how out of touch you are with the Chicago sports scene.

 

I will stand by what I said, any Sox fan wanting the Cubs to win a World Series is a f***ing idiot. Our fanbase is incredibly small considering the size of the Chicago market and will continue to shrink if the Cubs win a World Series and/or go on an extended run of success. How many lifelong Blackhawks fans have been born during their recent mini-dynasty? Why would the Cubs, second only to the Bears in Chicago, be any different? There are thousands of young, impressionable fans looking for a team to invest in and an elite Cubs club is a pretty attractive option. A portion of these fans will go on to become season ticket holders and ultimately a critical source of revenue. Beyond these long-term implications, the Sox have a TV deal that expires in 2019. The new TV contract is of incredible importance to our organization's ability to compete in the mid-term, so it's absolutely critical that the front office build up interest/viewership in the team between now and then. If you actually think strong Cubs ratings don't have a direct impact on our own, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

By the way, get off your high horse. I've seen you spew this "bad look" s*** in multiple threads involving a variety of subjects. My rant, if you want to call it that, has zero impact on the fanbase or board's image. The simple notion that it somehow does is beyond laughable. For someone who claims "we are not to judge", you sure do like to call people out on a regular basis.

 

I'll only say two things.

 

Bandwagon fans of any "hot" or trendy/popular team in ANY sport suck. Doesn't matter if it's Florida Gulf Coast, Butler, VCU, George Mason or the Cubs/Astros/Royals/Mets.

 

Two, the biggest problem with the current Cubs' resurgence is that will take almost all of the air out of the atmosphere for the Sox...90% of the coverage will go to the Cubs. We will be lucky to get 2-3 days of favorable coverage between now and Spring Training, IF we actually do something significant in terms of trades or free agent acquisitions.

 

There are only so many column inches in a newspaper or minutes available on a broadcast.

 

It will be almost like the White Sox don't exist, their scores or an Abreu/Sale highlight will get thrown in at the very end just to be "fair" and inclusive, but nothing short of a playoff run will get them any attention. Not even bringing back Ozzie Guillen as manager. Well, maybe if Mike Ditka was named manager of the Sox, haha.

 

Going from a 60/40 split, or 2/3rd's:1/3rd versus 90:10 is going to really hurt this offseason, and we're already hurting as it is...it's like rubbing salt in the wounds, that the Cubs are doing (successfully) the same thing we haven't done until it was way too late (assuming we are actually planning to get younger instead of more veteran hitters).

[southsider2k5]

Loyalty is a two way street especially when you are dealing with a public trust. Baseball like business is a results orientated business. The results the last nine years speak for themselves. With MLB a nine billion dollar industry right now that's really the only thing the Sox don't have to worry about. They are making money rest easy on that score.

 

I have this mental image of JR (like Nero) fiddling while the Sox (like Rome) are burning to the ground... Not a pleseant image on many levels.

 

Mark

 

And this is why the White Sox don't have nice things.

[southsider2k5]

I think we do a disservice to casual fans.

 

I'd rather have a stadium full of loyal fans, than an empty stadium. That is way better in terms of being able to put a quality product on the field year after year. It makes it easier to sustain success and recover from failure.

 

Flailing year after to year to capture the "casual fans" is exact how we have managed for years now. The casual fans only need to look north to see what "disservice" they do to their baseball club.

[caulfield12]

And this is why the White Sox don't have nice things.

 

Or whenever they get an opportunity to have nice things, they completely mess it up.

 

Dunn

LaRoche

Shark

Avi Garcia

Beckham

Viciedo

Keppinger

Bonifacio

Cabrera

Downs

Davidson

Nestor Molina

Zach Duke

Brian Anderson

Josh Fields

Joe Borchard

McCulloch/Broadway/Ring/Poreda

Jared Mitchell instead of Trout

Kotsay/Jones instead of Thome

Danks instead of Buehrle

Etc.

 

[southsider2k5]

they're just citing historical examples that may or may not apply but obscure the crux of the argument.

 

 

Or whenever they get an opportunity to have nice things, they completely mess it up.

 

Dunn

LaRoche

Shark

Avi Garcia

Beckham

Viciedo

Keppinger

Bonifacio

Cabrera

Downs

Davidson

Nestor Molina

Zach Duke

Brian Anderson

Josh Fields

Joe Borchard

McCulloch/Broadway/Ring/Poreda

Jared Mitchell instead of Trout

Kotsay/Jones instead of Thome

Danks instead of Buehrle

Etc.

 

[caulfield12]

And whose fault is it the fans aren't loyal?

 

Does Nokia blame cell phone buyers, IBM computer buyers...do K-Mart, Sears, JC Penney and Montgomery-Ward blame its customers or themselves?

 

Did Apple blame its customers after Jobs was pushed out for a Pepsi exec and nobody wanted to buy their newest inventions?

I don't believe any CEO of a major corporation in the world would blame consumers for not consuming an inferior or fatally flawed product.

 

Did McDonalds blame Starbucks, Subway, Chipotle, In and Out, Panera, Five Guys?

Edited October 14, 2015 by caulfield12

[Panerista]

I'll only say two things.

 

Bandwagon fans of any "hot" or trendy/popular team in ANY sport suck. Doesn't matter if it's Florida Gulf Coast, Butler, VCU, George Mason or the Cubs/Astros/Royals/Mets.

