Two poll questions as we enter the offseason

[caulfield12]

What exactly have you read about Fabian that would make you want as GM over Hahn?

 

He's our Luhnow/Megdal.

 

Very experienced with advanced statistical analysis (he's the one who created our in-house proprietary database), but he also has a strong background behind the scenes in scouting and evaluation.

 

He's just not a self-promoter, seems like a very humble guy...works well with others behind the scenes to build consensus.

 

I don't have time to pull all of his interviews and write-ups, but he's impressive.

[Dick Allen]

He's our Luhnow/Megdal.

 

Very experienced with advanced statistical analysis (he's the one who created our in-house proprietary database), but he also has a strong background behind the scenes in scouting and evaluation.

 

He's just not a self-promoter, seems like a very humble guy...works well with others behind the scenes to build consensus.

 

I don't have time to pull all of his interviews and write-ups, but he's impressive.

LMAO. He has been around forever. i mentioned Dan Fabian many moons ago when you were ranting about how the White Sox don't use advanced metrics. I am glad you learned something.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

He's our Luhnow/Megdal.

 

Very experienced with advanced statistical analysis (he's the one who created our in-house proprietary database), but he also has a strong background behind the scenes in scouting and evaluation.

 

He's just not a self-promoter, seems like a very humble guy...works well with others behind the scenes to build consensus.

 

I don't have time to pull all of his interviews and write-ups, but he's impressive.

How is this different/better than Hahn exactly? Outside of the analytics background, most of the other items could be used to describe Hahn. Also, I don't need my GM to be able to conduct an advanced statistical analysis, I need him to understand the findings and leverage them in his day-to-day responsibilities. You really seem to be reaching here Caulfield. I think 99% of baseball people would prefer Hahn to be their GM.

[caulfield12]

LMAO. He has been around forever. i mentioned Dan Fabian many moons ago when you were ranting about how the White Sox don't use advanced metrics. I am glad you learned something.

 

No, I said they don't incorporate them into all aspects of operations...not unlike the Scioscia/Dipoto argument in LA.

 

Ventura and KW certainly have access to them, but it's not THE guiding principal of the organization, especially in terms of integrating their use into onfield decisions.

 

One area they have literally shifted has been with shifts...being in the bottom ten teams through 2013 and making the biggest jump up of any team in the majors in 2014.

 

By the way, what evidence do you have from conversations with KW, Bell, Hahn and Hostetler they use them for scouting and evaluation?

Did Laumann use them? Was he fired for not using them? We all know how old school Bell is, and KW's cut from the same cloth.

 

The irony is both the Braves (Schuerholz/Moore/presumably Nick Hostetler) have always prided themselves on scouting and using their gut instincts perhaps more than any team in the majors over the last 20-30 years.

[caulfield12]

How is this different/better than Hahn exactly? Outside of the analytics background, most of the other items could be used to describe Hahn. Also, I don't need my GM to be able to conduct an advanced statistical analysis, I need him to understand the findings and leverage them in his day-to-day responsibilities. You really seem to be reaching here Caulfield. I think 99% of baseball people would prefer Hahn to be their GM.

 

 

As with Ventura, what is Hahn really exceptional at?

 

Contract negotiations. Based on his Kellogg and Harvard Law background. That's clear.

 

Okay, what else?

 

It's definitely not media relations or being on the same page with KW the past 13 months or so.

 

 

Other than Abreu, Tim Anderson and Adams...where do you think he's made some really strong moves? Eaton for Santiago? Of all the free agents we have signed, Robertson is the only one that's been defendable in terms of actual results, and even that not so much since his best two years with us are being wasted...yet he wouldn't let NY take him back, either. Avi Garcia? Davidson? I'm not seeing many clear signs of success or progress. The only clear win trade of his entire tenure is Avi/Montas for Peavy, and even that's not looking 100% successful. If you believe most other GMs would have passed on Rodon at third, you can include that, or Fulmer this year.

Edited November 7, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

No, I said they don't incorporate them into all aspects of operations...not unlike the Scioscia/Dipoto argument in LA.

 

Ventura and KW certainly have access to them, but it's not THE guiding principal of the organization, especially in terms of integrating their use into onfield decisions.

 

One area they have literally shifted has been with shifts...being in the bottom ten teams through 2013 and making the biggest jump up of any team in the majors in 2014.

 

By the way, what evidence do you have from conversations with KW, Bell, Hahn and Hostetler they use them for scouting and evaluation?

