State of the White Sox Address a Position

[rowand's rowdies]

I think it would be cool to hear everyone give their own "State of the Union" address about each position.

 

Speak to your knowledge and give your thoughts on the current players, potential additions, bench & minor league depth, theory or anything really.

 

What would you do in 2016? Who would you keep? Who would you trade? How much would you eat on a trade? Expected trade return? Cut candidates?

 

Let's start with Starting Pitching.

[Jerksticks]

I'll take a poke at shortstop. I think it's pretty fair to say Alexei was awful with the bat this year. His D is damn good even if it's declining, still damn good. I'm totally impressed with Saladino's makeup on the defensive end of the game. He just GETS IT. He's fluid and fun to watch, a true baseball player.

 

The question is his bat, and after Alexei's year, I feel like it would be hard for him to hit much worse. So for me, it's a no-brainer when you figure in the $9M in savings.

[greg775]

I'll take a poke at shortstop. I think it's pretty fair to say Alexei was awful with the bat this year. His D is damn good even if it's declining, still damn good. I'm totally impressed with Saladino's makeup on the defensive end of the game. He just GETS IT. He's fluid and fun to watch, a true baseball player.

 

The question is his bat, and after Alexei's year, I feel like it would be hard for him to hit much worse. So for me, it's a no-brainer when you figure in the $9M in savings.

 

You asked about starting pitching. I'm not crazy about having 4 lefties, that's the only reason we probably shouldn't go after Buehrle. Too many lefties.

We've got Sale now, Rodon, Q, Danks and Johnson. We need to acquire a veteran righty and get rid of Danks. I love Johnny but he's not an effective starter anymore. He is capable of getting guys out so he should be a useful bullpen piece. I don't care how much money he's making. Put him in the old Thornton role. Sox definitely have to acquire a veteran righty from somewhere.

As far as bullpen, we need some consistency. Our bullpen overall blows. Robertson is a good enough closer but he is going to fail a bunch. I have no problems though with him closing as long as you accept the fact he's good, not great by any means.

After him, we basically have zero reliable relievers.

I'd love to get rid of Duke, Petricka, Putnam, Jennings, Albers, Webb and keep Montas and Nate even though I'm not a Nate fan.

I'd like to see Danks become a reliever. That probably will never happen. Our bullpen is like our team. It overall sucks and is a big reason we finished 9 under .500. It's totally unreliable.

So in conclusion I'd love to start three righties and two lefties in a perfect world. I'd love to have a MUCH BETTER bullpen.

[glangon]

Regarding Starting Pitching and starting pitching only, I think we have a solid base to build on and its probably the strength of the Organisation.

 

If things remain as they are, we will probably run with Sale, Q, Danks, Rodon and Johnson as the rotation with Montas, Beck, Danish and Fulmer all close to coming in to challenge for a spot.

 

To me we have a dilemma for this year. Do we trade away Q or move Danks into the Pen to give a better balance to the rotation and if this happens, do we bring up Montas or pick up a free agent like Scott Kazmir.

 

I think the Sox will be strong for years to come with a good depth of starting pitching and I'm hoping that we don't strip this bare to supplement an ailing offense.

 

I reckons that Starting pitching is our biggest strength at the moment

[Chicago White Sox]

I don't see us trading Quintana, because that creates a hole in the rotation that will be difficult to fill. A 1-2-3 of Sale, Rodon, & Quintana is critical if we want to compete in 2016/2017.

 

I could see us trading Erik Johnson in a package for a young position player and then going out and signing a veteran free agent like Latos or Fister to fill the #4 spot. Fulmer potentially being a mid-season call-up gives us the flexibility to go with a couple of veterans in the back of the rotation and trade some minor league pitching for offense.

[oldsox]

I don't see us trading Quintana, because that creates a hole in the rotation that will be difficult to fill. A 1-2-3 of Sale, Rodon, & Quintana is critical if we want to compete in 2016/2017.

 

I could see us trading Erik Johnson in a package for a young position player and then going out and signing a veteran free agent like Latos or Fister to fill the #4 spot. Fulmer potentially being a mid-season call-up gives us the flexibility to go with a couple of veterans in the back of the rotation and trade some minor league pitching for offense.

Latos? You want Latos? Gotta be kidding.

[SCCWS]

I don't see us trading Quintana, because that creates a hole in the rotation that will be difficult to fill. A 1-2-3 of Sale, Rodon, & Quintana is critical if we want to compete in 2016/2017.

 

I could see us trading Erik Johnson in a package for a young position player and then going out and signing a veteran free agent like Latos or Fister to fill the #4 spot. Fulmer potentially being a mid-season call-up gives us the flexibility to go with a couple of veterans in the back of the rotation and trade some minor league pitching for offense.

