Team Construction

[SCCWS]

I watched a decent amount of the Cubs/Cards series. This was my first look at the Cubs all season. My observations based on this series is that the Cubs resurgence is having good offense, good defense, good starting pitching( but aged) and a good bullpen. I have seen Maddon for many years both in Tampa as well as living in New England and watching the Red Sox. I think he is a very good manager.

 

Can the White Sox make a turnaround like the Cubs did?? The White Sox have very good starting pitching( also young), below average offense and defense and I think w Jones back a good bullpen. I think Ventura needs to go. Looking at the Cubs roster, the Sox are really behind offensively.the Cubs have a solid group of 4-6 young position players. We may only have a couple in Abreu and Eaton. I have no clue what the Cubs have in the minors for pitching coming up but the Sox have limited offense on the horizon. So I think the White Sox will move either Q or Rodon and try and get 2 solid players back in return. That would weaken our SP to good but would be a big step in getting the offense and hopefully the defense improved. I don't see him trading w the Cubs but there will be plenty of trade partners for Hahn.

 

I was glad to see Theo go as I hate the Red Sox. But I do admire the work he has done to assemble teams in Boston and now Chicago. Hopefully Hahn is able to do the same. Theo tended to struggle finding pitching in the draft w Boston so they used trades and FA to build staffs. But he always found offensive talent. It looks like the Cubs are taking the same approach.

 

Cubs, Red Sox, Tigers, Indians , Astros, Cards etc all have added young studs in the infield the last few years. The White Sox have to make a smart trade and get a couple of studs for one of their young stud pitchers

[Rowand44]

I watched a decent amount of the Cubs/Cards series. This was my first look at the Cubs all season. My observations based on this series is that the Cubs resurgence is having good offense, good defense, good starting pitching( but aged) and a good bullpen. I have seen Maddon for many years both in Tampa as well as living in New England and watching the Red Sox. I think he is a very good manager.

So your observation is the reason that they're good is because they're good in every aspect of the game?

[LDF]

I watched a decent amount of the Cubs/Cards series. This was my first look at the Cubs all season. My observations based on this series is that the Cubs resurgence is having good offense, good defense, good starting pitching( but aged) and a good bullpen. I have seen Maddon for many years both in Tampa as well as living in New England and watching the Red Sox. I think he is a very good manager.

 

Can the White Sox make a turnaround like the Cubs did?? The White Sox have very good starting pitching( also young), below average offense and defense and I think w Jones back a good bullpen. #1 --- I think Ventura needs to go. Looking at the Cubs roster, the Sox are really behind offensively.the Cubs have a solid group of 4-6 young position players. We may only have a couple in Abreu and Eaton. I have no clue what the Cubs have in the minors for pitching coming up but the Sox have limited offense on the horizon. So I think the White Sox will move either Q or Rodon and try and get 2 solid players back in return. That would weaken our SP to good but would be a big step in getting the offense and hopefully the defense improved. I don't see him trading w the Cubs but there will be plenty of trade partners for Hahn.

 

I was glad to see Theo go as I hate the Red Sox. But I do admire the work he has done to assemble teams in Boston and now Chicago. Hopefully Hahn is able to do the same. Theo tended to struggle finding pitching in the draft w Boston so they used trades and FA to build staffs. But he always found offensive talent. It looks like the Cubs are taking the same approach.

 

Cubs, Red Sox, Tigers, Indians , Astros, Cards etc all have added young studs in the infield the last few years. The White Sox have to make a smart trade and get a couple of studs for one of their young stud pitchers

 

ref the bold, the biggest problem the sox have and will continue to have is the favoritism that is ragging in the FO. the owners favorite son |s| will never be let go. this is the best in the FO will do, no matter what comes.

 

 

[AlSoxfan]

ref the bold, the biggest problem the sox have and will continue to have is the favoritism that is ragging in the FO. the owners favorite son |s| will never be let go. this is the best in the FO will do, no matter what comes.

I don't think this team was good enough for us fans to point our finger at Robin an say it was his fault. While I didn't like how he used some of the players (LaRoche an others) or how bad the team started the season (which I think had something to do with our coaches and mgr.) I can't put the blame on Robin. I don't think any mgr. could of gotten us any more than a couple more wins at most, which by the way would have cost us the protected pick. The players themselves need to take responsibility for their sloppy play. Hahn made some good sound moves that didn't pan out for some reason. The stats all lined up for us to be a much better team than they showed. The team just didn't play good fundamental ball an I think thats on the players.