Did Laumann use them? Was he fired for not using them? We all know how old school Bell is, and KW's cut from the same cloth.

 

The irony is both the Braves (Schuerholz/Moore/presumably Nick Hostetler) have always prided themselves on scouting and using their gut instincts perhaps more than any team in the majors over the last 20-30 years.

BS. I love how you think you know the pulse of the White Sox organization.

 

Just because it isn't reported on kansascity.com doesn't mean it doesn't occur.

 

And Laumann wasn't fired, he took another job in the organization. It is a semi retirement, and before you go all JR loyalty, just look at the drafts between 2010-2015 of the White Sox and the greatest most perfect organization ever. I urge everyone who reads this thread to look at them. The White Sox drafted players are far better than what your Royals drafted. The Royals better fire someone.

 

Dayton Moore scouting genius thought Christain Colon was a better idea than Chris Sale, thought Bubba Starling was a better idea than Sonny Gray, thought Kyle Zimmer was a better idea than Francisco Lindor.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

As with Ventura, what is Hahn really exceptional at?

 

Contract negotiations. Based on his Kellogg and Harvard Law background. That's clear.

 

Okay, what else?

 

It's definitely not media relations or being on the same page with KW the past 13 months or so.

 

 

Other than Abreu, Tim Anderson and Adams...where do you think he's made some really strong moves? Eaton for Santiago? Of all the free agents we have signed, Robertson is the only one that's been defendable in terms of actual results, and even that not so much since his best two years with us are being wasted...yet he wouldn't let NY take him back, either. Avi Garcia? Davidson? I'm not seeing many clear signs of success or progress. The only clear win trade of his entire tenure is Avi/Montas for Peavy, and even that's not looking 100% successful. If you believe most other GMs would have passed on Rodon at third, you can include that, or Fulmer this year.

Again, I didn't make the claim that the analytics guy would make a better GM than our current one. So I'll ask you again, what specific skills & traits does Fabian possess that Hahn doesn't? Why would he be a better GM?

Edited November 8, 2015 by Chicago White Sox

[caulfield12]

Again, I didn't make the claim that the analytics guy would make a better GM than our current one. So I'll ask you again, what specific skills & traits does Fabian possess that Hahn doesn't? Why would he be a better GM?

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/white-...ball-operations

 

He's smarter in terms of baseball knowledge (more years around the game and just sports in general) and a better person without any of the hubris/baggage we get with KW and Hahn trying to work together.

 

As long as KW is here, the relationship with Hahn will continue to be dysfunctional.

Edited November 8, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/white-...ball-operations

 

He's smarter in terms of baseball knowledge (more years around the game and just sports in general) and a better person without any of the hubris/baggage we get with KW and Hahn trying to work together.

 

As long as KW is here, the relationship with Hahn will continue to be dysfunctional.

You didn't even know he existed a year ago, now he knows so much. Well the good news is he is involved in just about every acquisition.

 

In fact, your link I believe is the exact link I posted when you went on your the White Sox don't use advanced stats bender. How come you didn't say he should be GM then?

 

Oh, BTW, David Glass said the Royals have no idea what they are going to offer Alex Gordon. How th f*** could they have no idea what they ar going to offer him at this point?

Edited November 8, 2015 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

BS. I love how you think you know the pulse of the White Sox organization.

 

Just because it isn't reported on kansascity.com doesn't mean it doesn't occur.

 

And Laumann wasn't fired, he took another job in the organization. It is a semi retirement, and before you go all JR loyalty, just look at the drafts between 2010-2015 of the White Sox and the greatest most perfect organization ever. I urge everyone who reads this thread to look at them. The White Sox drafted players are far better than what your Royals drafted. The Royals better fire someone.

 

Dayton Moore scouting genius thought Christain Colon was a better idea than Chris Sale, thought Bubba Starling was a better idea than Sonny Gray, thought Kyle Zimmer was a better idea than Francisco Lindor.

 

 

There's a key difference you're missing. The Royals invested heavily in Latin America and their various baseball academies. They got Salvador Perez for the price of a Honda Civic out of Venezuela. We had the most famous Venezuelan in the world a decade ago other than Chavez yet failed to take advantage by even having an academy down there when 10-12 other MLB teams were doing so.

 

Same with Yordano Ventura, Herrera and Mondesi, Jr. You can afford to make some mistakes in the draft when you have OTHER sources of talent at your disposal.