 

I do see them trading Q because they need to acquire a couple of impact young players and I don't think trading Johnson and "some minor league pitching" gets that. If they trade Q they also have to get back a 4-5 type starter along w 2 MLB ready position players. If not, you don't trade him.

 

As far as starting pitching goes, The Sox have to go into the spring with 6 starters ( last year Johnson was #6) . Too many pitching injuries occur these days. I see Sale-Rodon-Johnson Danks-FA veteran and Fulmer or Montas or trade acquistion as #6.

 

[COACH612]

I am a big believer that starting pitching gets you to the playoffs and the bullpen gets you through the playoffs. Why? Starting pitchers get tired in Sept.

That being said, the Sox have a very good starting rotation but as someone already said, they need an effective righty plus a more reliable bullpen.

However, without a much better offense, all the best starting pitching in the world will not win games. The Sox offense has been really bad for a few years now. Look at Q's number of no decisions. I hate to trade quality starters but without offensive help, none of it matters anyways. Look at the bottom half of the order. It sucked beyond belief. I am not saying go out and get a power bat like the busts they got in Dunn and LaRoche, but perhaps someone who can actually put the ball in play hard.

 

Just my opinion.

[Chicago White Sox]

Latos? You want Latos? Gotta be kidding.

What's your beef with Latos? The fact he had one bad year? That's exactly what makes him attractive, low acquisition cost but with big upside. He very well might suck again, but he's exactly the type of pitcher we should be targeting. There is no reason to sign a starter for more than one or two years given our pitching depth in the minors.

[Chicago White Sox]

I do see them trading Q because they need to acquire a couple of impact young players and I don't think trading Johnson and "some minor league pitching" gets that. If they trade Q they also have to get back a 4-5 type starter along w 2 MLB ready position players. If not, you don't trade him.

 

As far as starting pitching goes, The Sox have to go into the spring with 6 starters ( last year Johnson was #6) . Too many pitching injuries occur these days. I see Sale-Rodon-Johnson Danks-FA veteran and Fulmer or Montas or trade acquistion as #6.

I think a package built around Erik Johnson & Frankie Montas would be incredibly attractive to a lot of teams. Prospects are at an all-time high in terms of value, especially ones that are major league ready or close.

[Jose Abreu]

I'd roll with Sale, Quintana, Rodon, and Danks, with the 5th starter being Erik Johnson to start the season, but perhaps changing depending on his performance. Montas isn't ready yet.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'd roll with Sale, Quintana, Rodon, and Danks, with the 5th starter being Erik Johnson to start the season, but perhaps changing depending on his performance. Montas isn't ready yet.

I didn't get to watch Montas. How did he look? Statistically seemed decent.

[Jose Abreu]

I didn't get to watch Montas. How did he look? Statistically seemed decent.

He wasn't bad, but he needs to work on his control/limiting walks, as well as his efficiency. I'm not referring to his MLB starts, but this is a guy who rarely gets into the 6th inning in AA. I think he will be an effective relief pitcher, but not a starter.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

He wasn't bad, but he needs to work on his control/limiting walks, as well as his efficiency. I'm not referring to his MLB starts, but this is a guy who rarely gets into the 6th inning in AA. I think he will be an effective relief pitcher, but not a starter.

Ya he needs work. I've been checking his starts at AA. He's going to AAA I can just about guarantee that. It was still nice to get him some big league experience and for him to have some level of success is encouraging. I know he needs to work on his command and BB/9.

[southsider2k5]

I don't see us trading Quintana, because that creates a hole in the rotation that will be difficult to fill. A 1-2-3 of Sale, Rodon, & Quintana is critical if we want to compete in 2016/2017.

 

I could see us trading Erik Johnson in a package for a young position player and then going out and signing a veteran free agent like Latos or Fister to fill the #4 spot. Fulmer potentially being a mid-season call-up gives us the flexibility to go with a couple of veterans in the back of the rotation and trade some minor league pitching for offense.

 

I have said the crazy idea before, and I am going to stick with it. Sign Buehrle, trade Quintana.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

For s***s and giggles, what ya guys thinking in return for Johnson and Montas?

[Eminor3rd]

I'm not looking to trade any of them. SP is a strength, but the "depth" is overstated, IMO. Sale is elite, Quintana is a great #2, Rodon is a 3 with big upside, Danks is an overpaid #5 man in our #4 hole, and Johnson is a 4/5 with the upside of a 3. Behind that, we have Fulmer and some prospects that certainly have upside but that look like they are most likely going to be relievers.

 

1. You cannot assume Fulmer is ready as quickly as Rodon was, and even if you DO, you have to remember that Rodon pitched like a back-end guy most of the season.