 

Two, the biggest problem with the current Cubs' resurgence is that will take almost all of the air out of the atmosphere for the Sox...90% of the coverage will go to the Cubs. We will be lucky to get 2-3 days of favorable coverage between now and Spring Training, IF we actually do something significant in terms of trades or free agent acquisitions.

 

There are only so many column inches in a newspaper or minutes available on a broadcast.

 

It will be almost like the White Sox don't exist, their scores or an Abreu/Sale highlight will get thrown in at the very end just to be "fair" and inclusive, but nothing short of a playoff run will get them any attention. Not even bringing back Ozzie Guillen as manager. Well, maybe if Mike Ditka was named manager of the Sox, haha.

 

Going from a 60/40 split, or 2/3rd's:1/3rd versus 90:10 is going to really hurt this offseason, and we're already hurting as it is...it's like rubbing salt in the wounds, that the Cubs are doing (successfully) the same thing we haven't done until it was way too late (assuming we are actually planning to get younger instead of more veteran hitters).

But the formula is so simple. Make a splash in the postseason, draft well, and when the season starts win baseball games. Don't worry about the Cubs.

[Panerista]

I'd rather have a stadium full of loyal fans, than an empty stadium. That is way better in terms of being able to put a quality product on the field year after year. It makes it easier to sustain success and recover from failure.

 

Flailing year after to year to capture the "casual fans" is exact how we have managed for years now. The casual fans only need to look north to see what "disservice" they do to their baseball club.

Right, but no strategy works when you team is consistently awful.

[Hatchetman]

Baseball's a business like any other. Have an enticing product and people will want it.

[southsider2k5]

And whose fault is it the fans aren't loyal?

 

Does Nokia blame cell phone buyers, IBM computer buyers...do K-Mart, Sears, JC Penney and Montgomery-Ward blame its customers or themselves?

 

Did Apple blame its customers after Jobs was pushed out for a Pepsi exec and nobody wanted to buy their newest inventions?

I don't believe any CEO of a major corporation in the world would blame consumers for not consuming an inferior or fatally flawed product.

 

Did McDonalds blame Starbucks, Subway, Chipotle, In and Out, Panera, Five Guys?

 

It would be different if we didn't have an example of it right here in Chicago.

[southsider2k5]

Right, but no strategy works when you team is consistently awful.

 

Except it does for a franchise that you are actively rooting for right now.

[shysocks]

It would be different if we didn't have an example of it right here in Chicago.

Every time this topic comes up you pretend the Cubs aren't an anomaly. Stop it.

[Lip Man 1]

Well at least Southside is consistent in his beliefs. I have to give him that. I think from a historical perspective he's dead wrong but he's entitled to his opinion of blaming completely White Sox fans for the state of the franchise particularly the past nine years.

 

Mark

[Dick Allen]

What many people are missing is the teams they want the Sox to be like, the Cubs, the Pirates, the Royals, the Astros, were consistently awful for a very, very, very long time.

[OmarComing25]

Right, but no strategy works when you team is consistently awful.

I was born in 1990, the last three years have been awful but from 1990-2012 I would hardly call the White Sox consistently awful. We were at worst consistently mediocre. And the franchises you're praising right now were consistently awful for long stretches of time.

[Lip Man 1]

I agree with some of the points being made including regarding the Cubs but...you also have to consider this.

 

In 35 years the Cubs have made the playoffs now, what eight times? That's not good but it's a lot better than the Sox' five times in that same span.

 

If the Cubs are bad historically (and they are) what does that stat say about the Sox franchise?

 

Just wondering.

 

Mark

[southsider2k5]

I agree with some of the points being made including regarding the Cubs but...you also have to consider this.

 

In 35 years the Cubs have made the playoffs now, what eight times? That's not good but it's a lot better than the Sox' five times in that same span.

 

If the Cubs are bad historically (and they are) what does that stat say about the Sox franchise?

 

Just wondering.

 

Mark

 

It is 7 including this year. 6 before this year, to the White Sox five, and were still outdrawing this franchise by one million fans in 2014. They were still outdrawing them when we were in first place, and they were having their worst season in almost 50 years.

 

All you have done is prove my point.

[Panerista]

Except it does for a franchise that you are actively rooting for right now.

It's been said before but the Cubs are an anomaly. There is statistical evidence that suggests that the Cubs are the only team which draws in correlation with the price of beer, not wins and losses.

[Quin]

If anyone thinks the Cubs don't play by a different set of rules...they're wrong.

[shysocks]

I agree with some of the points being made including regarding the Cubs but...you also have to consider this.

 

In 35 years the Cubs have made the playoffs now, what eight times? That's not good but it's a lot better than the Sox' five times in that same span.

 

If the Cubs are bad historically (and they are) what does that stat say about the Sox franchise?

 

Just wondering.

 

Mark

In some ways it's fair to judge baseball seasons as a binary - either you made the playoffs or you didn't. In most ways, though, it doesn't tell the full story.

 

In the last 35 seasons the Sox have the 10th best winning percentage in baseball. The Cubs are 23rd. Three teams below them have been expansion teams in this era. Only the Pirates, Royals, and Mariners have lost more games.

 

The Sox deserve a lot more credit than they get for not bottoming out (before the last few years, of course).

[OmarComing25]

Cubs have also averaged 85 losses a season over the last 35 years, and despite that were still able to consistently draw fans.

[Panerista]

Cubs have also averaged 85 losses a season over the last 35 years, and despite that were still able to consistently draw fans.

What other team has cracked their model?

[Hatchetman]

when JR bought the team, the Cubs and Sox were pretty much equals in the city.