Two poll questions as we enter the offseason

[Dick Allen]

Alas, we don't have a Top 5 or Top 10 farm system to draw from despite six (going on seven) abysmal seasons in the past nine.

 

I seem to remember everyone (including Hawk) predicting how good they would be, it just took Hosmer, Moustakas, Cain and Gordon a couple more years than predicted to finally put it all together.

 

How many games under .500 was Epstein at the 3-4 year mark with the Cubs? Was he also inept because of all the losing? The Cubs at least were in the playoffs (twice) within five years of the beginning of his tenure. It wasn't a completely hopeless situation that every fellow GM advised him against the challenge and the very high probability of failure/career suicide.

 

It's funny, Hawk's a joke if he says something you don't agree with, but you use him as a source when it suits you.

[caulfield12]

It's funny, Hawk's a joke if he says something you don't agree with, but you use him as a source when it suits you.

 

I do trust him more as a judge and arbiter of pure baseball talent than Rick Hahn, so there's that.

[Kyyle23]

I do trust him more as a judge and arbiter of pure baseball talent than Rick Hahn, so there's that.

 

/end thread

[OmarComing25]

Alas, we don't have a Top 5 or Top 10 farm system to draw from despite six (going on seven) abysmal seasons in the past nine.

Define "abysmal". The Royals lost 95+ games SEVEN times from 2001-2010, with a 93, 90 and 91 loss season sprinkled in around there for good measure. That will get you loads of high draft picks. It's not like us winning 79 games in 2009 and 2011 or winning 76 games this year are giving us a spot at the top of the draft like the Royals occupied for the entire last decade.

Edited November 6, 2015 by OmarComing25

[Chicago White Sox]

Holy f***, another thread ruined with nonsensical Royals commentary. I appreciate the mods effort to curb it, but it's really starting to get ridiculous. Caulfield, you seem like a very nice & intelligent person, but for the love of God stop derailing every thread with the Royals propaganda.

[caulfield12]

Holy f***, another thread ruined with nonsensical Royals commentary. I appreciate the mods effort to curb it, but it's really starting to get ridiculous. Caulfield, you seem like a very nice & intelligent person, but for the love of God stop derailing every thread with the Royals propaganda.

 

 

Fair enough. But I also hope we don't have to read a stream of constant criticisms of White Sox fans as a primary excuse for why their team is being run so poorly. Basically, the idea that we should still loyally go out and buy tickets just because of 2004-2006 even though we're now a full decade removed from that time period.

 

Or that we have to adhere to others' conceptions of what is the model or ideal Sox fan.

 

For example, Lip has faced a lot of criticism here for speaking out honestly or in a "dark cloud"/pessimistic way. The idea we have to always be optimistic is equally annoying. If you follow Sox baseball at all, you know he's a true fan. And that's the only thing that matters, or should matter.

 

So, to summarize, I'm happy to praise the front office when they do something well, such as Abreu, Eaton or Rodon. On the other hand, Hahn hasn't provided many reasons for us to trust his baseball instincts, especially as it relates to the coaching staff (or we simply have to believe KW is meddling in every organizational decision and Hahn is willing to accept the same scenario that just drove AA from Toronto).

 

At any rate, the clock is ticking.

 

 

Back to our topic.

Edited November 6, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

Fair enough. But I also hope we don't have to read a stream of constant criticisms of White Sox fans as a primary excuse for why their team is being run so poorly. Basically, the idea that we should still loyally go out and buy tickets just because of 2004-2006 even though we're now a full decade removed from that time period.

 

Or that we have to adhere to others' conceptions of what is the model or ideal Sox fan.

 

For example, Lip has faced a lot of criticism here for speaking out honestly or in a "dark cloud"/pessimistic way. The idea we have to always be optimistic is equally annoying. If you follow Sox baseball at all, you know he's a true fan. And that's the only thing that matters, or should matter.

 

So, to summarize, I'm happy to praise the front office when they do something well, such as Abreu, Eaton or Rodon. On the other hand, Hahn hasn't provided many reasons for us to trust his baseball instincts, especially as it relates to the coaching staff (or we simply have to believe KW is meddling in every organizational decision and Hahn is willing to accept the same scenario that just drove AA from Toronto).

 

At any rate, the clock is ticking.

 

 

Back to our topic.

 

 

[OmarComing25]

Haha you think this board is too optimistic? A very large portion of posters have basically given up on the next 5 seasons. I see way more pessimism than optimism.

[caulfield12]

Haha you think this board is too optimistic? A very large portion of posters have basically given up on the next 5 seasons. I see way more pessimism than optimism.

 

 

Not speaking in generalities about the entire board.