2. If you remove Quintana from that #2 slot due to a trade, the whole thing suddenly looks very shaky. I think Rodon will become a strong #2 at some point, but it's very much a question mark if that happens this year -- he still struggle with command frequently and control almost as often, and he needs to learn to trust his fastball. And until he does learn to trust his fastball, we're not going to know if it has enough movement to be a big pitch. If it doesn't his control suddenly has to get really good. He's got work to do.

3. Remove ANY of them for a significant injury -- even Danks -- and you're in trouble quickly. You could argue we need to ADD a starter or two, at least of the "one-year pillow contract" type.

[caulfield12]

I'm not looking to trade any of them. SP is a strength, but the "depth" is overstated, IMO. Sale is elite, Quintana is a great #2, Rodon is a 3 with big upside, Danks is an overpaid #5 man in our #4 hole, and Johnson is a 4/5 with the upside of a 3. Behind that, we have Fulmer and some prospects that certainly have upside but that look like they are most likely going to be relievers.

 

1. You cannot assume Fulmer is ready as quickly as Rodon was, and even if you DO, you have to remember that Rodon pitched like a back-end guy most of the season.

2. If you remove Quintana from that #2 slot due to a trade, the whole thing suddenly looks very shaky. I think Rodon will become a strong #2 at some point, but it's very much a question mark if that happens this year -- he still struggle with command frequently and control almost as often, and he needs to learn to trust his fastball. And until he does learn to trust his fastball, we're not going to know if it has enough movement to be a big pitch. If it doesn't his control suddenly has to get really good. He's got work to do.

3. Remove ANY of them for a significant injury -- even Danks -- and you're in trouble quickly. You could argue we need to ADD a starter or two, at least of the "one-year pillow contract" type.

 

Estrada, Gallardo, Fister, Kazmir, Iwakuma, Latos

[Hatchetman]

I'm not looking to trade any of them. SP is a strength, but the "depth" is overstated, IMO. Sale is elite, Quintana is a great #2, Rodon is a 3 with big upside, Danks is an overpaid #5 man in our #4 hole, and Johnson is a 4/5 with the upside of a 3. Behind that, we have Fulmer and some prospects that certainly have upside but that look like they are most likely going to be relievers.

 

1. You cannot assume Fulmer is ready as quickly as Rodon was, and even if you DO, you have to remember that Rodon pitched like a back-end guy most of the season.

2. If you remove Quintana from that #2 slot due to a trade, the whole thing suddenly looks very shaky. I think Rodon will become a strong #2 at some point, but it's very much a question mark if that happens this year -- he still struggle with command frequently and control almost as often, and he needs to learn to trust his fastball. And until he does learn to trust his fastball, we're not going to know if it has enough movement to be a big pitch. If it doesn't his control suddenly has to get really good. He's got work to do.

3. Remove ANY of them for a significant injury -- even Danks -- and you're in trouble quickly. You could argue we need to ADD a starter or two, at least of the "one-year pillow contract" type.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. SP strength can go to weakness in a big hurry.

[southsider2k5]

I'm not looking to trade any of them. SP is a strength, but the "depth" is overstated, IMO. Sale is elite, Quintana is a great #2, Rodon is a 3 with big upside, Danks is an overpaid #5 man in our #4 hole, and Johnson is a 4/5 with the upside of a 3. Behind that, we have Fulmer and some prospects that certainly have upside but that look like they are most likely going to be relievers.

 

1. You cannot assume Fulmer is ready as quickly as Rodon was, and even if you DO, you have to remember that Rodon pitched like a back-end guy most of the season.

2. If you remove Quintana from that #2 slot due to a trade, the whole thing suddenly looks very shaky. I think Rodon will become a strong #2 at some point, but it's very much a question mark if that happens this year -- he still struggle with command frequently and control almost as often, and he needs to learn to trust his fastball. And until he does learn to trust his fastball, we're not going to know if it has enough movement to be a big pitch. If it doesn't his control suddenly has to get really good. He's got work to do.

3. Remove ANY of them for a significant injury -- even Danks -- and you're in trouble quickly. You could argue we need to ADD a starter or two, at least of the "one-year pillow contract" type.

 

I think the question is more like would you rather have a weakness in an area where you can traditionally build depth, or one where you can't? If being weak in starting pitching means we get back real position players for places like 3B and C, I am OK with it. Historically we have been able to turn out guys who can fill spots in the rotation.

[Knackattack]

I'm not looking to trade any of them. SP is a strength, but the "depth" is overstated, IMO. Sale is elite, Quintana is a great #2, Rodon is a 3 with big upside, Danks is an overpaid #5 man in our #4 hole, and Johnson is a 4/5 with the upside of a 3. Behind that, we have Fulmer and some prospects that certainly have upside but that look like they are most likely going to be relievers.