[LDF]

I don't think this team was good enough for us fans to point our finger at Robin an say it was his fault. While I didn't like how he used some of the players (LaRoche an others) or how bad the team started the season (which I think had something to do with our coaches and mgr.) I can't put the blame on Robin. I don't think any mgr. could of gotten us any more than a couple more wins at most, which by the way would have cost us the protected pick. The players themselves need to take responsibility for their sloppy play. Hahn made some good sound moves that didn't pan out for some reason. The stats all lined up for us to be a much better team than they showed. The team just didn't play good fundamental ball an I think thats on the players.

 

when i am talking about the sox favorite sons, i am referring to all of the ones that the owners keep around when other teams would have launch them.

 

i am not solely putting the blame on Robin's shoulders, but he is a contributing part of it.

[SCCWS]

So your observation is the reason that they're good is because they're good in every aspect of the game?

 

Yes, they are well rounde but not very good in any aspect. But the White Sox are very good in starting pitching. So they need to deal from strength to improve their weakness on offense. For example, if the Sox traded Rodon, Sale and Q are probably better than any 2 SP on most teams.

 

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Step one: Hire a professional manager.

[LDF]

Step one: Hire a professional manager.

 

while i like what you are saying, i will go this route,

 

step 1 hire a professional, experience president / gm with a track record of success.

step 2 let him convince the owners to loosen their purse strings.......

[lasttriptotulsa]

while i like what you are saying, i will go this route,

 

step 1 hire a professional, experience president / gm with a track record of success.

step 2 let him convince the owners to loosen their purse strings.......

 

Would you get off of this already? The White Sox spending is not the problem. They gave out $122.8 million in new contracts last offseason and somehow that's not enough for you? And not to mention that the majority of their core is locked up for at least the next 4 years. They had the 16th highest team salary in baseball despite being 26th in attendance. Do you really want the Sox to give out a contract like Scherzer got in which the Nationals are going to be paying him $15 million annually for 7 years after he leaves the team?

Edited October 14, 2015 by lasttriptotulsa

[LDF]

Would you get off of this already? The White Sox spending is not the problem. They gave out $122.8 million in new contracts last offseason and somehow that's not enough for you? And not to mention that the majority of their core is locked up for at least the next 4 years. They had the 16th highest team salary in baseball despite being 26th in attendance. Do you really want the Sox to give out a contract like Scherzer got in which the Nationals are going to be paying him $15 million annually for 7 years after he leaves the team?

 

so out of all these posters who post on the recurring item you choose....

 

unless you are the owner of this site, deal with it or block me.

Edited October 14, 2015 by LDF

[caulfield12]

Not to mention Miguel Sano and the Twins (yet another impact infielder at a premium position)....they finished exactly how we were projected to by most experts.

[Kyyle23]

so out of all these posters who post on the recurring item you choose....

 

unless you are the owner of this site, deal with it or block me.

 

The thing is, it is false. The white sox aren't cheap, they spend money. It doesn't matter which member says it, it is false

[BlackSox13]

RV and the FO are far from perfect but imo, the players should get most of the blame. I give the FO credit for their effort last winter in trying to put a contender on the field but in the end it was the players that s*** the bed. I highly doubt Maddon and the cubs FO would have made a difference with LaRoche, Gillaspie, Samardzija, Alexei, Avi and Flowers. It's on the players for not preforming.

 

Hopefully, RV and the FO have learned from this past season and get things back on track.

[kitekrazy]

Cubs got some deals that don't happen every day. As for the Cards they are a mystery as to what they do to sustain winning. Someone has mention before the Sox organization is very casual with no pressure. Players like it here. Maybe that's why they fold when there is any pressure. They way the season started you have to blame the manager.

This organization is a big joke to professional sports when you hire a manager by asking one with no experience who didn't even apply or interview.

 

The farm system still has the same people running it with no results. I'll settle for new ownership that makes the existing people have to interview for their job.

 

 

[Balta1701]

RV and the FO are far from perfect but imo, the players should get most of the blame. I give the FO credit for their effort last winter in trying to put a contender on the field but in the end it was the players that s*** the bed. I highly doubt Maddon and the cubs FO would have made a difference with LaRoche, Gillaspie, Samardzija, Alexei, Avi and Flowers. It's on the players for not preforming.

 

Hopefully, RV and the FO have learned from this past season and get things back on track.