 

Just the idea of judging others for their attitudes, attendance, basically all the aspects of how they follow the team...and then relating that back to blaming the fans for being stuck in a non-compete cycle because they're 1) too afraid to do a teardown and complete rebuild OR 2) too conservative/cautious to spend (let's call it investing for a future rate of return) 15-25% over budget for a couple of years and dump bad contracts in order to recoup that money 2 or 3 times over in 2019 with the negotiation for a new broadcasting rights package.

 

So we're basically stuck in that $120-130 "dead zone" where we're not terrible but not terribly competitive either due to overall weaknesses in the farm system in terms of position player replacements.

 

There are no easy answers if you look at the position they're in, despite many arguing last year's free agents misses and Shark wouldn't impact the future.

Edited November 7, 2015 by caulfield12

[GGajewski18]

I do trust him more as a judge and arbiter of pure baseball talent than Rick Hahn, so there's that.

 

Wait, what? lol

 

The guy that loves Gordon Beckham. The guy that said that we have one of the best OF defenses in all of baseball.

 

Stop it.

[Bob Sacamano]

Wait, what? lol

 

The guy that loves Gordon Beckham. The guy that said that we have one of the best OF defenses in all of baseball.

 

Stop it.

 

My thoughts exactly lol

 

[caulfield12]

And what has Hahn done as either an athlete or talent evaluator that makes you feel 100% confident he's the right person to be making these decisions?

 

Other than the Abreu signing, which we always hear was mostly attributable to KW and Paddy's efforts...

[LDF]

Not speaking in generalities about the entire board.

 

Just the idea of judging others for their attitudes, attendance, basically all the aspects of how they follow the team...and then relating that back to blaming the fans for being stuck in a non-compete cycle because they're 1) too afraid to do a teardown and complete rebuild OR 2) too conservative/cautious to spend (let's call it investing for a future rate of return) 15-25% over budget for a couple of years and dump bad contracts in order to recoup that money 2 or 3 times over in 2019 with the negotiation for a new broadcasting rights package.

 

So we're basically stuck in that $120-130 "dead zone" where we're not terrible but not terribly competitive either due to overall weaknesses in the farm system in terms of position player replacements.

 

There are no easy answers if you look at the position they're in, despite many arguing last year's free agents misses and Shark wouldn't impact the future.

 

all excellent points.

 

the key that you are missing is the cost of diminishing return on any investment, and the players and every contract is being considered an investment.

[LDF]

Wait, what? lol

 

The guy that loves Gordon Beckham. The guy that said that we have one of the best OF defenses in all of baseball.

 

Stop it.

 

so instead of trying to disprove this particular statement and post, you are trying to disprove him completely.

 

many on this site has made some bad calls but lets not try to dig up all those.

 

how many have you made???

[Dick Allen]

And what has Hahn done as either an athlete or talent evaluator that makes you feel 100% confident he's the right person to be making these decisions?

 

Other than the Abreu signing, which we always hear was mostly attributable to KW and Paddy's efforts...

Bruce Jenner won the decathlon almost 40 years ago. He was considered the greatest athlete in the world. Now that he has transitioned into Caityn, maybe he would like to give being a baseball GM a try. He really impressed the world,as an athlete.

[caulfield12]

all excellent points.

 

the key that you are missing is the cost of diminishing return on any investment, and the players and every contract is being considered an investment.

 

 

No, because the hundreds of millions of dollars in difference between playoff teams in 2018 and 2019 and our current situation going into a new negotiation...if you take a terrible team that has just traded Sale/Q/Abreu/Rodon vs. the positive vibes the Cubs have going now, who get's the lion's share of the broadcast rights money?

 

You have not only the state of the Sox to consider, but also the enhanced state of the Cubs fighting for those same media dollars.

 

Would you fork over premium prices for the team with the lowest viewership in the majors right now as a tv exec? Why?

 

 

[Dick Allen]

so instead of trying to disprove this particular statement and post, you are trying to disprove him completely.

 

many on this site has made some bad calls but lets not try to dig up all those.

 

how many have you made???

The problem is to Caulfield and a few others, the White Sox are to them what Obama is to Fox News. It doesn't matter what they do. If they do something it is automatically wrong. Just keep in mind, eceryone makes mistakes. I don't know if Hahn is a good evaluator or not, but he did get most of the credit for the Jose Quintana signing. We will see. The trades he has made so,e have been good, some bad. Most of his signings haven't worked out. Maybe a couple of them still might. But there isn't. A GM in baseball that hasn't made some moves he would like to have back.

[caulfield12]

Bruce Jenner won the decathlon almost 40 years ago. He was considered the greatest athlete in the world. Now that he has transitioned into Caityn, maybe he would like to give being a baseball GM a try. He really impressed the world,as an athlete.