 

And the jury is far from out on Starling and Zimmer...unless you can predict right now with 100% certainty what all of those players will be doing in five or ten year's time.

 

Lindor looks great, and it would be nice if we could find more position prospects like him. Our Lindor, Gordon Beckham, didn't turn out so well after the league adjusted to him.

 

 

[caulfield12]

You didn't even know he existed a year ago, now he knows so much. Well the good news is he is involved in just about every acquisition.

 

In fact, your link I believe is the exact link I posted when you went on your the White Sox don't use advanced stats bender. How come you didn't say he should be GM then?

 

Oh, BTW, David Glass said the Royals have no idea what they are going to offer Alex Gordon. How th f*** could they have no idea what they ar going to offer him at this point?

 

Because they have to wait and see what other teams are offering first, and then make a counterproposal. Would it be better if they announced today they are willing to offer $60-75 million for three years with an option for Year 4 and/or performance based option based on some agreed upon set of statistical benchmarks?

 

They want to keep both Gordon and Zobrist, which won't be easy.

 

I think not announcing to the media their negotiation strategy for one specific player is different from Hahn and KW not being on the same page about what to do.

[Chicago White Sox]

SMFH, we've now gone from Dan Fabian should be GM to hyping up the Royals' Latin American operations. This is getting beyond ridiculous.

[Dick Allen]

Because they have to wait and see what other teams are offering first, and then make a counterproposal. Would it be better if they announced today they are willing to offer $60-75 million for three years with an option for Year 4 and/or performance based option based on some agreed upon set of statistical benchmarks?

 

They want to keep both Gordon and Zobrist, which won't be easy.

 

I think not announcing to the media their negotiation strategy for one specific player is different from Hahn and KW not being on the same page about what to do.

Really when they had exclusive negotiating rights? Certainly doesn't seem like a hometown discount is in order. Maybe he is remember how they f***ed with him early in his career.

 

You don't have to announce anything to the media but to say you have no idea what they are going to offer? Considering you ripped KW for making a similar statement about the White Sox off season direction, I am stunned you wouldn't find it as a sign the team is unprepared.

 

I will give you credit. Your posts make me laugh with all of their unintended silliness.

 

Maybe the next time the White Sox are in the market for a GM, they could hold some sort of combine. Get some 40 times, see how many times they can bench 200. I never knew until today, athletic ability is a quality a good GM should probably have.

 

Would you happen to know Dan Fabians vertical?

Edited November 8, 2015 by Dick Allen

[BlackSox13]

SMFH, we've now gone from Dan Fabian should be GM to hyping up the Royals' Latin American operations. This is getting beyond ridiculous.

I'm with ya.

 

May I offer you some popcorn?

 

[caulfield12]

SMFH, we've now gone from Dan Fabian should be GM to hyping up the Royals' Latin American operations. This is getting beyond ridiculous.

 

You notice that he doesn't have a response.

 

When the White Sox make draft mistakes, they're continually forced to bring in free agents that they can't afford to make mistakes on. Those mistakes fester and they're unable to dump them and move on, so the cycle repeats.

 

 

I'll just state this. The White Sox while KW and Rick Hahn are both forced to work together won't reach the playoffs...especially with Ventura as manager.

Edited November 8, 2015 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Really when they had exclusive negotiating rights? Certainly doesn't seem like a hometown discount is in order. Maybe he is remember how they f***ed with him early in his career.

 

You don't have to announce anything to the media but to say you have no idea what they are going to offer? Considering you ripped KW for making a similar statement about the White Sox off season direction, I am stunned you wouldn't find it as a sign the team is unprepared.

 

I will give you credit. Your posts make me laugh with all of their unintended silliness.

 

Maybe the next time the White Sox are in the market for a GM, they could hold some sort of combine. Get some 40 times, see how many times they can bench 200. I never knew until today, athletic ability is a quality a good GM should probably have.

 

Would you happen to know Dan Fabians vertical?

 

White Sox entire offseason direction vs. one player whose decision making they have little control over and who they already have a set of contingency plans to cover for, including Ben Zobrist.