I don't give the FO for trying and then using a strategy with an extremely high rate of failure. The accurate metaphor is trying to satisfy your retirement needs by putting the $100k you've saved up in the lottery. Then yelling "I totally tried to retire a millionaire!" Yes, you tried, but you didn't assess the fact that it would be surprising if that strategy worked. It might work if we try it again next year, eventually if you put $100k into the lottery every day you would win, but it might well take decades.

[Vance Law]

Step one: Hire a professional manager.

 

The White Sox won the World Series with Ozzie Guillen as the manager.

 

The manager doesn't matter.

[caulfield12]

Except everyone acknowledges Ozzie was a very effective manager (especially handling the bullpen and giving starters like Garland more rope than Manuel) in his first five or so years on the job. The biggest complaints were the Sunday line-ups and benching Anderson for Mackowiak in 2006. Maybe showing too much preference or deference to veterans vs. younger position players.

 

In the end, he was also right to put the brakes on the Beckham and Viciedo worship.

[Jerksticks]

I don't give the FO for trying and then using a strategy with an extremely high rate of failure. The accurate metaphor is trying to satisfy your retirement needs by putting the $100k you've saved up in the lottery. Then yelling "I totally tried to retire a millionaire!" Yes, you tried, but you didn't assess the fact that it would be surprising if that strategy worked. It might work if we try it again next year, eventually if you put $100k into the lottery every day you would win, but it might well take decades.

Yea but the plan was to supplement the development of Sale, Q, Eaton & Avi with some short term contracts to go for it. Avi blew hard and the FO needs to fix that. They sure thought he was going to break out this year, as did i, but it didn't happen. We probably would have been playing meaningful late September games if Avi didn't bomb.

[Vance Law]

Except everyone acknowledges Ozzie was a very effective manager (especially handling the bullpen and giving starters like Garland more rope than Manuel) in his first five or so years on the job. The biggest complaints were the Sunday line-ups and benching Anderson for Mackowiak in 2006. Maybe showing too much preference or deference to veterans vs. younger position players.

 

 

Ventura GREATLY improved the bullpen from 2014 to 2015.

[caulfield12]

You're giving Ventura more credit than Hahn for Albers, Robertson, Duke and Jones' recovery/health?

 

Also, it literally would have been impossible to be worse. And we still had a lot of blown saves.

[Vance Law]

I don't give the FO for trying and then using a strategy with an extremely high rate of failure. The accurate metaphor is trying to satisfy your retirement needs by putting the $100k you've saved up in the lottery. Then yelling "I totally tried to retire a millionaire!" Yes, you tried, but you didn't assess the fact that it would be surprising if that strategy worked. It might work if we try it again next year, eventually if you put $100k into the lottery every day you would win, but it might well take decades.

 

If spending money on free agents = trading in your 401K for lottery tickets, what is the analog for simultaneously holding onto your prospects and young players? Rodon, Fulmer, Anderson, Montas, Thompson, Sanchez, can we call them lottery ticket printing machines? Or are they gold bouillon? Blank checks?

[Vance Law]

You're giving Ventura more credit than Hahn for Albers, Robertson, Duke and Jones' recovery/health?

 

Thank you. You proved my point. With different better players, the Sox got better results. The manager doesn't remotely f***ing matter.

 

[caulfield12]

Thank you. You proved my point. With different better players, the Sox got better results. The manager doesn't remotely f***ing matter.

 

Not really...because Jennings was terrible, Petricka took a step or two back and the back end was bad.

 

We spent a ton on Robertson and Duke and became merely below average. Wasn't exactly efficient allocation of resources.

Edited October 15, 2015 by caulfield12

[Vance Law]

Wasn't exactly efficient allocation of resources.

Ventura should have allocated the resources differently?

 

Not really...because Jennings was terrible, Petricka took a step or two back and the back end was bad.

 

We spent a ton on Robertson and Duke and became merely below average. Wasn't exactly efficient allocation of resources.

 

"took a step back" is a silly thing to say regarding relievers whose performance varies more widely from year to year than any other players.

 

They signed Robertson, Duke, and Albers. Got Jones back. Got rid of Downs, Belisario, Linstrom, and Cleto and just like that Ventura had moved them from the #28 to the #15 bullpen in the game.

[bmags]

Looking at the lineups of the playoff teams it's a gut punch of how far we have to go. We have a bunch of players that we say "well they'd be good enough for that position", but that's what you say when you have 4-5 star players to offset the "good enough". You can't have good enough at every position!