 

That's a truly impressive defense of Rick Hahn.

 

Seems we can't come up with many positives about Ventura or Hahn, so this is the only alternative apparently.

 

 

The only thing we do know is that KW at one time was very good in talent evaluation and especially extracting surplus value in under the radar trades.

[caulfield12]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mlb-free-agen...WQDBHNlYwNzYw--

 

Here's the real story of how Quintana came to the Sox.

 

You have two scouts and then Dan Fabian before you even get to Hahn.

Edited November 7, 2015 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mlb-free-agen...WQDBHNlYwNzYw--

 

Here's the real story of how Quintana came to the Sox.

 

You have two scouts and then Dan Fabian before you even get to Hahn.

Are you really tying to discredit Hahn because he effectively leveraged his talent evaluators?

Edited November 7, 2015 by Chicago White Sox

[LDF]

No, because the hundreds of millions of dollars in difference between playoff teams in 2018 and 2019 and our current situation going into a new negotiation...if you take a terrible team that has just traded Sale/Q/Abreu/Rodon vs. the positive vibes the Cubs have going now, who get's the lion's share of the broadcast rights money?

 

You have not only the state of the Sox to consider, but also the enhanced state of the Cubs fighting for those same media dollars.

Would you fork over premium prices for the team with the lowest viewership in the majors right now as a tv exec? Why?

 

you will need to build to become better... whether that is tearing apart the whole team or continue with adding more pieces.

 

they can not stay as a status quo and do nothing.

 

also they have to have someone steering the needs of the team

[LDF]

The problem is to Caulfield and a few others, the White Sox are to them what Obama is to Fox News. It doesn't matter what they do. If they do something it is automatically wrong. Just keep in mind, eceryone makes mistakes. I don't know if Hahn is a good evaluator or not, but he did get most of the credit for the Jose Quintana signing. We will see. The trades he has made so,e have been good, some bad. Most of his signings haven't worked out. Maybe a couple of them still might. But there isn't. A GM in baseball that hasn't made some moves he would like to have back.

 

nice point.... i understand.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Are you really tying to discredit Hahn because he effectively leveraged his talent evaluators?

 

 

No, but I'm also not willing to give him all the credit in the world either unless he was the one personally responsible for bringing those three into the organization.

 

From virtually everything I've read of Fabian, I would rather have him as GM.

 

 

Obviously, there are going to be various shades or degrees (like when Don Cooper gets all the credit or no credit for the success of virtually every pitcher coming onto the big league roster and even some highly-ranked prospects).

 

Paddy and KW are the ones who personally scouted Abreu more than once, are they not?

Edited November 7, 2015 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

No, but I'm also not willing to give him all the credit in the world either unless he was the one personally responsible for bringing those three into the organization.

 

From virtually everything I've read of Fabian, I would rather have him as GM.

 

 

Obviously, there are going to be various shades or degrees (like when Don Cooper gets all the credit or no credit for the success of virtually every pitcher coming onto the big league roster and even some highly-ranked prospects).

 

Paddy and KW are the ones who personally scouted Abreu more than once, are they not?

What exactly have you read about Fabian that would make you want as GM over Hahn?

[Eminor3rd]

Fair enough. But I also hope we don't have to read a stream of constant criticisms of White Sox fans as a primary excuse for why their team is being run so poorly. Basically, the idea that we should still loyally go out and buy tickets just because of 2004-2006 even though we're now a full decade removed from that time period.

 

Or that we have to adhere to others' conceptions of what is the model or ideal Sox fan.

 

For example, Lip has faced a lot of criticism here for speaking out honestly or in a "dark cloud"/pessimistic way. The idea we have to always be optimistic is equally annoying. If you follow Sox baseball at all, you know he's a true fan. And that's the only thing that matters, or should matter.

 

So, to summarize, I'm happy to praise the front office when they do something well, such as Abreu, Eaton or Rodon. On the other hand, Hahn hasn't provided many reasons for us to trust his baseball instincts, especially as it relates to the coaching staff (or we simply have to believe KW is meddling in every organizational decision and Hahn is willing to accept the same scenario that just drove AA from Toronto).

 

At any rate, the clock is ticking.

 

 

Back to our topic.

 

It's got nothing to do with your opinion, it's that you are hijacking EVERY THREAD with it. Like we can't f***ing talk about Alexei Ramirez's option because "JR-conspiracy-futility-88-years-scouting-f***-Dayton-Moore-intradivision-record-RObin-Ventura-whatever"

 

Just add a disclaimer to your signature so that literally every thread can have text slobbing on the Royals, but we can tune it out and pretend it isn't there.