Concealed weapons in college classrooms

[StrangeSox]

Another vote for violent assault on a teenager, I guess.

 

The teenaged girl who was violently attacked by a grown man suffered multiple injuries. She had also just recently been orphaned when her mom died.

 

Tex, what would be more disruptive to your classroom? Asking her to hand over her phone and then saying "we'll talk after class" when she refuses, or stopping instruction to make a huge scene out of it, eventually calling down administration and then the police?

Edited October 30, 2015 by StrangeSox

[NorthSideSox72]

http://kfor.com/2015/10/29/mans-post-about...top-goes-viral/

When I saw the headline, I thought this would be about Greg's traffic stop thread on SoxTalk.

 

[caulfield12]

When I saw the headline, I thought this would be about Greg's traffic stop thread on SoxTalk.

 

Greg is black and packs a Glock?

 

That might be one of the most memorable threads of 2015.

Edited October 30, 2015 by caulfield12

[NorthSideSox72]

Greg is black and packs a Glock?

 

That might be one of the most memorable threads of 2015.

What part of "when I saw the headline" wasn't clear? That's why it was funny.

 

 

[Chi Town Sox]

Plot Twist: Many kids (of all races) rallying in favor of Officer Fields.

 

http://www.wistv.com/story/30393934/spring...t-of-ben-fields

[StrangeSox]

man, those comments. Apparently the girl who was attacked is now a violent criminal who should be charged? So many excuses authority figures asserting their will violently.

[caulfield12]

man, those comments. Apparently the girl who was attacked is now a violent criminal who should be charged? So many excuses authority figures asserting their will violently.

 

 

Just like the girl this summer in her bikini at the swimming pool in Texas apparently...the same groups rallying for Fields must be the same ones posting comments at yahoo.com stories and backing Trump, Carson, Fiorina and Ted Cruz and now protesting MSNBC.

 

The GOP should actually be grateful for "red meat" to drive their fundraising totals for the next couple of months.

Edited October 30, 2015 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

Another vote for violent assault on a teenager, I guess.

 

The teenaged girl who was violently attacked by a grown man suffered multiple injuries. She had also just recently been orphaned when her mom died.

 

Tex, what would be more disruptive to your classroom? Asking her to hand over her phone and then saying "we'll talk after class" when she refuses, or stopping instruction to make a huge scene out of it, eventually calling down administration and then the police?

 

The least disruptive is following the classroom procedures, putting away the phone, and participating in class. Wow, get an education. But the student isn't wrong here.

The next least disruptive is following the teacher's directions. Wow, get an education. But the student isn't wrong here.

The next least disruptive (long term) is following the administrator's directions. Wow, get an education. But the student isn't wrong here.

The fourth least disruptive is following the directives from the cop. Wow, get an education. But the student isn't wrong here.

 

But we can't expect a student to follow rules. How dare anyone enforce any rules on kids?

 

Talk after class? And she continues to sit there and use her phone ignoring the lessons? You will eventually lose that classroom and have zero respect from your students. If she doesn't have to follow the rules why should anyone else?

 

What I did in that same situation when the student said, and I am quoting directly, "f*** you, you can't take my phone" (during a test). I let him sit in class. Then the next day I placed all the students into assigned seats, I made them put away all their ear buds, all their hats, and any other infraction I found. After a couple days I went back to my relaxed ways. But the peer pressure is working. But if he does the same thing a couple more times, I'll be writing him up regularly. If he continues to escalate do you really expect me to say "we'll talk after class?" What do you think he will say to me? I'm sorry? LOL

 

 

 

 

 

[illinilaw08]

The least disruptive is following the classroom procedures, putting away the phone, and participating in class. Wow, get an education. But the student isn't wrong here.

The next least disruptive is following the teacher's directions. Wow, get an education. But the student isn't wrong here.

The next least disruptive (long term) is following the administrator's directions. Wow, get an education. But the student isn't wrong here.

The fourth least disruptive is following the directives from the cop. Wow, get an education. But the student isn't wrong here.