 

1. You cannot assume Fulmer is ready as quickly as Rodon was, and even if you DO, you have to remember that Rodon pitched like a back-end guy most of the season.

2. If you remove Quintana from that #2 slot due to a trade, the whole thing suddenly looks very shaky. I think Rodon will become a strong #2 at some point, but it's very much a question mark if that happens this year -- he still struggle with command frequently and control almost as often, and he needs to learn to trust his fastball. And until he does learn to trust his fastball, we're not going to know if it has enough movement to be a big pitch. If it doesn't his control suddenly has to get really good. He's got work to do.

3. Remove ANY of them for a significant injury -- even Danks -- and you're in trouble quickly. You could argue we need to ADD a starter or two, at least of the "one-year pillow contract" type.

I like what you're saying here but I think the assessment of Rodon is way off and saying Fulmer is most likely a reliever is pretty ignorant as well.

[Southwest Sider]

I think I agree with the sentiment of a few on here. For the Sox to acquire promising young players, they would have to deal from their position of strength. It is widely accepted that SP is that position.

 

However, just because it is our position where we have the most strength, doesn't really mean that it's a general position of strength. Who is ready to fill Quintanas shoes if we trade him for position players?

 

If you sign Buehrle, you cannot expect him to give you anything better then what a #4 starter would. But with the depth we wouldn't have by trading Quintana, he would become our #3, with Rodon at 2, Danks 4 and Johnson 5. Are we ready to put that kind of pressure on Rodon?

 

Further, what kind of depth do we really have at SP in the minors? Fulmer belongs in AA, there's a chance he could get promoted midseason if he dominates. Danish is probably slated to go to AA again, and probably have a better year. Montas seems like he's going to end up a reliever. Spencer Adams is probably going to AA, as well. There's a good chance we could have a hell of a AA staff next year, but they are not knocking on the door yet.

 

I am not comfortable, at all, going after organizational depth pitchers, or guys who had a bad year or two, or guys coming off of injury and expecting them to slide into the rotation. If they do, that's great, that's gravy, but you cannot have any of them penciled into a 1-5 spot going into the spring. They need to earn it.

 

Lastly, similar to Sale, I am not trading Quintana unless it is for a package of players that I want. We're talking at least a slight overpayment. Just like Sale, I do not see the White Sox getting offered a package that they want. They won't trade him just for the sake of trading him. Teams that really want a starter can turn to free agency first, and there are at least 4 desirable names out there. Knowing that you can't just trade Quintana and not have a capable replacement ready, I think the Sox best move this offseason, if they truly want to force a couple teams into a bidding war for Quintana, would be to sign Zimmerman or Cueto after the Price decides to sign with the Cubs and Greinke decides to stay in LA. You're hoping the bidding for Zimmerman or Cueto doesn't exceed Jon Lesters 6 year 155million contract, which I think the Sox would consider, but anything beyond that and the Sox are out and they keep Quintana.

 

Ultimately, there will probably be just too many suitors, and the bidding will get beyond what the Sox are comfortable with. There's also the possibility of a lateral move, maybe a team like the Mets wants to trade a right hander for a left hander to have some rotation balance. If that is a possibility, I think that would also be a great move.

 

I think the most likely scenario is that the Sox kind of stand pat with their rotation. Maybe they swap Danks contract for another and sign Buehrle.

 

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

I like what you're saying here but I think the assessment of Rodon is way off and saying Fulmer is most likely a reliever is pretty ignorant as well.

 

I... didn't say that. I said we have Fulmer and a bunch of guys that look like relievers. If I thought Fulmer was a reliever, I would have just said "we have a bunch of guys that look like relievers" instead of explicitly differentiating him by name.

 

What's your "correct" assessment of Rodon, then? Pretty easy to throw "ignorant" around without offering anything of value yourself.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Eminor3rd

[Eminor3rd]

Estrada, Gallardo, Fister, Kazmir, Iwakuma, Latos

 

Estrada, Gallardo, Iwakuma, and Kazmir are all set up for big multi-year contracts.

[OmarComing25]

Have to agree that we might overrate our SP depth. And I'm as excited about Rodon as anybody but with his control issues we should be careful before penciling him in as a top of the rotation guy for the future, a lot could still go wrong. This next year will tell us a lot about what we have (see if August/September Rodon is more like the Rodon we can expect than the first-half Rodon, see if EJ can get out ML-caliber hitters, see if Danish can improve his stock his 2nd go-around in AA, see if Fulmer is as ML-ready as we hope, see if Adams can take the next step, see if Montas has any future as a SP). To me, a possible Quintana trade might make more sense at the end of 2016 when we have more information about these guys.

Edited October 28, 2015 by OmarComing25