[caulfield12]

Since joining the organization, Hahn has negotiated several multiyear player contracts, including agreements with current White Sox players John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Paul Konerko and Alexei Ramirez. Hahn has been credited with playing a key role in moves such as signing eventual Cy Young Award runner-up Esteban Loaiza to a minor-league deal prior to the 2003 season, the waiver claim of Bobby Jenks prior to the 2005 World Series championship season, the 2007 acquisition of Most Valuable Player-candidate Carlos Quentin, the evaluation and signing of 2009 Rookie of the Year Gordon Beckham, and the signing of 2010 first-round pick Chris Sale.

 

Source: chisox.com

 

 

Notice there's not much to talk about after Chris Sale. And hyping the Beckham deal...really?

 

 

 

"As a result, I don't believe that (White Sox Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf) is going to invest on the larger acquisitions," Williams said, referring to Abreu. "It's just been throughout the years that he wants me to lay my eyes on a guy, particularly if he's going to ante up to that degree. So I don't think we make that happen."

 

Williams said he's sleeping about seven hours a night as he's removed himself from the day-to-day grind of being a general manager. So if Abreu has a monster debut, you can probably thank the restructuring of the White Sox front office for making it happen on the South Side.

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/kenny-...sign-jose-abreu

 

Basically, JR still trusts KW more to identify and evaluate talent.

 

Edited November 8, 2015 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

Caulfield you make so much s*** up based on the articles you read it is simply incredible. Whole cloth

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Ugh I'm ready for acquisitions. Too much bickering like hens.

[caulfield12]

Caulfield you make so much s*** up based on the articles you read it is simply incredible. Whole cloth

 

 

All of the top-polling candidates for president do that intentionally and it doesn't seem to affect their standings with the American populace. In fact, it often enhances their status and they usually never get called on it.

 

Somehow my preference for a GM who was at least a varsity (starter) athlete at baseball, basketball or football was turned into my desire to have a combine with 40 times, bench presses, squats and verticals...but whatever.

 

 

So I'll ask again how many GM's have led their teams without ever having been a varsity starter in a major sport in high school?

[GGajewski18]

All of the top-polling candidates for president do that intentionally and it doesn't seem to affect their standings with the American populace. In fact, it often enhances their status and they usually never get called on it.

 

Somehow my preference for a GM who was at least a varsity (starter) athlete at baseball, basketball or football was turned into my desire to have a combine with 40 times, bench presses, squats and verticals...but whatever.

 

 

So I'll ask again how many GM's have led their teams without ever having been a varsity starter in a major sport in high school?

 

Joe Maddon never played baseball professionally and who cares if they were a varsity starter in a sport in HS? Lol, that's completely irrelevant.

Edited November 8, 2015 by SoxPride18

[Kyyle23]

All of the top-polling candidates for president do that intentionally and it doesn't seem to affect their standings with the American populace. In fact, it often enhances their status and they usually never get called on it.

 

Somehow my preference for a GM who was at least a varsity (starter) athlete at baseball, basketball or football was turned into my desire to have a combine with 40 times, bench presses, squats and verticals...but whatever.

 

 

So I'll ask again how many GM's have led their teams without ever having been a varsity starter in a major sport in high school?

 

How about the other GM you love to slobber about, Theo Epstein.

 

I don't see anything about Alex anthopolous either. Hmmm look at that two GMs that had their team in the playoffs this season

 

Hey look, nothing about Jeff Luhnow either, only that he was a well respected businessman before he entered the baseball world. Weird, 3 GMs that don't appear to have HS varsity baseball experience!

[Kyyle23]

Joe Maddon never played baseball professionally and who cares if they were a varsity starter in a sport in HS? Lol, that's completely irrelevant.

 

Discussion Relevance has never been caulfields strong point

[caulfield12]

Joe Maddon never played baseball professionally and who cares if they were a varsity starter in a sport in HS? Lol, that's completely irrelevant.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/pro...P=Joseph-Maddon

 

Obviously you've never worked around professional sports teams or with their players or you would know it's not irrelevant.

 

It's a large part of the reason Bill James, for example, could never be manager or GM for a team.

Edited November 8, 2015 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

How about the other GM you love to slobber about, Theo Epstein.

 

I don't see anything about Alex anthopolous either. Hmmm look at that two GMs that had their team in the playoffs this season

 

Epstein was born in New York City and raised in Brookline, Massachusetts.[1] He attended Brookline High School (a 1991 graduate),[2] and played baseball for the Brookline High School Warriors, but dreamed of working for the Red Sox. Epstein has a fraternal twin brother, Paul. The brothers founded a charity, The Foundation to be Named Later, in 2005.[3]

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb-news/46411...h-bend-single-a