 

But we can't expect a student to follow rules. How dare anyone enforce any rules on kids?

 

Talk after class? And she continues to sit there and use her phone ignoring the lessons? You will eventually lose that classroom and have zero respect from your students. If she doesn't have to follow the rules why should anyone else?

 

What I did in that same situation when the student said, and I am quoting directly, "f*** you, you can't take my phone" (during a test). I let him sit in class. Then the next day I placed all the students into assigned seats, I made them put away all their ear buds, all their hats, and any other infraction I found. After a couple days I went back to my relaxed ways. But the peer pressure is working. But if he does the same thing a couple more times, I'll be writing him up regularly. If he continues to escalate do you really expect me to say "we'll talk after class?" What do you think he will say to me? I'm sorry? LOL

 

No one in this thread has excused the girl's behavior. At what point is "forcibly pull her out of the desk and drag her across the floor" a reasonable response? If we are dealing with degrees bad behavior, the officer's behavior is significantly worse than that of the kid.

 

Sounds like you had a good solution to resolve a similar situation. I'll note that you did not call security to drag the kid out of the classroom....

[StrangeSox]

The least disruptive is following the classroom procedures, putting away the phone, and participating in class. Wow, get an education. But the student isn't wrong here.

The next least disruptive is following the teacher's directions. Wow, get an education. But the student isn't wrong here.

The next least disruptive (long term) is following the administrator's directions. Wow, get an education. But the student isn't wrong here.

The fourth least disruptive is following the directives from the cop. Wow, get an education. But the student isn't wrong here.

 

But we can't expect a student to follow rules. How dare anyone enforce any rules on kids?

 

Talk after class? And she continues to sit there and use her phone ignoring the lessons? You will eventually lose that classroom and have zero respect from your students. If she doesn't have to follow the rules why should anyone else?

 

What I did in that same situation when the student said, and I am quoting directly, "f*** you, you can't take my phone" (during a test). I let him sit in class. Then the next day I placed all the students into assigned seats, I made them put away all their ear buds, all their hats, and any other infraction I found. After a couple days I went back to my relaxed ways. But the peer pressure is working. But if he does the same thing a couple more times, I'll be writing him up regularly. If he continues to escalate do you really expect me to say "we'll talk after class?" What do you think he will say to me? I'm sorry? LOL

 

Read the actual story, tex. She had already put the phone away.

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

Yeah, basically the teacher didn't have the ability to do it, so he simply called security.

 

I'm sure she put the phone away before the officer arrived but then he felt for whatever reason he had to forcibly remove her from the classroom in the most confrontational way possible to make an example of her and also guards are often keyed up in the first place.

 

Not the best ones who the kids respect and who have a repoire with them outside of the classroom setting.

 

It's not unlike the neighborhood beat cops everyone used to know by name...back in a time when mutual respect was more normal and not the exception to the rule.

Edited October 31, 2015 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

I was speaking a little too broadly in my earlier post.

 

Obviously the cop made mistakes and did not have much experience in dealing with this situation. It is frustrating however to hear people totally blame the cop, teacher, and administrator for not knowing how to deal with this while casting the "student" as a victim. She is a victim because she felt the rules only apply to other kids.

 

I am generally thought of as the "chill, cool teacher, who makes kids laugh". I allow kids to sit where they like, turn in papers late without penalty, resubmit work until they earn the grade they want, snack in class, leave earbuds hanging around their necks instead of putting them away, have their cell phones out, listen to music while they are working, wear hats, etc. What I ask for in return is follow directions and do what I ask of you. One rule I have about cell phones is to ignore them while I am talking. I get very frustrated when I am explaining directions and kids are ignoring me in favor of their phones and when it is time to get started they ask "what are we doing"? So then I have to take time to explain just to them what we are doing. This takes time away from the students who listened.

 

Students love and follow my rules for about ten days or two weeks. Then, since I allow them to have their phones out, they start using them no matter what is happening. So when I ask a kid to please give me his phone and he says "f*** you", I get a little pissed. When I explain that language is disrespectful to everyone around him, he says who the f*** cares. Now if I ignore that and "talk to him after class" kids figure he got to do whatever he wants and there are no consequences. Then my class is the "cool class that you can do whatever you like and all the teacher will do is (laughing) talk to you after class.

 

My rules work for the vast majority of students, this year I imagine of my 180 students about five or ten are problems. However if I allow those five or ten to do whatever they want with only being "talked to after class" it will become fifteen or twenty problems, and by the end of the year I will have lost control of the classrooms. For me to have a "chill atmosphere" in my classroom, I have to make certain the few problem students are kept in check. I could see a situation where I would be calling an administrator or one of our on campus cops to remove a student. I can't just tell a student to leave, they must be escorted to a location where they can be supervised.

 

I also realize that kids come to my classroom with a wide range of problems. They are dealing with stuff that is really unfair to anyone, especially a kid. Adults have let them down. I believe the best thing I can do for them is make certain they earn a high school diploma and the knowledge and skills that go along with that. To make certain they do not do the same thing to their kids, they must be their own fathers and mothers. They need to be held to a higher, not a lower standard. They need the absolute best teaching I can offer. The kids who are born on third base and think they hit a triple will do just fine with mommy and daddy sweeping problems out of the way and offering all the advantages. Teaching those kids who rally against society the most to follow the rules is the best lesson I can offer.

[Texsox]

Yeah, basically the teacher didn't have the ability to do it, so he simply called security.

 

I haven't seen anything that talks about what all the teacher had done previously. Where did you find that? I'd like to know how many previous problems the teacher had with this student and her cell phone.

[caulfield12]

I haven't seen anything that talks about what all the teacher had done previously. Where did you find that? I'd like to know how many previous problems the teacher had with this student and her cell phone.

 

My assumption.

 

Having spent four years in exactly the same situation you're describing, you definitely have to pick your battles.

 

 

[Texsox]

My assumption.

 

Having spent four years in exactly the same situation you're describing, you definitely have to pick your battles.

 

MY assumption is this has played out several/many times before. I've never seen or heard this happening after only one instance with a student.

[caulfield12]

MY assumption is this has played out several/many times before. I've never seen or heard this happening after only one instance with a student.

 

I meant in terms of his not having the ability to get the student away based on a repoire he'd been able to develop with that student.

 

Maybe she was really a antagonistic or difficult.

 

But I'm sure you also rarely call security except for something bordering on a fight or dangerous situation inside or just outside the classroom in the hallway...or perhaps two girls with long hair and nails fighting, where it's nearly impossible to separate them.

 

Hey used pepper spray quite often in my school, especially in hallway skirmishes that bordered on going out of control.

[StrangeSox]

The cop is totally to blame for his own actions. She is a student, no scare quotes needed. She is a victim because she was violently attacked by a grown man. Stop making excuses for the adults 'failures.

[StrangeSox]

I haven't seen anything that talks about what all the teacher had done previously. Where did you find that? I'd like to know how many previous problems the teacher had with this student and her cell phone.

The girl is new to this school because her mother recently died and she's now an orphan in foster care. Other students said she's quiet and keeps to herself.

Edited November 1, 2015 by StrangeSox

[caulfield12]

The girl is new to this school because her mother recently died and she's now an orphan in foster care. Other students said she's quiet and keeps to herself.

 

Terrific.

 

She needs a social worker/counselor more than to be subjected to nationwide scrutiny.

 

Quite likely she was talking to a family member about personal business that's probably more important at the moment than school-related stuff.

 

Im guessing the teacher had no idea about all this.

Edited November 1, 2015 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

The cop is totally to blame for his own actions. She is a student, no scare quotes needed. She is a victim because she was violently attacked by a grown man. Stop making excuses for the adults 'failures.

 

I am not making excuses for the adults. You are making excuses for the student.

 

Sorry, she is to blame for her actions leading up to the cops being called in, just like the cop is to be blamed for his actions. She doesn't pull out her phone in the first place, and no problem. At several junctions she could have followed the rules but chose not to. Her actions contributed as much as anything to this being escalated into the mess it became. By losing site of the contributing actions we make schools even more out of control then they all ready are. The ignored three adults who asked her to follow the rules and comply with their requests. Allowing her to be blameless is a disservice to her. No wonder we are raising a generation with no regard to rules and laws.

[Texsox]

Terrific.

 

She needs a social worker/counselor more than to be subjected to nationwide scrutiny.

 

Quite likely she was talking to a family member about personal business that's probably more important at the moment than school-related stuff.

 

Im guessing the teacher had no idea about all this.

 

Or talking to a friend at her old school, ordering a pizza. We have no way of knowing. And it really should not matter.

 

Generally speaking

I have taught students who have been victims of every horrible thing you can think of. Having a close family member in prison was really no big deal. Basically raising themselves was the norm. Where are they going to learn about society and the expectations? These kids need structure and a familiar place that isn't as chaotic as their own lives. They need to know that adults care enough about them to see that they learn good habits that will get them through school and life. A wow, your life is really bad, do whatever you like and we'll hand you a diploma at the end does the child a huge disservice. They do not have good parents, in most cases they do not have any parents guiding them. What would good parents tell their child about following rules? Don't do it, defy the teachers and use your phone whenever you like no matter what is happening in class? That's your expectation for your kids?

 

[caulfield12]

Or talking to a friend at her old school, ordering a pizza. We have no way of knowing. And it really should not matter.

 

Generally speaking

I have taught students who have been victims of every horrible thing you can think of. Having a close family member in prison was really no big deal. Basically raising themselves was the norm. Where are they going to learn about society and the expectations? These kids need structure and a familiar place that isn't as chaotic as their own lives. They need to know that adults care enough about them to see that they learn good habits that will get them through school and life. A wow, your life is really bad, do whatever you like and we'll hand you a diploma at the end does the child a huge disservice. They do not have good parents, in most cases they do not have any parents guiding them. What would good parents tell their child about following rules? Don't do it, defy the teachers and use your phone whenever you like no matter what is happening in class? That's your expectation for your kids?

 

 

The key sentence here...care enough about them to see that they learn good habits...in order to do that, you actually need to care, literally, as well. It can't be fake or hypocritical care. It has to be consistent in all your actions toward the students.

 

Sometimes it sounds like we are talking about prisoners and not students in the education field.

[Jerksticks]

Just like the girl this summer in her bikini at the swimming pool in Texas apparently...the same groups rallying for Fields must be the same ones posting comments at yahoo.com stories and backing Trump, Carson, Fiorina and Ted Cruz and now protesting MSNBC.

 

The GOP should actually be grateful for "red meat" to drive their fundraising totals for the next couple of months.

Oh my god man. Please tell me this was sarcastic. You can't honestly consider yourself an adult saying such things.

[caulfield12]

I really am starting to wonder how many adults there are when 50% of the GOP is currently supporting candidates with basically no platform except "sticking it to the man" and not being politically correct but saying whatever first comes into one's mind without any filter or forethought.

 

Of course, in this case, it's even more ironic because the man isn't "liberal Democrats" or hedge fund managers but the majority of the middle class who will suffer as a result from misguided policies.

 

Do we really want someone like Trump or Carson or even Fiorina with the nuclear codes?

[DrunkBomber]

I really am starting to wonder how many adults there are when 50% of the GOP is currently supporting candidates with basically no platform except "sticking it to the man" and not being politically correct but saying whatever first comes into one's mind without any filter or forethought.

 

Of course, in this case, it's even more ironic because the man isn't "liberal Democrats" or hedge fund managers but the majority of the middle class who will suffer as a result from misguided policies.

 

Do we really want someone like Trump or Carson or even Fiorina with the nuclear codes?

What does this have to do with the topic of this thread though?